The facts about the final.

Marop · Jan 30, 2011

As Dennis stated the matches were scheduled to be played at 11 AM and 2 PM on the TV table with Ken as the official referee as he was in the other matches and Dennis and myself as time keeper and scoring. Due to Niels going so deep in the 9 ball we had to move the matches to after the 9 ball was completed. Then there was a last minute change to play the Appleton/Niels match in the main room at the same time the 9 ball finals were being played. This was to try an get the Accu-stats crew out of there at a reasonable time as they had been working all day. This turned out to be a great disappointment because the Darren/Niels match was very good with each player having a fairly big run and the game only taking about 5 innings.

I was not an official referee. Ken Shuman was totally worn out, fighting a cold and had to leave for the airport at 4AM. The semi final and the final were to be played with no referee and no shot clock, just a scorekeeper.

Prior to the final I suggested we forfeit Alex due to his condition and wrap things up for the evening. The arena was full of spectators that had been waiting for the final mainly because of Alex's antics. My suggestion was greeted with a 95 percent negative reaction by the crowd. Danny D. said I have to let him play, his condition would not effect his play. Pat was not involved in the decision, however he heard Alex's antics going on prior to the match and did not bring up any concerns. Since I was not an official referee I asked Darren what he wanted me to do and he had said don't worry about it, it will be fine. In fact during the match he engaged with Alex while smiling all the time.

I was disgusted more than anybody and was hoping Darren would run 100 and out and it would all be over. I did my best to keep Alex as quiet as possible while Darren was at the table.

In hindsight I should have suggested we forfeit Alex, cut the accu-stats feed and just let them play for the crowds amusement.

As far as the future of this event goes this might put an end to it which is a shame because the players that participate like it better than the other
3 events. Corey even told me that if it wasn't for the straight pool he would not attend. I'm sure we are going to lose a lot of sponsorship from the 14.1 purists that support this event such as Bop Jewett and Stu Mattana due to this incident and to be truthful I probably wont be back due to the headaches and the cost (airfare, hotel, food, etc..)

So I hope you enjoyed the 2 good matches that were streamed as they are probably going to be the last, only time will tell.

Bill

Bob Jewett · Jan 30, 2011

Thanks Bill for all the work you have put into the event. It's to bad the match turned out as it did but at least the antics didn't seem to affect the winner.

Williebetmore · Jan 30, 2011

Hey Bill,
Many thanks from a straight pool fanatic for all that you and the others did to try to carry on and "build" a tradition at DCC. Two thumbs down for the jerk that tried to ruin the effort and the event.

Very sad situation when alcohol is more important than the competition - he just doesn't "get it;" his loss. It would be hard for any serious fan of the game to ever root for him again....maybe he'll develop some new jokes to make pool even more "entertaining" for us - maybe he will try mime.

ForumGhost516 · Jan 30, 2011

Marop said:
As Dennis stated the matches were scheduled to be played at 11 AM and 2 PM on the TV table with Ken as the official referee as he was in the other matches and Dennis and myself as time keeper and scoring. Due to Niels going so deep in the 9 ball we had to move the matches to after the 9 ball was completed. Then there was a last minute change to play the Appleton/Niels match in the main room at the same time the 9 ball finals were being played. This was to try an get the Accu-stats crew out of there at a reasonable time as they had been working all day. This turned out to be a great disappointment because the Darren/Niels match was very good with each player having a fairly big run and the game only taking about 5 innings.

I was not an official referee. Ken Shuman was totally worn out, fighting a cold and had to leave for the airport at 4AM. The semi final and the final were to be played with no referee and no shot clock, just a scorekeeper.

Prior to the final I suggested we forfeit Alex due to his condition and wrap things up for the evening. The arena was full of spectators that had been waiting for the final mainly because of Alex's antics. My suggestion was greeted with a 95 percent negative reaction by the crowd. Danny D. said I have to let him play, his condition would not effect his play. Pat was not involved in the decision, however he heard Alex's antics going on prior to the match and did not bring up any concerns. Since I was not an official referee I asked Darren what he wanted me to do and he had said don't worry about it, it will be fine. In fact during the match he engaged with Alex while smiling all the time.

I was disgusted more than anybody and was hoping Darren would run 100 and out and it would all be over. I did my best to keep Alex as quiet as possible while Darren was at the table.

In hindsight I should have suggested we forfeit Alex, cut the accu-stats feed and just let them play for the crowds amusement.

As far as the future of this event goes this might put an end to it which is a shame because the players that participate like it better than the other
3 events. Corey even told me that if it wasn't for the straight pool he would not attend. I'm sure we are going to lose a lot of sponsorship from the 14.1 purists that support this event such as Bop Jewett and Stu Mattana due to this incident and to be truthful I probably wont be back due to the headaches and the cost (airfare, hotel, food, etc..)

So I hope you enjoyed the 2 good matches that were streamed as they are probably going to be the last, only time will tell.

Bill

Bill you were in an unwinnable situation end of story. If you hold to the standard that Alex should have been tossed out of the match (which he should have been) the crowd would have been extremely disappointed and then you lose support in that sense.

If you let the match go obviously as you said the 14.1 purists are going to speak up and be pissed at Alex's behavior etc.

Like I said you were in an unwinable situation and I hope nothing like this happens at the SBE Event.

Charlie

dmgwalsh · Jan 30, 2011

I think Bill did the best he could in a bad situation. He tried to reign in Alex, but Alex would not listen. Darren said don't worry about it and was laughing back at Alex. The spectators were there and the clown put on a clown show.

If there is a next year, Alex will either be barred or strict rules will be promulgated from the get go. Bill and I were just trying to keep Bob Jewett's challenge going and we did ok in the straight pool room but we have no experience reffing matches. We figured the pros would handle that at the tv table as they did in the first 2 matches. Bill had a baptism by fire.

Steve Lipsky · Jan 30, 2011

Thanks for the report from the ground, Bill. It is easy for us to say that the ref should have forfeited Alex, but we weren't there and didn't have to face an angry crowd. I wholeheartedly believe you did your best and am proud of the sacrifices you make annually to promote this game.

That said, can't the event just ban Alex permanently, and reserve the right to ban anyone not in fit condition? These straight pool contests at more established tournaments are beginning to gain ground - why let the sad actions of one player ruin it for everyone else?

It kind of brings to mind the absolute circus that Jimmy Mataya made of the first Dragon 14.1 World Championships about 5 years ago. At no point did anyone feel the event's continuity was ever threatened - it just became obvious that in no way, shape, or form, would Mr. Mataya ever be allowed back.

- Steve

BayGene · Jan 30, 2011

I'm with Steve Lipsky. Pretty Boy Floyd was a drunken jerk in 2006 but 14.1 continues to revive. Alex should be barred from future straight pool events and we should all move on. He never should have placed Bill, Danny, and Pat in such a difficult and embarassing situation.

Steve Lipsky · Jan 30, 2011

Btw I am not speaking as a 14.1 fan. There has been some level of "stop taking your beloved straight pool so seriously" in both forums, and at least for me, it has nothing to do with whatever discipline is being played.

Showing up severely intoxicated to the finals of a professional event of any kind (9-ball, 1-pocket, darts, baseball, etc.) is ludicrous. Has nothing to do with straight pool.

I also believe Alex is a well-meaning guy who made a mistake. I hope he apologizes, and if he does, I take back what I said before and I think he should be allowed to play again. I brought up the Mataya thing earlier, but from what I've heard, Alex was not nearly as problematic. Jimmy was shooting out of turn lol. I don't think Alex was flouting the rules, just exhibiting incredibly bad judgment.

- Steve

lfigueroa · Jan 30, 2011

Marop said:
As Dennis stated the matches were scheduled to be played at 11 AM and 2 PM on the TV table with Ken as the official referee as he was in the other matches and Dennis and myself as time keeper and scoring. Due to Niels going so deep in the 9 ball we had to move the matches to after the 9 ball was completed. Then there was a last minute change to play the Appleton/Niels match in the main room at the same time the 9 ball finals were being played. This was to try an get the Accu-stats crew out of there at a reasonable time as they had been working all day. This turned out to be a great disappointment because the Darren/Niels match was very good with each player having a fairly big run and the game only taking about 5 innings.

I was not an official referee. Ken Shuman was totally worn out, fighting a cold and had to leave for the airport at 4AM. The semi final and the final were to be played with no referee and no shot clock, just a scorekeeper.

Prior to the final I suggested we forfeit Alex due to his condition and wrap things up for the evening. The arena was full of spectators that had been waiting for the final mainly because of Alex's antics. My suggestion was greeted with a 95 percent negative reaction by the crowd. Danny D. said I have to let him play, his condition would not effect his play. Pat was not involved in the decision, however he heard Alex's antics going on prior to the match and did not bring up any concerns. Since I was not an official referee I asked Darren what he wanted me to do and he had said don't worry about it, it will be fine. In fact during the match he engaged with Alex while smiling all the time.

I was disgusted more than anybody and was hoping Darren would run 100 and out and it would all be over. I did my best to keep Alex as quiet as possible while Darren was at the table.

In hindsight I should have suggested we forfeit Alex, cut the accu-stats feed and just let them play for the crowds amusement.

As far as the future of this event goes this might put an end to it which is a shame because the players that participate like it better than the other
3 events. Corey even told me that if it wasn't for the straight pool he would not attend. I'm sure we are going to lose a lot of sponsorship from the 14.1 purists that support this event such as Bop Jewett and Stu Mattana due to this incident and to be truthful I probably wont be back due to the headaches and the cost (airfare, hotel, food, etc..)

So I hope you enjoyed the 2 good matches that were streamed as they are probably going to be the last, only time will tell.

Bill

Bill, you say you were not the official referee -- what was your role? Were you just racking, or not even doing that? What were your duties with Ken out of commission?

Lou Figueroa

Blackjack · Jan 30, 2011

This incident is not strong enough to kill our passion for 14.1, or our passion for this event. It's an unfortunate incident, but it does not reflect upon all of the positive that this event stands for. It reflects on the poor judgment of one person, and that's it. Thanks to everybody that works their ass off to keep this game alive.

mnorwood · Jan 30, 2011

Blackjack said:
This incident is not strong enough to kill our passion for 14.1, or our passion for this event. It's an unfortunate incident, but it does not reflect upon all of the positive that this event stands for. It reflects on the poor judgment of one person, and that's it. Thanks to everybody that works their ass off to keep this game alive.

I am with David on this. Don't kill an entire event for the actions of one person. Nobody suggested canceling the NFL season over the actions of Brett Favre or any other NFL player who displays bad behavior on or off the field.

Marop · Jan 30, 2011

lfigueroa said:
Bill, you say you were not the official referee -- what was your role? Were you just racking, or not even doing that? What were your duties with Ken out of commission?

Lou Figueroa

I was basically a in charge of the event at that time as Dennis had to leave due to the change in scheduling. The only time we used a referee was when Ken was doing it on the TV table. He was calling every shot, keeping track of the run, racking the balls and keeping score. The previous matches upstairs and the semi in the main room were played without an official referee, Dennis and I kept score and the players racked the balls.

Ken informed me that he would not be able to do the matches that were rescheduled for after the nine ball and we agreed to play them the same way we did the non TV table matches.

It was my decision to let Alex play and once I did that I let it play out hoping it would work out. Stopping the match after it started did not seem to be a good idea. The crowd was the largest we had all weekend, accu-stats was not complaining and Darren was having a good time with it.

This is the reason I will not be put into this position again. You love straight pool as much as I do so my suggestion is that you volunteer to do it next year. It's only 16 hours a day for the first 4 days then it gets a little easier. Maybe you can raise the $10,000 as Dennis did so we can keep the tradition that Bob Jewett started alive.

Bill

DogsPlayingPool · Jan 30, 2011

If Alex apologizes ban him from the event for one year (the next one in which he participates in the Derby).

Given that, if the event is held next year at the Derby, put me down for a $50 contribution towards the prize fund to show my support for straight pool and The 14.1 Challenge. :wink:

lfigueroa · Jan 30, 2011

Marop said:
I was basically a in charge of the event at that time as Dennis had to leave due to the change in scheduling. The only time we used a referee was when Ken was doing it on the TV table. He was calling every shot, keeping track of the run, racking the balls and keeping score. The previous matches upstairs and the semi in the main room were played without an official referee, Dennis and I kept score and the players racked the balls.

Ken informed me that he would not be able to do the matches that were rescheduled for after the nine ball and we agreed to play them the same way we did the non TV table matches.

It was my decision to let Alex play and once I did that I let it play out hoping it would work out. Stopping the match after it started did not seem to be a good idea. The crowd was the largest we had all weekend, accu-stats was not complaining and Darren was having a good time with it.

This is the reason I will not be put into this position again. You love straight pool as much as I do so my suggestion is that you volunteer to do it next year. It's only 16 hours a day for the first 4 days then it gets a little easier. Maybe you can raise the $10,000 as Dennis did so we can keep the tradition that Bob Jewett started alive.

Bill

I was keeping an open mind and going to say something nice about all you did for the event until I got to the last few sentences of your post, which seem to direct some unwarranted bitterness my way. So I'll pass and sleep on what I think about the whole thing before responding.

Lou Figueroa

Marop · Jan 30, 2011

lfigueroa said:
I was keeping an open mind and going to say something nice about all you did for the event until I got to the last few sentences of your post, which seem to direct some unwarranted bitterness my way. So I'll pass and sleep on what I think about the whole thing before responding.

Lou Figueroa

No bitterness directed to you. Dennis and I had a great time for the most part and the players were very much appreciative of the event and the time we spent trying to make it right. I was just looking for a replacement so if the event does get sponsorship than someone else can run it. Who knows, maybe Bob will be back next year.

Bob, if you're in, I'll buy breakfast.

Bill

stevekur1 · Jan 30, 2011

First Off i will start off by saying Thank You to Bill, Dennis, Elvicash without you guys this event wouldnt have been possible.

I think the behavoir of alex is unecceptable, he is a professional and should act the roll. Bill you were put in a very bad spot and i really feel for you. I didnt get to watch the match do to my busy day of moving furniture around. But based on what i saw in the semi-finals between Alex and Mike Davis, and during that match i was completely appauled by his bahavior and i am not surprised that he got worse.
It is one thing to clown around during the qualifying rounds because it is your money on the line. But once you get into tournament phase there should be some sort of dignity towards the event that you are playing in.

Just think of all the blood sweat and tears went into making this event possible, plus all the hard earned money that went into travel and lodging for those who made this event possible. and more so all of the sponsor dollars that were donated to help the event continue in its glory.

I consider the way that Alex acted to be a big slap in the face, and once again Bill you were in a very awkward position.

I hope that this does not tarnish the Beauty of this event, and I hope to see that the event continues for a very long time or at least until i make it down to take my attempts...LOL :smile:

I for one think i would of pulled the plug, and just forfieted the match giving the monies to 3rd place and so on and so fourth. Treating him as if he were never there. cause the way i see it, his behavoir tarnished every match that he played. which quite possibly would have changed the outcome of the tourney.

Maybe i am wrong, but thats just what my heart tells me !

-Steve

elvicash · Jan 30, 2011

I will chime and and say I think Dennis did a great job raising the money. We would not have the event without the sponsorship so thanks to Bob Jewett, Stu, Angel and Richard along with Greg and Diamond. The event happens because of the hard work of Dennis and Bill running this event and trying to maintain the standard that Bob has set in the prior years. I bring some equpment and try to help here and there to fill in and help as did Rich from Chicago. Thanks for all that everyone did, I enjoyed being there but as Marop has said it is not a low cost effort by anyone involved in money or time. We do it because we love the game. We really felt great that the players were saying this is a great part of the Derby and they were drawn to participate and that made me feel like we were doing something real. I do not want to think that Alex as an individual can break that down/apart by his actions. As for me I do not want to second guess anything done by anyone onsite and I hope some of the posters online who can be cutting in their remarks will consider their words before they make the situation worse. I myself appreciate all of the efforts made by Marap and DMG and only want the best for the game of straight pool. If it happens to go again next year I will be there if possible and it does not happen it has been great being a part of the Bob Jewett Straight Pool Challenge at the Derby City Classic. More people play 14.1 now thanks to this event and I am proud to have played a small role in it. Time will tell I am hoping for a positive outcome.

lfigueroa · Jan 31, 2011

Marop said:
No bitterness directed to you. Dennis and I had a great time for the most part and the players were very much appreciative of the event and the time we spent trying to make it right. I was just looking for a replacement so if the event does get sponsorship than someone else can run it. Who knows, maybe Bob will be back next year.

Bob, if you're in, I'll buy breakfast.

Bill

Bill, hearing all you've heard, post-finals: would you make the same decision again if you were in the same spot?

Lou Figueroa

sausage · Jan 31, 2011

Steve Lipsky said:
...why let the sad actions of one player ruin it for everyone else?

It kind of brings to mind the absolute circus that Jimmy Mataya made of the first Dragon 14.1 World Championships about 5 years ago. At no point did anyone feel the event's continuity was ever threatened - it just became obvious that in no way, shape, or form, would Mr. Mataya ever be allowed back.

- Steve

agreed, i have not seen a video of what transpired but it won't hurt the event as a whole. in fact, it might increase viewership much like a car wrecks at a NASCAR event. a little drama never hurts. let the participants come drunk if they wish and then call the media to cover the event. :wink:

mikeyfrost · Jan 31, 2011

Marop it's a shame a player put you in that brutal of a situation, you're right there's nothing you could have done to win there. In retrospect I still don't see what YOU personally could have done that there wouldn't have been scrutiny.

The facts about the final.

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