BONUS BALL: ABP / Non-payment

Blue Hog ridr

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
I think the smartest players took what little they received in the mail and stayed home.

I doubt it would take to much to imagine the outcome of the second go round to not end up the same as the first.

I had much the same thoughts with Ms. Tab. She is obviously coming to Vegas for the Mosconi anyway. It won't look good if she gets stiffed.

And then, if they have money to pay her, why not the rest of the players.
 
Cory in DC

Cory in DC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
PINKLADY said:
i caught it too - contract labor/1099'd - yet you were a "spokesman" for BB back in JUN?
so can you please give me a cell # for BB, or some direct answers?
i ask, cause we dropped $1500 in cancellations @ JUL (would have been $4K had we flown out).
thanks
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I don't see the distinction. Firms can produce marketing in-house or contract it out. The same is true for a lot of operational services firms require. Whether producing it directly in the form of work by employees or by contracting out, he who pays the piper calls the tune. That is, the basic point that the leadership of BB makes the calls and not its employees or contractors, is true whether Nathan gets a 1099, hourly pay, salary, or just promises.
 
Cory in DC

Cory in DC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
NYC cue dude said:
Here's what I know:
The players were paid recently 1/3 of what they are owed. The checks have cleared.
The rest will be paid upon arriving in Vegas (personally, I am skeptical, but time will tell)
Over the first week of November, all the make up matches will be played. Players will not be paid according to the amounts agreed upon in the last contract. They will receive a flat fee (a fraction of the previous amount) for the few days of work.
The players received new contracts with the new pay scale included.

This is an effort to get a full season recorded. Once they have this, they will attempt to shop this to the networks. It is Larry's intention, IMO, to sell a finished package to an entity that can continue to produce this. The players are promised nothing past this season. This means that if the product that is "in the can" is sold, the new buyer can/will decide what previous players, if any, would come back and what they would be paid. In essence, the players that may be responsible for making this success, will receive virtually nothing for it.

There you have it folks. The immediate future of bonus ball.
Click to expand...

I don't see your point about players getting nothing if BB succeeds and is bought. If (that's a really big "if" of course) someone buys BB, they have no product without the players. So the players would be in a good position to negotiate reasonable terms, certainly more than "virtually nothing."

That all hinges upon a network buying it. Stranger things than BB have made it onto cable.
 
B

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BasementDweller said:
I actually heard from a reputable source that they are all being given coupons for a free cue from Bill Stroud. They even get to design it themselves.

That's the word on the street anyway.
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Sorry but I have to clarify this -- since I have received some more up to date information and I really don't want to be spreading any misinformation.

Apparently, the coupons are for buy one get one free cues.

I hope that clears things up.
 
SpiderWebComm

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
NYC cue dude said:
Here's what I know:
The players were paid recently 1/3 of what they are owed. The checks have cleared.
The rest will be paid upon arriving in Vegas (personally, I am skeptical, but time will tell)
Over the first week of November, all the make up matches will be played. Players will not be paid according to the amounts agreed upon in the last contract. They will receive a flat fee (a fraction of the previous amount) for the few days of work.
The players received new contracts with the new pay scale included.

This is an effort to get a full season recorded. Once they have this, they will attempt to shop this to the networks. It is Larry's intention, IMO, to sell a finished package to an entity that can continue to produce this. The players are promised nothing past this season. This means that if the product that is "in the can" is sold, the new buyer can/will decide what previous players, if any, would come back and what they would be paid. In essence, the players that may be responsible for making this success, will receive virtually nothing for it.

There you have it folks. The immediate future of bonus ball.
Click to expand...
Paying 1/3 and then saying "get the rest when you come to Vegas" doesn't make BB exempt from owing the balance of the 2/3. If BB thinks the player is forfeiting their 2/3 because they don't make a cross-country trip on their own money, they're insane.

The best move from here is for all of the players/employees/contractors who are owed money to band together and hire a lawyer to file a judgement against BB. That way, if it DOES profit, they get paid. Force BB to pay for a legal defense, force them to pay if they get money, force them to pay off the top of the current money. There are 20000000000 Vegas attorneys who, if presented with a group, will take this case on the come. That's what I'd do. Win/lose... make them defend themselves. I'd never allow them to get $50k, pay new contractors/employees before clearing out the old nor would I allow them to complete the filming of a season without clearing their past debt first.
 
nathandumoulin

nathandumoulin

WPBL / RUNOUT MEDIA
Silver Member
jay helfert said:
One again showing your arrogance for the truth Nathan. That's a LOT MORE than a technicality whether you're an employee or a sub contractor. Most of us on here who have owned businesses are aware of the difference, and it's a big one!
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I've worked as a sub contractor on several jobs, and as an employee on others. I'm well aware of the difference, and implied as much already.

Why you persist on pointing fingers over something so petty, is beyond me. How I pay taxes has no relevance to the point I was making. The name calling is a nice touch though.
 
N

NYC cue dude

Banned
Cory in DC said:
I don't see your point about players getting nothing if BB succeeds and is bought. If (that's a really big "if" of course) someone buys BB, they have no product without the players. So the players would be in a good position to negotiate reasonable terms, certainly more than "virtually nothing."

That all hinges upon a network buying it. Stranger things than BB have made it onto cable.
Click to expand...

If its sold and succeeds, the players aren't guaranteed anything. Sure, they'd need payers to proceed, but which players and at what level they play at, are yet to be determined. They could have amateurs do it while changing the concept, for all we know. That's my point. Once its sold, all bets are off.
 
N

NYC cue dude

Banned
nathandumoulin said:
I've worked as a sub contractor on several jobs, and as an employee on others. I'm well aware of the difference, and implied as much already.

Why you persist on pointing fingers over something so petty, is beyond me. How I pay taxes has no relevance to the point I was making. The name calling is a nice touch though.
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Nathan, jay is sensitive to the players needs and the sanctity of the game. I mostly agree with him. Jay is suspicious of you and sees you as another Deno Andrews. I've been told that you're a really good guy. And I don't question the source that came from, ever.
 
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PINKLADY

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
NYC cue dude said:
If its sold and succeeds, the players aren't guaranteed anything. Sure, they'd need payers to proceed, but which players and at what level they play at, are yet to be determined. They could have amateurs do it while changing the concept, for all we know. That's my point. Once its sold, all bets are off.
Click to expand...

Death of a Sale

unless Contractural Agreement
 
jimmyg

jimmyg

Mook! What's a Mook?
Silver Member
NYC cue dude said:
Here's what I know:
The players were paid recently 1/3 of what they are owed. The checks have cleared.
The rest will be paid upon arriving in Vegas (personally, I am skeptical, but time will tell)
Over the first week of November, all the make up matches will be played. Players will not be paid according to the amounts agreed upon in the last contract. They will receive a flat fee (a fraction of the previous amount) for the few days of work.
The players received new contracts with the new pay scale included.

This is an effort to get a full season recorded. Once they have this, they will attempt to shop this to the networks. It is Larry's intention, IMO, to sell a finished package to an entity that can continue to produce this. The players are promised nothing past this season. This means that if the product that is "in the can" is sold, the new buyer can/will decide what previous players, if any, would come back and what they would be paid. In essence, the players that may be responsible for making this success, will receive virtually nothing for it.

There you have it folks. The immediate future of bonus ball.
Click to expand...

If we follow the bread crumbs, or read the tea leaves, a little deeper, I would venture a guess that they will be asked to relinquish any rights that they may have had with respect to any and all previously promised, potential, and/or future royal payments earned on all previously filmed "shows".

Am I wrong?

J
 
N

NYC cue dude

Banned
jimmyg said:
If we follow the bread crumbs, or read the tea leaves, a little deeper, I would venture a guess that they will be asked to relinquish any rights that they may have had with respect to any and all previously promised, potential, and/or future royal payments earned on all previously filmed "shows".

Am I wrong?

J
Click to expand...

No, you are not.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
NYC cue dude said:
Here's what I know:
The players were paid recently 1/3 of what they are owed. The checks have cleared.
The rest will be paid upon arriving in Vegas (personally, I am skeptical, but time will tell)
Over the first week of November, all the make up matches will be played. Players will not be paid according to the amounts agreed upon in the last contract. They will receive a flat fee (a fraction of the previous amount) for the few days of work.
The players received new contracts with the new pay scale included.

This is an effort to get a full season recorded. Once they have this, they will attempt to shop this to the networks. It is Larry's intention, IMO, to sell a finished package to an entity that can continue to produce this. The players are promised nothing past this season. This means that if the product that is "in the can" is sold, the new buyer can/will decide what previous players, if any, would come back and what they would be paid. In essence, the players that may be responsible for making this success, will receive virtually nothing for it.

There you have it folks. The immediate future of bonus ball.
Click to expand...

Some guys got 2/3rds. How they determined who got more and who got less is anybody's guess. I heard that they will be paid 300 per match played when they go back. Plus their back pay of course. We will see. After the first go round who can trust what ANYBODY from Bogus Ball has to say.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And I would think that the abp may share some liability in the employment claim, as a supporter of blowd-up ball and a professional organization that holds and exercises influence over the participants.

I think thee players can get together and get themselves defined a 'class' by the court...and bring a class action suit.

As a defendant, I'd imagine the abp would go bankrupt, based on defense costs solely.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Prob the retainer would cause them to close shop, though I would guess Dennis is basically pro bono...thoug I don't believe he practices employment law.
 
Cory in DC

Cory in DC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
NYC cue dude said:
If its sold and succeeds, the players aren't guaranteed anything. Sure, they'd need payers to proceed, but which players and at what level they play at, are yet to be determined. They could have amateurs do it while changing the concept, for all we know. That's my point. Once its sold, all bets are off.
Click to expand...

Right, but if it's not sold and doesn't succeed, the players aren't guaranteed anything either. In fact, I'd say that in that event, they're likely to get very little. On the other hand, there's upside for the players in the event of a sale, so "all bets are off" following a sale would likely be a good thing (but I read your original post to say it would be bad because the players would get virtually nothing).

I suppose a new owner could try to do it with amateurs and short stops, but that would be much less likely to attract the dedicated pool fans who might pull in others.
 
Cory in DC

Cory in DC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
How could they go bankrupt? They have zero assets...you can't get blood out of a rock!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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That's why we have limited liability corporations: to promote risk-taking by capping losses at the amount invested. And yes, basic algebra tells you that when one person's liability is limited, someone else gets screwed.

We call it capitalism and it's the worst of all economic systems, except for all the others.

Cory
 
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