"Who Do You Like?": My Breakdown of Mika vs Shane

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
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"Who do you like?"

I ask and get asked this question all the time recently. In this particular case it is in relation to the upcoming Mezz/TAR 19 match with Mika Immonen vs Shane Van Boening. I never get down on one side or the other in any of our matches but I enjoy bench racing and analyzing match ups as much as the next guy so I though I would write down some of my thoughts and see what the reactions and others opinions on the subject are. Away we go....

In another thread mikeyfrost brought up a question based on something I posted a long time ago I call my three rules of pool gambling. To refresh:

JCIN's Three Rules Of Pool Gambling:

1.) Always bet on Shane

2.) Never bet against a Pinoy

3.) If Shane is playing a Pinoy keep your money in your pocket and enjoy the show.

Now Mikey brought up the interesting point: Is Mika an honorary Pinoy and if so how does that jibe with my tried and (usually) true outlook ? This got me thinking and I decided to write my manifesto on all things plus and minus for both guys.

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Breakdown of Shane Van Boening:

Shane is IMO the king of TAR style matches. I make this statement based on seeing all of his performances first hand. The long format plays to many of his strengths and he seems to be able to concentrate in the middle portion of the matches where it is easy for a player to kind of slack off when the finish line is still out of sight. Add to that his experience in playing in the environment of a TAR match, which is kind of unique compared to other types of matches, and he is obviously a formidable opponent for anyone.

STRENGTHS:

The Break
Ask anyone who has the best ten ball break in the world and more people than not will say "Shane Van Boening". If you have ever seen him catch that gear you understand. Second ball goes in the side, one ball comes up by the corner pocket, cue ball jumps up and back off the rack and squats in the middle of the table. Its a wrap from there. The Race to 100 format allows him time to find that gear and IMO this is his biggest weapon by far.

Killer Instinct
One thing Shane has demonstrated in his TAR matches is a killer instinct when he gets a lead. He likes to grind on an opponent when he hits that 8-10 game margin and try to put them away. He demonstrated this most in his matches with Corey and Frost. He had Alex put away on both day two and three but Alex is an alien and Shane got weak at the end of both days but he still had him in the hole at one point. More on this particular match and its effects later.

Experience
Shane is a stone gambler. He loves it. There is a reason he has played so many TAR matches, he loves that one on one winner take all type match. He has played more big money matches against elite players than anyone in recent memory. Some names: Alex, Mills, Frost, Efren, Bustamante and Corey. He didnt win them all but he was in the box with the best in the world.

WEAKNESSES

Safety Play
I should state that neither of these guys have too many if any real technical weaknesses. By saying safety play is a weakness for Shane I mean that I think in relation to Mika he is a little behind. This is my opinion mainly based on a great respect for Mika's safety play and not so much thinking Shane plays bad safeties.

Travel Schedule
Shane is playing a 10 Ball tournament in Nicaragua of all places the weekend before and will arrive in NYC on the 11th the day before the match. He has never been to Amsterdam Billiards or New York City before. While he is a very experienced traveler I think this may play a small factor especially in the first day of play.

WILD CARD
The Alex Factor
By the Alex factor I mean that when Alex came back and beat Shane after being down by what seemed an insurmountable distance it put Shane on a bit of a tilt for sometime. At the time I told Shane that with time it would make him stronger and I think that is the case today. I have seen him play in person more hours in TAR matches than anyone I know and in all those hours Donny Mills had him weaker than anyone I have ever seen. Even more than when Alex came back on him. He looked and acted beat several times during that match. But....instead of giving up he got mad and kept fighting and he managed to win a game some said couldn't be beat and one I don't think anyone on earth is the favorite to win. That said some smart people I have talked to say that the Alex match sticks in their head that Shane can fold in the end so while I personally think he is over the Alex match it could be a factor.

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Breakdown of Mika Immonen

STRENGTHS

Mental Game
Some people will say I am nuts for saying Mika's mental game is one of his biggest strengths because of some his actions at the table such as the arm movements and head tilts and such. Here is the thing though, no one in recent times has had a string of successes on the world stage like Mika has. World Championships, back to back US Open's, major events all over the world. Tournaments are mentally tougher than gambling in certain ways. You MUST perform on demand there is no second set. Mess up in a short tournament race and you are done. Mika has shown that when his back is against the wall under tremendous pressure he can perform.

Heart
I list heart for one reason in particular. Last year at the US Open on the final day I watched all of Mika's matches. He played all day long one tough match after another. In several of them I was positive he was done. But he didnt quit, didnt find an excuse to lose he fought. That day convinced me that Mika takes a back seat to no one when it comes to having the will to win.

Ball Pocketing
Mika is fundamentally a monster. Watch him play and you see that he possesses that rare combination of power and finesse in his game. It really is fun to watch and when he is in gear. He always seems to make the right decisions and consistently pockets the tough shots that come up. He is a top 14.1 player and is technically damn near perfect when it comes to shooting balls in the hole.

WEAKNESSES

Experience
While all of that tournament experience is invaluable and Mika does have more action experience than most people realize or give him credit for; in comparison to Shane he is pretty far behind in big money matches on a major stage. It has been proven that tournament and action matches are two different animals and I think this could play a factor in this match.

Home Field
Another one where people are going to say "You are crazy" but hear me out. While playing in his home room definitely has advantages in my mind it presents at least as many challenges. Mika is very well known at Amsterdam, he is the house pro there, and with all that support comes expectations and demands on his time. People who know him from being in the room all want two minutes to talk, they all want to offer encouragement and everyone wants to offer their two cents on the match. The thing is if he gets off to a slow start I have seen those same home fans start muttering and a weird vibe can come over the home players side. Will it happen here? Who knows but I have seen it before.

The Break
This is only a weakness in comparison to the guy he is playing. Mika will be using the Magic Rack (Shane has yet to declare if he will as well or rack with a traditional rack) this could mitigate some of the distance between the two in this area I really don't know. I know what Shane is going to do eventually in the match, he is going to get the break to work and run like a scalded dog for a couple of hours. The question is can Mika do the same thing when he has his opportunity.

WILD CARD

The Filipino Factor
Mika has spent a good deal of time in the pool capitol of the world. He has gambled with most of the guys there at one time or another and understands what it takes to compete in money matches against top players. So as mikeyfrost asked, is that experience enough to qualify him for rule #2 (see above)? In my opinion? No. That experience is valuable without question and will help him but it just isnt the same as playing to eat everyday like many in that country have done since they were big enough to hit a ball.

SUMMARY

So what does all this rambling come down to? I think our best match ever. We have two of the best players of their era in their primes going head to head. It really doesnt get better than this. In my mind it kind of comes down to an age old question...tournament champion vs action champion. This has happened in some ways before but never at this level and that elite level of play brings the tournament player a lot closer in my mind.

Put a gun to my head and make me pick a guy right now and I have to say Shane for two reasons: The break and his experience in a race to 100. That said I wouldnt give up a single solitary game to Mika and sure as hell wouldnt give up odds. Maybe I am nit but it is a very real possibility Mika could win this thing by 15.

In my opinion for Mika to win he has to keep it close or lead the first day. It is vital that he not let Shane get 8-10 games out on him early if he does his chance of winning plummets. If he comes out and leads by that margin he is obviously in the drivers seat but we have seen Shane overcome that gap against Donny so in my mind we know he can do it and Mika is an unknown so it is a bigger deal for him to not get in a hole early.

I honestly am somewhat biased based simply on my experience of having seen Shane play a lot more than Mika. I dont think Shane does anything better than Mika except when his break works and that doesnt always happen, it can go cold just like anyone else. One thing that would scare me if I had to go heavy on Shane is that I have seen that fire in Mika's eyes when he wants to win and I have always said give me the guy who is really hungry, the guy who is willing to do whatever it takes to win and simply won't give up. Mika has that in him. I am glad I just get to watch this one. If I was free to get down on this I doubt I would other than maybe a small sweat on Shane or if I could get a price on Mika I may go a little heavier.

One prediction I will make is over/under on total games is 189.

So there is my manifesto on Mezz/TAR 19. Single day and three day seating is available now if you can make it to NYC. Get them at http://theactionreport.net/category...91C853F5A568346082.qscstrfrnt03?categoryId=29

The match will be available on streaming Pay Per View with the link to purchase going up on our homepage www.theactionreport.com Monday Oct. 11th

I also want to thank the people who made this possible: Mezz Cues, Amsterdam Billiard Club, Kamui Tips, Spot Clothing,CueSports International, NYC Grind, Simonis Cloth and AZ Billiards.

So lets hear it. Am I stupid, crazy, nuts, genius, perceptive or just full of hot air. What is your opinion on this clash of champions ?
 
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Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
I have to say that you made many valid points and this will be the most exciting TAR match ever IMO. I hope it does well and everyone tunes in for it. I was wondering what your opinions are on the players doing 3 sets, a race to 30 on day one and day 2, then a race to 40 on the final day with a bet on each set. The possibility of one guy winning the first 2 sets and betting it all on the 3rd set or both players each win a set and then betting big on the last set would be pretty exciting also.

I think this would be more appealing to the bettors and people looking to watch it on the stream. I think most people show little interest until the last day and I am sure sales for that day are much better then 1 and 2. I know we are all spectators and just watching these guys do their thing so its ultimately up to them on the format but just thought it was interesting to hear yours and others opinions on it. I am very happy you got it together though as I know its hard for these to come together and kudos to all involved, the backers along with Mika and Shane, oh and also Amsterdam.

P.S.

I would like to bet $50-100 a day with someone to sweat this taking Shane, that means whomever wins the most games for that day wins. :grin:
 

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
We will stream whatever the players want to do and makes a reasonable amount of sense for us to try. I have explained several times why things are done the way they are.

I can think of a million ways to handicap or sweat bet a race to 100. Everything from ahead sets, races, daily totals, daily lines, you could make up a ridiculous number of things that would make it interesting if the overall result takes too long.

One thing is sure. If this match doesn't sell I wont ever worry about doing another one. Its quite possible that there is no audience for these things past the few hundred people who have supported them all along. If that audience decides the format doesnt interest them anymore there is not much anyone can do.

Then we can all talk about "Remember when those guys used to play those races to 100"

Who knows? Maybe everyone would rather talk about abstract cue making techniques, b players matching up and the latest flame thread instead of the winners of the last three US Open's combined matching up and being streamed live over three days for the price of a movie ticket, bucket of popcorn and a coke.
 

Joe Rogan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Man, I REALLY wish I had the time off to be in NYC that weekend to sweat this one. If this really is the end of the TAR matches it's the end of an era that was one of the coolest times in pool.
I sincerely hope you guys keep doing these, even if it's just for my own selfish desire to eventually be there for one of these events live.
 

Fast Lenny

Faster Than You...
Silver Member
I think this will do well Justin, I will do my best to help in anyway I can. I should be streaming once or twice before this goes off so if you do not mind me putting the poster up on the screen here and there and sending people to your site then I will.

I know there are tens of thousands of pool fans we can all collectively reach so if you love TAR and what they are doing then spread the word, word of mouth is big. We all have a minimum of 1000 friends each it seems on Facebook alone, haha, so I think we can get it out to people and if just 10% of 10,000-20,000 people buy it then you will do awesome.
 

derekdisco

We woulda won state!
Silver Member
Man, I REALLY wish I had the time off to be in NYC that weekend to sweat this one. If this really is the end of the TAR matches it's the end of an era that was one of the coolest times in pool.
I sincerely hope you guys keep doing these, even if it's just for my own selfish desire to eventually be there for one of these events live.

Who do you like fool? You take Mika, ill take shane, you put up 50, ill put up my Asian hooker card hooded sweatshirt you like :)
 

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
Man, I REALLY wish I had the time off to be in NYC that weekend to sweat this one. If this really is the end of the TAR matches it's the end of an era that was one of the coolest times in pool.
I sincerely hope you guys keep doing these, even if it's just for my own selfish desire to eventually be there for one of these events live.

I hope like hell it is a beginning that introduces new people rather than an end. Basically it comes down to "If Mika and Shane playing for three days for $25 won't sell what will?" I cant think of anything.

Damn shame you have a real life and actual responsibilities cause having you in the house for this one would be the nuts.

So lets hear it sir. Who do you like?
 

MexPoolPlyr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Playing a race to 100 is a whole different beast. Its like a drawn out ahead set. I think SVB is favorite, but Mika is in good shape. So I think fatigue will not factor in too much for either player. Its gonna be a good ol'e shootout.

I agree with Justin's points. Shane's gear is sick. Mika will have to take a big run from SVB at some point in the match. How he responds will determine the match

The magic rack changes things too. Watch the match and you'll know exactly what Im talking about.... :)

Oscar D
 

Joe Rogan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I hope like hell it is a beginning that introduces new people rather than an end. Basically it comes down to "If Mika and Shane playing for three days for $25 won't sell what will?" I cant think of anything.

Damn shame you have a real life and actual responsibilities cause having you in the house for this one would be the nuts.

So lets hear it sir. Who do you like?

Honestly I can't pick it. I think these guys are SO closely matched that the difference might be Shane's gambling experience and experience in these long sets. Then again, a long race to 100 might be just what Mika needs to get loose and REALLY hit a gear in a way that he's never been able to show in those short tournament races.

I'm gonna be in England while this is going down, but you can bet your sweet ass I'm gonna be up all hours of the night watching. If I have huge bags under my eyes during the UFC broadcast you can take full credit for it :)
 

derekdisco

We woulda won state!
Silver Member
I havnt watched much of Mika play in person, just on a few streams here and there, but every time ive been around him in person, he just seems so nonchalant about everything. Every time I see shane, I imagine him thinking about how he can improve his game, with that silent serious look on his face. I mean I think he thinks about it ALL THE TIME. I mean how else could his head get that big, literally . Right now, Shane is thinking about what he needs to do to win this match, not JUST win it, but win it by like 40 games. And while Mika is in the gym doing push ups, laundry, and tanning, Shane is throwing darts at a dartboard with Mikas picture in the middle. Better yet, I can picture shane having a custom made 1 ball to where it has Mikas face on the ball instead of the 1, and hes been practicing his break night and day.

I expect to see Shane play every game like its his last hill game for the set, and Mika will just play like a run out machine that he is. If Mika can get his break going with the magic rack to where both players breaks are on the same level, we could see our first hill hill race to 100 match.

My prediction, and PLEASE no one quote this and say "well if you think shane will win by that many, ill take Mika and X amount of games and bet it up" But I dont think Mika will break as consistant as Shane, so I will say, Shane 100 Mika 86
 
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JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
Honestly I can't pick it. I think these guys are SO closely matched that the difference might be Shane's gambling experience and experience in these long sets. Then again, a long race to 100 might be just what Mika needs to get loose and REALLY hit a gear in a way that he's never been able to show in those short tournament races.

I'm gonna be in England while this is going down, but you can bet your sweet ass I'm gonna be up all hours of the night watching. If I have huge bags under my eyes during the UFC broadcast you can take full credit for it :)

Thats cool as hell man. Thanks. I got to peep that jacket you are in action for and it is the heat. The best part about Disco losing it would be seeing what he replaces it with. Good luck sir.
 

ironman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
We will stream whatever the players want to do and makes a reasonable amount of sense for us to try. I have explained several times why things are done the way they are.

I can think of a million ways to handicap or sweat bet a race to 100. Everything from ahead sets, races, daily totals, daily lines, you could make up a ridiculous number of things that would make it interesting if the overall result takes too long.

One thing is sure. If this match doesn't sell I wont ever worry about doing another one. Its quite possible that there is no audience for these things past the few hundred people who have supported them all along. If that audience decides the format doesnt interest them anymore there is not much anyone can do.

Then we can all talk about "Remember when those guys used to play those races to 100"

Who knows? Maybe everyone would rather talk about abstract cue making techniques, b players matching up and the latest flame thread instead of the winners of the last three US Open's combined matching up and being streamed live over three days for the price of a movie ticket, bucket of popcorn and a coke.

You may well answer a question for a lot of people and pool in genera.Personally I hope you do well and knock the cover off the ball.l
 

"CaliRed".

High Def Videos!!!
Silver Member
I'm gonna be in England while this is going down, but you can bet your sweet ass I'm gonna be up all hours of the night watching. If I have huge bags under my eyes during the UFC broadcast you can take full credit for it :)

They like potting balls over there, so be sure to pay some lackey over there to tape up a bunch of TAR posters all over the place.

Maybe we can photoshop a picture of Frank Mir in a TAR tshirt, holding a cue, with a caption of "When I'm not punching someone in the face, or ramming my elbows into someone's skull and twisting their leg till it's about to snap, I do what real men do..... I watch TAR where 2 men face off in the rectangle until someone taps out. See it live on Oct 12, 13th and 14th at theactionreport.com
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
The Big Match

This is definitely one of TAR's best and I plan to buy it, even if I can only watch part of it. TAR has done a remarkable job of bringing pool to the people! These matches have been classics in the pool world and there just hasn't been anything like it before or since. TAR has spawned a whole slew of imitators and that's a good thing imo. Alex vs. Shane and the amazing comeback Alex made will always be #1 imo. But who knows what will happen in NYC in two weeks.

Justin has done a great job of handicapping this match. There is not much I can add to his evaluation. But I'll try anyway. I think the travel factor is bigger than he thinks. No way can anyone make that long trip and be unaffected the next day. It takes a minimum of two days to unravel from a trip like that. So I like Mika to start strong on day one. I also give more points to the home court and Mika. He always plays well when he is in a comfortable environment. And what could be more comfortable for him than the home court, with all his friends in attendance.

Plus Mika is on top of his rather formidable pool game right now and actually has been for over two years now. In case you didn't know, he is one GREAT pool player! It's no accident he was Player of the Year two years running. And he has fared well in his matches with Shane, both winning and losing. That's also an important factor. Mika knows what he has to do to win here. He has played Shane many times, usually in big matches. His endurance is second to none as well. Easily equal to Shane's.

I see Mika as being more consistent and more prepared in this match-up and for that reason I pick him to win. He also has something to prove here, that he can win a long gambling/challenge match. I'm sitting this one out so don't ask me to gamble. I like both of these guys and I have to face them days later in Norfolk. And if I'm gambling I tend to sweat too much, which takes some of the enjoyment out of it for me. Exactly why I never bet on matches when I'm in the booth. I know it could affect my commentary. If I'm not gambling, I can sit back and enjoy the festivities, which is what I intend to do here. I haven't bought many TAR matches, because sometimes I work on them and sometimes I have been given the feed free for past services. Thank you Chad. This time, I won't ask and will pay, just like all of you. One thing this match should do, is get both these guys in dead stroke for the Open, which starts soon after. They will both be tough to beat the following week.

I'd like to think that technology has finally caught up with the genius of TAR and they now have a product that will have wide spread appeal. I'd like to see over a thousand people buy this one. That would be a good score for TAR and assure us of many more similar match-ups. I'd like to see the winner of this one go up against Dennis Hatch. And I'd like to see Dennis play ANY Pinoy, but that's just me. I'm big on the Hatchetman and his game. He made a true believer out of me at last year's Mosconi Cup. He was the heart and soul of Team America! They couldn't and wouldn't have won without him! Period! Dennis fears no one!
 
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jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Honestly I can't pick it. I think these guys are SO closely matched that the difference might be Shane's gambling experience and experience in these long sets. Then again, a long race to 100 might be just what Mika needs to get loose and REALLY hit a gear in a way that he's never been able to show in those short tournament races.

I'm gonna be in England while this is going down, but you can bet your sweet ass I'm gonna be up all hours of the night watching. If I have huge bags under my eyes during the UFC broadcast you can take full credit for it :)

Dude! The U.S. Open is Oct. 17-23 in Norfolk. That's the grand daddy of all American pool tournaments, and it will feature many of the best players in the world, including a host of Pinoy killers. I'd love to see you there and I'd love to see you get back in the booth doing pool commentary. Accu-Stats actually pays their commentators and I know how badly you need the dough. :help:

The whole world knows you as a UFC commentator, but this is your chance to let them know you can do pool too. These shows will air all over the world (tape delay of course). Plus you will have a blast if you come. An auditorium full of pool freaks and geeks. A lot of very cool people show up at the Open every year to sweat the big boys. Why not you? You'd love it if you came and might even be able to mooch a free meal or two. :rotflmao:
 

Gerry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I always liked the TAR crew, BUT.....you guys bring out a term like.......BENCH RACING! while talking about pool....and now I like you even more!

for all of you who aren't into motor sports.......it's like handicapping horses or picking a winner.


or...trying to figure out who will win while the engines are still on the bench.....

or "flow bench" which is a tool for adjusting carburators to maximum performance.
 

metallicane

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Great analysis by Justin and Jay. I can't wait to see the match. I am picking Shane.

I would also love to see Joe doing some Accu-stats in Norfolk.
 
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