Did Scmidt set new record

[lfigueroa]

I've never shot competitively. I do have a gun that reliably can do .75 MOA at 100 yds for a 5 string shot in my hands.....or at least could 10 years ago, the last time I tried.

Many years ago I was the Public Affairs Officer (PAO) at a base where a guy in base housing pulled his wife out onto the porch of their house, holding a gun to her head.

The circumstances were such that it was almost a foregone conclusion that he was going to kill her. One of the responding USAF Security Police Officers parked his cruiser where they had cordoned off the neighborhood, ran 50 yards or so to be within sight of the porch, pulled his gun, dropped to one knee, and shot the guy in the head.

That's some shooting.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Rimfirejunkie]

The record was set outdoors in formal benchrest competition. 10.5 pound class including rifle and scope. The projectiles are handmade and capable of ridiculous accuracy. Everything is handmade or reworked to the same level as handmade components. Anal doesn't begin to describe benchrest shooters. I spent fourteen hours once just turning the necks on 28 pieces of brass. A friend held the record for five 5 shot groups for over a decade with the same class rifle, .150". Shooting inside the fabled Houston Warehouse the owner could consistently crank out groups under .100.

While these groups and aggregates are pretty amazing even with the best equipment in the world they are a long ways from .009. Five bullets through the same hole would widen it somewhat and equally important, bullets are coming through the target tag at an angle since a bullet drops from the time it leaves the barrel. When we consider that the bullet is going through the paper at an angle and wouldn't leave a perfectly round hole the group would have likely been even smaller than a .009 if that angle was considered.

The shooter was a highly respected competitor and the manufacturer of the custom action used. Did he fire one shot into the tag and dump four into the backstop? It was decided he didn't. Now we use moving backers and I think they were using them that day but it malfunctioned. Very tiny groups are .050 and those are rare. I don't know about recent accomplishments since I quit shooting benchrest long ago. I took a look at a few results awhile back and it looked like you have to be shooting five shot groups under .200" at a hundred yards to just hold your position in the standings.

Good equipment, windflags, some very smart shooters. I could hang with them sometimes in mild conditions, what amazed me is their groups didn't get much bigger in bad conditions, like five inches of rain in two days along with wind. I knew I was had at 200 yards when the windflag I had put at the end of an old embankment at about 120 yards rotated over 720 degrees without stopping! Seven minutes to shoot five shots seems like a long time but sometimes in that match I watched my windflags and scratched my butt and head, alternating hands, for six minutes then whipped five shots downrange out of the single shot rifle as fast as possible and hoped for the best. Another match mirage was so bad in a 40X scope that I often couldn't even see the 200 yard target, yet these guys shoot bug holes.

Hu

You think centerfire shooters are anal? Ever looked into rimfire benchrest?
Btw the .009 was shot by Jim Carmichael

 

[mikemosconi]

I believe that I read of a couple of the older players that ran 600
something, practicing or whatever you want to call it. The number
of balls that John has run is phenomenal. Doesn't Mosconi's
526 have an * exhibition high run beside it. There should be
a different category for each. Tournament, exhibition, practice
(or whatever you call; it). Mosconi's 526 as great as it is, is what
it is, an exhibition. To whatever John does, has nothing to do with
what Mosconi did.
jack

Thank you Jack, as this is EXACTLY my point- what Mr. JS ends up high running in his own set up/ conveniently scheduled/ideal condition/multi hundred or thousand attempts to run 527 balls / whatever we call it - it is just that and nothing more- an opportunity to sell videos perhaps - Mosconi just DID it - not even trying to obtain any number of balls run- no doubt he could of run several hundred more than 526 on other attempts if that meant anything to him or anyone else at the time- but it did not. Let's just see how this video is marketed if he does make 527- guaranteed he will claim to be the NEW record holder and it will be implied that this was a greater achievement than Mosconi could have accomplished - don't buy it either now or in the future!

 

[AtLarge]

... no doubt he could of run several hundred more than 526 on other attempts if that meant anything to him or anyone else at the time- but it did not. ...

Apparently high-run records meant something to someone -- see post #148 above.

 

[Mr. Wilson]

That said...whomever to break that record will wear that crown until they are unseated.

It won't matter a lick what somebody's fanboy thinks.

 

[SJpilot]

Is Mike his son or something?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[ShootingArts]

One reason I quit benchrest

You think centerfire shooters are anal? Ever looked into rimfire benchrest?
Btw the .009 was shot by Jim Carmichael

I was around in the early days of NBRSA rimfire benchrest. The local guys went to the nationals and came back with four or five world records. Small groups and at least one aggregate. My best day I placed first in one class and second in the other shooting rimfire. Problem was the local shooters wouldn't settle down to one set of rules. I had a Suhl and a couple sporter/factory rifles, most pretty cheap. I still have an unfired Norinco and one with a few hundred rounds through it. I have a tuner somewhere but know how to tune without one too. What I got tired of was the constant search for ammo and the need of a half-dozen or so thousand dollar scopes or constantly changing the scopes from rifle to rifle. One week I needed a 10.5 pound gun, then a 10, a 9.5, I think they got as light as nine. Then they would jump back and forth between all of these.

One thing I chased just for grins at my home hundred yard range was shooting under an inch with the rimfire. I managed to shoot a five 5 shot group aggregate all under an inch at a hundred yards with my CZ sporter.

Even the best rimfire ammo in the world has a turd in it now and then which was another annoyance. I learned that a bad round will foul the barrel too so best to shoot the next round at something besides the target. Corrosive as hell but the old black powder rimfire ammo was more accurate and consistent than that of the eighties or nineties when I was shooting. Still plinking with that old federal match stuff I have had laying around forever.

Gale "Mac" MacMillan shot the group I am talking about.
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...MvfAhW1HTQIHfitBDUQMwg0KAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8

Hu

 

[Cuebuddy]

I was around in the early days of NBRSA rimfire benchrest. The local guys went to the nationals and came back with four or five world records. Small groups and at least one aggregate. My best day I placed first in one class and second in the other shooting rimfire. Problem was the local shooters wouldn't settle down to one set of rules. I had a Suhl and a couple sporter/factory rifles, most pretty cheap. I still have an unfired Norinco and one with a few hundred rounds through it. I have a tuner somewhere but know how to tune without one too. What I got tired of was the constant search for ammo and the need of a half-dozen or so thousand dollar scopes or constantly changing the scopes from rifle to rifle. One week I needed a 10.5 pound gun, then a 10, a 9.5, I think they got as light as nine. Then they would jump back and forth between all of these.

One thing I chased just for grins at my home hundred yard range was shooting under an inch with the rimfire. I managed to shoot a five 5 shot group aggregate all under an inch at a hundred yards with my CZ sporter.

Even the best rimfire ammo in the world has a turd in it now and then which was another annoyance. I learned that a bad round will foul the barrel too so best to shoot the next round at something besides the target. Corrosive as hell but the old black powder rimfire ammo was more accurate and consistent than that of the eighties or nineties when I was shooting. Still plinking with that old federal match stuff I have had laying around forever.

Gale "Mac" MacMillan shot the group I am talking about.
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...MvfAhW1HTQIHfitBDUQMwg0KAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8

Hu

I opened the link but I only see one hole....it looks like the other four missed paper :wink:

 

[lfigueroa]

That said...whomever to break that record will wear that crown until they are unseated.

It won't matter a lick what somebody's fanboy thinks.

Well, it will matter.

It's going to be the aficionados of the sport -- those who appreciate the finer points of the game and write about it -- and their opinion that will matter. As in every other sport, it is the opinion of the sport's cognescenti that will matter. What the hackers think will not matter a wit, though I'm sure they will squeal the loudest.

Lou Figueroa

 

[book collector]

Chasing this record, that was set with different balls ,different cloth , and on a different size table, makes about as much sense, as trying to make a living playing pool.
Actually, it makes even less sense than that , which makes it a ridiculous exercise in futility. imho

 

[RiverCity]

Is Mike his son or something?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

No, just someone who has read one of Mizeraks book. There is a section about nicknames, and how to come up with your own. At the end of it, it says if you cant come up with anything good, tell people your name is Mike Mosconi, Willies nephew. :thumbup:

 

[jimmyg]

Returning to the original question: JS may have set a new record for failed attempts at trying to set a new record.

 

[ShortBusRuss]

Returning to the original question: MS may have set a new record for failed attempts at trying to set a new record.

Who is MS?

 

[ShootingArts]

Part of the confusion

I opened the link but I only see one hole....it looks like the other four missed paper :wink:

Gale told somebody he had dumped four in the backstop. Then he said he was just stirring the pot. Hard to know because the same things that push bullets out of a group sometimes push them into a group. Once I fired four shots from a factory barreled .308 into less than a tenth from a cold barrel, then the fifth round into a separate hole! My best aggregate ever with that .308 was a .403 and it could be counted on to shoot aggregates in the sixes after I had bedded one of the factory aluminum block stocks, cleaned up all of the spots that touched that shouldn't, and put a two ounce trigger in it. The four shots into a zero was just a fluke. Did MacMillan have such a fluke? Most of the thousand yard class records are far smaller than the typical group.

I don't know if that .009" is real or not but if I had to pick a record in any activity that would stand a hundred years that is the one I would choose.

Most people today that know a little but not much discount Mosconi's accomplishment because it was shot on an eight foot table but today's players all prefer a nine foot table for high runs because of less congestion and none would think of trying a seven foot table for a straight pool record. Plenty of eight foot tables out there so I think anyone chasing Mosconi's record should try it on an eight foot table.

We have video now so that makes things considerably easier for someone chasing a higher run than 526. We have drug testing too these days. Pursuant to some of the other threads, I think anyone setting a record today should voluntarily drug test with the standard double blind testing.

Having stopped three balls short of a perfect in snooker when I drove a five ball dead center of a side pocket and it popped back out I know my heart was about to come out of my chest when I was in my late teens or maybe early twenties and realized I was very close to a perfect score. Got perfect shape on the six for almost straight in on the six and just roll up to shoot the seven. Walked around the table for an easy tap in on the six and looked down on the five about a foot away from my bridge hand. I was so focused on shape I hadn't even seen the five pop out. 520-525 is still a long ways from a 527!

Hu

 

[jimmyg]

Who is MS?

I meant JS...John Schmidt...

 

[Cuebuddy]

Hu I spent last weekend out in the flats popping Pheasants and trying to nail a few Prairie Dogs. The wind is brutal in easter Colorado and these .223's dont handle the breeze all that well.
I do much better with a scattergun, 225 pellets of # 6 shot is the aggregate that seems to work best for me when the tumbleweeds are scooting at 40 mph.


Myself and my boys.

 

[ShootingArts]

Great!

Hu I spent last weekend out in the flats popping Pheasants and trying to nail a few Prairie Dogs. The wind is brutal in easter Colorado and these .223's dont handle the breeze all that well.
I do much better with a scattergun, 225 pellets of # 6 shot is the aggregate that seems to work best for me when the tumbleweeds are scooting at 40 mph.


Myself and my boys.

That is a great picture and looks like great times!

I shoot at a ten inch round gong 230 yards behind my back porch with .223's. It doesn't take much wind to get hard to hit that target. Pretty tiny anyway through my 2x7X scope but my favorite plinker is my do it all AR. It shot a lot of three-quarter inch groups back when I cared.

They used to, probably still do shoot benchrest at Midland TX. 30-40mph winds are common, gusts higher. I almost ruined my tires driving west of Amarillo one trip. I didn't realize how far I had the front wheels of my Suburban turned into the wind for over a hundred miles until I got alongside a motorhome and almost dove into the side of it when it protected me from the side wind.

Benchrest shooters have been known to shoot in a named storm when nobody offically canceled the match. I think the storm was Hazel and the winds were down to fifty or so. Funny, it happened just a few miles from my home but I wasn't shooting benchrest yet and didn't know about it.

Happy New Year again!
Hu

 

[mikemosconi]

No, just someone who has read one of Mizeraks book. There is a section about nicknames, and how to come up with your own. At the end of it, it says if you cant come up with anything good, tell people your name is Mike Mosconi, Willies nephew. :thumbup:

NO I am not willie Mosconi's son, nor his relative- never claimed to be either on this site nor anywhere else. Is it OK to have this Italian last name- or is THAT being challenged on this site too? Lots of people here seem to have problems with just other people's opinions- maybe some of us here have long, long histories in this game, such as myself, and want to see certain parts of the game's history respected and not turned into a "for profit circus" which is how I personally see this type of contrived attempt to claim some type of billiard crowning achievement. I believe, very strongly, that Wiilie Mosconi would have run way more than 526 if THAT was his desire due to some monetary gain available to help support his family- that was NEVER the case in his era- he just ran 526 as an afterthought to an exhibition on a whim urged on by the crowd on that date! It's just an opinion folks, as worthy as the next!

 

[Dan White]

Chasing this record, that was set with different balls ,different cloth , and on a different size table, makes about as much sense, as trying to make a living playing pool.
Actually, it makes even less sense than that , which makes it a ridiculous exercise in futility. imho

Yet those things might not matter in the end. Look at baseball's home run record. It may well be the most publicized yet at the same time most useless record in all of sports. Baseball fields have wildly different dimensions (even more so in the past) making it impossible for home run records to have any real meaning.

The cognoscenti, as Lou put it, deemed that the home run record means something. I'm sure money has a lot to do with that choice. I have the feeling that if 526 is ever broken that will become the new record regardless of playing conditions or number of attempts. Like I said before, records in sports do not mean as much as people want them to. Things change too much over time. The only stat that really matters is wins and losses.

 

[Rimfirejunkie]

I was around in the early days of NBRSA rimfire benchrest. The local guys went to the nationals and came back with four or five world records. Small groups and at least one aggregate. My best day I placed first in one class and second in the other shooting rimfire. Problem was the local shooters wouldn't settle down to one set of rules. I had a Suhl and a couple sporter/factory rifles, most pretty cheap. I still have an unfired Norinco and one with a few hundred rounds through it. I have a tuner somewhere but know how to tune without one too. What I got tired of was the constant search for ammo and the need of a half-dozen or so thousand dollar scopes or constantly changing the scopes from rifle to rifle. One week I needed a 10.5 pound gun, then a 10, a 9.5, I think they got as light as nine. Then they would jump back and forth between all of these.

One thing I chased just for grins at my home hundred yard range was shooting under an inch with the rimfire. I managed to shoot a five 5 shot group aggregate all under an inch at a hundred yards with my CZ sporter.

Even the best rimfire ammo in the world has a turd in it now and then which was another annoyance. I learned that a bad round will foul the barrel too so best to shoot the next round at something besides the target. Corrosive as hell but the old black powder rimfire ammo was more accurate and consistent than that of the eighties or nineties when I was shooting. Still plinking with that old federal match stuff I have had laying around forever.

Gale "Mac" MacMillan shot the group I am talking about.
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...MvfAhW1HTQIHfitBDUQMwg0KAEwAQ&iact=mrc&uact=8

Hu

You seen what a suhl goes for now? You might want to sit down. Haha