C.J. Wiley VS Keith McCready - What's The Line?
- Thread starter HawaiianEye
- Start date
I would think Keith would need to play regularly for several months before he would have his best game back, whatever that may be at this time. He could still have a very high top end but he'd need to play within a timeframe where he was not at a distinct energy disadvantage versus younger competitors. Marathon ahead sets are probably not a good idea. I think Keith still has the knowledge and perhaps a wisdom and perspective he couldn't have as a young guy. Keith would have to work up the ladder to compete with players of CJ's caliber.
I'd love to see Keith playing at a high level again. He's one of the few guys I hung around during the early-mid 80's here in SoCal that I haven't seen since coming back to pool in 2001 after a 16 year much needed time out. I'm glad to hear he's doing well. Martin
I'd love to see Keith playing at a high level again. He's one of the few guys I hung around during the early-mid 80's here in SoCal that I haven't seen since coming back to pool in 2001 after a 16 year much needed time out. I'm glad to hear he's doing well. Martin
Yes, but the only events that have a significant worldwide audience are the World 9-ball Championships, the All Japan Championships, the China Open, the US Open, the World Pool Masters and the Mosconi Cup. Every last one of these is a Texas Express 9-ball event.
Boring to you is not, it would seem, boring to most who watch pro pool today.
Nonetheless, you are entitled to your preferences. The old version of the game placed a greater premium on making tough shots, but forgave more position errors, and allowed you to get by with less billiard knowledge and less defensive skill. It was more skillful in some respects and less skillful in other respects.
Texas Express requires a more comprehensive skill set and the players of today, as a group, are, skill-wise, a full cut above the generation that played it the other way. The switch came in the mid-1980's.
Not saying the greats back then wouldn't have been as good as or better than the greats of today, just saying that the switch to a game requiring more features has bred a more skilled group of players and that's a big part of why so many people play all the games well today when so few did back in the day. It's an observation often made by Accu-stats commentators.
If you feel that the players of the 1980's, as a group, were better players on average than those of today, you are the first I've ever heard that thought so.
i was lucky to see both these players play many times back in the day
and for anybody to say CJ on his best day was no where near Keith it is just not true
both of these guys were two of the best money players ever and both players had that
gear when on nobody could win two of the best of all time if some how we could go back
in time and watch them play at their best i am not sure who would win but i am sure it would
be one hell of a match
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I was at the old Hardtime in Costa Mesa during those same years. Keith was there almost every night. Keith was the best know player in Southern California. The only way to not see him was to be hiding out not looking to play him.
Nobody that I remember came looking for Keither with Either and took money out of Hardtimes that I know about. Billy Rat got the seven and even Tracey Joe Salazar, a truly great player got weight. Siegel may have amnesia but Keith gave him weight and won.
Smiley and I were good friends, I have not seen him since 1981. He was in El Paso Texas. He was from Coahuilla Mexico. I hope he is doing well. He was a truly great guy. He used to Play Dalton speed.
Old Nine Baller
Banned
The only particular "skill" that two-foul players may have lacked was kicking at balls when hooked, other than that I can't think of any.
The two-foul players knew how to make spot-shots and put the cueball anywhere on the table, they knew precisely where to pushout, they knew when to accept a shot or pass it off to the guy who pushed-out, they knew how to bank balls and because of this they frequently pushed-out to banks.
Comparing Texas Express players to Two-Foul players is like George Carlin comparing Baseball to Football:grin:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIkqNiBASfI
Good observation. :smile: Love the analysis, too. :thumbup:
Ron Swanson
Banned
Well said. How about drawing a line under the past and moving on?
There is too much self interest around here.
Love reading this. Thank you for sharing, Brandon.
Keith most definitely had the Stu Ungar-type personality during this era, and everybody who was around him was well aware of his capabilities, even when, well, feeling no pain, shall I say.
While most players were trying to get those tin cups at the tournaments, Keith couldn't wait for the tournament day to end, so he could get in action. He'd stay up all night long gambling and then have to show up for his match the next day with little to no sleep. Sometimes it would be a forfeit because the action match was still in progress when it was time for Keith's tournament match.
It's kind of comical reading some of the remarks written by people who really don't have the expertise or knowledge base in the pool world to make such comments. I used to come to the defense of the two-foul/push-out game compared to today's luck game of 9-ball, but it doesn't matter what I think or what anybody else thinks.
If you go back in time and ask those who were around, who saw some of the names mentioned in this thread play pool, you'd find out who the hustler -- I'm not even going to use the word "hustler" -- who the best money player was. Some of the names mentioned in this thread were lock artists and wouldn't play anyone for money unless they thought they had the edge. Keith, on the other hand, would play anybody, didn't matter who they were. :grin:
The trait of a true action man is one who can get action wherever he is and get a game with somebody who never thought they'd even be gambling. Then, if the action man is fortunate enough to win, he makes damn sure that the person he is beating is having a good time while he's losing his cheese. That's a hustler. It doesn't have anything to do with laying down the lemon or finding a game that you know you can win with no problem. A hustler gets played, no matter where he goes. A lock artist gets played only when he thinks he's got the dead nuts to win. Therein lies the difference.
I'm sure those in Texas, who know CJ and have seen him up front and close, are loyal fans and believe Keith has no chance at defeating him. As well, there are those who hail from California and have never seen anybody play at the caliber of Keith's game when he's gambling, running six- and seven-packs on all equipment, whether it's a barbox with a big cueball or a ring game on Big Bertha or a 10-foot snooker table.
Personaslly, neither player has anything to prove. They each have a niche in the Americna pool archives that they have carved out for themselves. This ain't a horse race to see which thoroughbred can make it to the finish line first. Who would benefit from it? CJ? Keith?
There's a chance to see Keith give it his all on a reality series if enough interest is generated in the pool world. Team Scooter are the stars of the show, of course, but Keith was willing to get back in stroke and make a cameo appearance. Sadly, the funding reveals how much interest pool can generate, even with us pool aficionados on this forum.
Money talks and B.S. walks, as they say. I feel bad for Keith. He's wanting to get back out there in the thick of it. Me, I'm thank God every single day that I never quit my day job for pool. I'd rather Keith and I live a comfortable life than be worried about bills and keeping a roof over our heads. There is no money in pool today, and the interest that pool generates just ain't there anymore. :sorry:
I wish CJ all the best on his future endeavors in pool. He has never written anything untoward about Keith, and I believe the two of them do respect each other. The respect, however, is limited to them. In the words of Rodney Dangerfield, they seem to get no respect elsewhere when reading some of the words written about them. But in the scheme of things, Keith's words have always rung true, "Don't ever forget *who* you are." Threads like this don't bother Keith or CJ, as they know who they are. Instead, threads like this seem to offend their fans and loved ones much more so.
Texas Express
Texas express serves one purpose and that is time. Play shoot out 10 ahead . We used to say the cream will come to the top. Tourn. pool and gambling are like oil and water. Efron is one of the best tourn. players ever. Gambling all night at nineball id take Parica every time . Playing Buddy all night for the cash most would not last. Shane is the player today that resembles the past play him all night winner break .I like these rules that if you dont call safe i can give the shot back no LUCK.
Texas express serves one purpose and that is time. Play shoot out 10 ahead . We used to say the cream will come to the top. Tourn. pool and gambling are like oil and water. Efron is one of the best tourn. players ever. Gambling all night at nineball id take Parica every time . Playing Buddy all night for the cash most would not last. Shane is the player today that resembles the past play him all night winner break .I like these rules that if you dont call safe i can give the shot back no LUCK.
But isn't a game that favors the better player actually worse for creating action?
No answer necessary, 'twas a rhetorical question: it is.
Both at their best, CJ would get barbecued.
cj............
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Rotation pool as a whole is like that and yes, it is terribly boring. Not only is it a "shoot" or "play safe" game, it gives no real options to the player and roadmaps the whole pattern for them for the most part, which is why we get announcers that then sit and yap about the next obvious shot all match long.
If you want a game that forces shotmaking and allows decision making then no reason trying to "fix" rotation pool, it is broken because it "IS" rotation pool. Play 8-ball on proper tight equipment at the pro level.
I disagree with SJM that 9- ball is the only game getting viewers. The CSI 8-ball event seemed to be very popular. The only problem is, we see so very few true pro 8-ball events.
Your post certainly rings very true Jen... Forgive me for only quoting the highlights. Let me just say, I have a hard time respecting (or relating to) someone who thrives on self-promotion, and fills thread after thread, with self glorification, self-engrandisement, (sp) and name dropping.
Call me old fashioned, but I've always believed that if someone can refrain from such tiresome, repetitive braggadocio, your friends and admirer's, will say it plenty often enough for you !..This thread seems to bear that out quite well. (except for the few that seem to enjoy those disagreeable traits)
I guess that's why I respect the way Keith conducts himself on this forum, far better than any other fading (?) billiard luminary....In my book, he may not always win...But he'll always be a winner ! :thumbup:
SJD
PS..I must confess though, the fact that Keith almost always had a cigarette dangling from his mouth, and a drink in his hand, greatly endeared him to me !
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