$200 for a billiard university diploma!!

This is for Dr. Dave: A little humor for dealing with billiard bunglers! :cool:

Sorry its so small...use your browsers magnifying tool or settings

1850 Bunglers.jpg
 
Mr. Wilson said:
That's a shame. Kinda makes you an arm chair quarterback more than a consumer advocate...don't you think?

Maybe a big fish in a very, very little pond.....but there is not just one but vast oceans you admit to not spending any time in.

Just what would put you in touch with what the consumers of these products want?
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So-called billiard university is a web site. Consumers are web users. I haven't watched all the participants, but the one's I've watched all play from home. They upload their videos to You Tube. Pool rooms are not involved. So as someone who doesn't get out much and wishes to contribute something to the pool community, I think turning my writing into some consumer advocacy from my computer is the perfect way to do it.
 
His Boy Elroy said:
As I said, I have nothing against the test . It's a fine test. I'm sure much thought and work was put into devising it. I've watched people take it. I'm sure people have enjoyed taking it and I'm sure it has enriched their pool lives..

In fact, if instead of giving the test away for free, the devisors had put it out in DVD form and charged $19.95 or even $29.95 for it, I would have no problem whatsoever. So the question then arises: Why didn't they put the test out in DVD form. the logical answer is that they obviously thought it wouldn't sell enough to be profitable.

Nevertheless, they wanted to devise a pool test and they wanted to profit from it. They had to figure out a way to do this. They came up with the idea of a pool site called "Pool University." They gave the impression that this was a pool site where such a vast amount of pool knowledge exists and where so many major figures in the pool world contributed, that calling it a university was justified.

They then came up with the idea of giving out degrees and calling them by the same names academic universities call them...bachelors, masters, masters with honors, and doctorate. To earn one of these degrees a person was required to send a video to pool university at which time a billiard university representative would confirm a score as legitimate and send back a corresponding degree...bachelors, masters, masters with
honors, and doctorate.

They promoted the idea that obtaining a degree from billiard university was desirable because it was a recognition of accomplishment from a web site founded by some of the most well known instructors in America; a web site where such a vast amount of pool knowledge exists and where so many major figures in the pool world contributed that calling it a university was justified

In fact, nothing over at that web site justifies calling it a university. If anyone thinks that this is a web site where such a vast amount of pool knowledge exists and where so many major figures contribute that calling it a university is justified, go have a look yourself. www.billiarduniversity.org. There's the test. That's about it. There are some instructional dvd's on sale, information about a 3 day teaching clinic that's going to held next July and a lot of previously published articles from Dr. Dave. Basically the site is all about the test. That's it!

The obvious implied reason they feel justified in charging $150 to $200 for a so-called degree is that is that the 8 founding instructors consider themselves of such renown that they deserved to be paid that much simply for bestowing their opinion that a person who scores such and such on their test deserves such and such degree This is of course a test they obviously thought they could not profit from if they sold it in DVD form for 19.95. Otherwise they would have done it.

So basically, what they want to do is take $150 dollars from people, put it straight in their pockets, and in exchange say "Thanks For the money Doctor."

This is ridiculous! As I said this is a fine test. If you perceive that people want recognition of their skill status that's fine. Charge them $29.95. That will cover the cost of the work put into devising the test, the work put into evaluating it, and the certificate itself; and stop calling the recognitions by the same names academic degrees are called.

Dr.Dave,
I've been told in private posts you're a good guy. The instructors are probably good guys too. Therefore I regret some of my harsh tone in previous posts, although I'm not going to apologize. Consciously or unconsciously, you guys are trying to target and take advantage of people without critical thinking skills and simply pocket their money. A lot of highly intelligent people might like a recognition of skills certificate if you charged $29.95. No one but a person sorely lacking in critical thinking skills is going to pay you $150 to $200

So I'll assume your all good guys and you don't want to take advantage of people and you simply haven't thought all this through. So my suggestion is: Why don't you give it some thought.
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Did you guys read the bottom of that post. I was basically saying that I was not going to apologize for my assertions, I regret the harsh tone. What they're doing is so obviously wrong, but upon further reflection maybe it wasn't intentional. I thought maybe they were good guys and weren't intentionally doing anything wrong. I thought maybe in my first post I should have simply pointed that out instead of being harsh.

So what does the Dr. Do? He makes some smart-assed comment about how I should seek a counselor and try and sort out these feelings. That's what set me off.

Have you read these explanations from the Dr. Where he lists why these tests cost $200. It's all vagueness and double talk. They're charging $200 and $3.50 for shipping and handling. Someone watches a video on You Tube for an hour, confirms the score, they put a diploma in an envelope and mail it

So maybe the diploma cost $25. Let's pay $30 for the test itself if they think diploma winners should pay for the test even though everyone else gets it for free. I really have no problem with that. Let's pay the test observer $20. Let' just throw in $10 some where else. So what's the justification for the other $115. Someone explain it to me cause if I'm wrong I want to know; and Doc; please don't list all the reasons again because it's just all vagueness and double talk.
 
Who exactly owes you an explanation..and why?
I know you don't realize it, but you are very close to joining English.

Your contributions to the thread are not what I'd consider constructive.


His Boy Elroy said:
Did you guys read the bottom of that post. I was basically saying that I was not going to apologize for my assertions, I regret the harsh tone. What they're doing is so obviously wrong, but upon further reflection maybe it wasn't intentional. I thought maybe they were good guys and weren't intentionally doing anything wrong. I thought maybe in my first post I should have simply pointed that out instead of being harsh.

So what does the Dr. Do? He makes some smart-assed comment about how I should seek a counselor and try and sort out these feelings. That's what set me off.

Have you read these explanations from the Dr. Where he lists why these tests cost $200. It's all vagueness and double talk. They're charging $200 and $3.50 for shipping and handling. Someone watches a video on You Tube for an hour, confirms the score, they put a diploma in an envelope and mail it

So maybe the diploma cost $25. Let's pay $30 for the test itself if they think diploma winners should pay for the test even though everyone else gets it for free. I really have no problem with that. Let's pay the test observer $20. Let' just throw in $10 some where else. So what's the justification for the other $115. Someone explain it to me cause if I'm wrong I want to know; and Doc; please don't list all the reasons again because it's just all vagueness and double talk.
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Straightpool_99 said:
I agree with this post. I don't even live in the US so why would I care about the identities of the people posting, whom I will most likely never meet anyway. Having a known identity might offer some credibility regarding ones ability, but really I try to evaluate the value of each post individually. Some of the best posts have been from anonymous people. Dr.Dave obviously have a lot of credibility in the field of physics and pool, but if someone were to challenge facts on his website with factual information (maths, physics and video) I would not dismiss it out of hand even if the poster was anonymous. This thread has not been such a fact-based attack but rather a series of misunderstandings and attempted trolling and sadly slandering and character attacks.

The issue i have with this thread is not the anonymity of the poster, but the content of his (their) posts. Slandering someone should not be ok, regardless of the persons identity (known or unknown). But at least some of us have learned the managements views on anonymous posters, most enlightening I must say.
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Triple Tap! (I have more to say but prudence is the better part of valor as the saying goes)
 
His Boy Elroy said:
Did you guys read the bottom of that post. I was basically saying that I was not going to apologize for my assertions, I regret the harsh tone. What they're doing is so obviously wrong, but upon further reflection maybe it wasn't intentional. I thought maybe they were good guys and weren't intentionally doing anything wrong. I thought maybe in my first post I should have simply pointed that out instead of being harsh.

So what does the Dr. Do? He makes some smart-assed comment about how I should seek a counselor and try and sort out these feelings. That's what set me off.

Have you read these explanations from the Dr. Where he lists why these tests cost $200. It's all vagueness and double talk. They're charging $200 and $3.50 for shipping and handling. Someone watches a video on You Tube for an hour, confirms the score, they put a diploma in an envelope and mail it

So maybe the diploma cost $25. Let's pay $30 for the test itself if they think diploma winners should pay for the test even though everyone else gets it for free. I really have no problem with that. Let's pay the test observer $20. Let' just throw in $10 some where else. So what's the justification for the other $115. Someone explain it to me cause if I'm wrong I want to know; and Doc; please don't list all the reasons again because it's just all vagueness and double talk.
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You cant really be this dense.

Here's the justification:

Dr Dave can charge anything he wants for his product because we live in a free society. Happily, you dont have use this product because we live in a free society.

Are you just chafed because Dave's time is worth more than yours?

HTH

PS I would expand on this, but I've been busy writing Ernie a letter explaining to him why I should only pay $250 for the Gina I want.
 
Mr. Bond said:
This is for Dr. Dave: A little humor for dealing with billiard bunglers! :cool: ...
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Thanks for posting that, Mr. Bond. I particularly liked the last two paragraphs, about the communicative bore. He/she is to be found in great abundance upon this earth.
 
I am starting to wonder if the OP is on another forum ranting about how Best Buy might not actually always be the Best Buy and how they are committing serious fraud. Is he concerned that Pizza Hut is not a hut at all?

I mean it is a free enterprise system. Find people to pay you for what you do. You complain that the degree costs $200 and then try to break it down into $30 for the test itself and $25 for the diploma and so on then can't figure out where the other $115 is going. Are you factoring in the time and money that went into making all of the material that they actually make available for free? Companies would refer to this time and money as Research and Development. Sometimes they will make this type of technology available for free to the general public.

Do you look at products when you are at stores and then break them down piece by piece to decide what they actually cost so that if you cannot account for every cent you go call the manager a fraud? No? Yeah that is because people can charge for things as they please. If you do not want to pay, then don't.
 
Join English, I think he is English.


Mr. Wilson said:
Who exactly owes you an explanation..and why?
I know you don't realize it, but you are very close to joining English.

Your contributions to the thread are not what I'd consider constructive.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
Elroy/Tim / English / Rick /

Whoever you are.

Please contact Cisco for me. I have 7 certifications from them that cost between 200 - 300 each. For each certification had to take a test based on their course material and all I got for it are some certificates printed on cheap paper and my name listed on their site.

Maybe you can influence them to change their pricing scheme?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
berko said:
You cant really be this dense.

Here's the justification:

Dr Dave can charge anything he wants for his product because we live in a free society. Happily, you dont have use this product because we live in a free society.

Are you just chafed because Dave's time is worth more than yours?

HTH

PS I would expand on this, but I've been busy writing Ernie a letter explaining to him why I should only pay $250 for the Gina I want.
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Berko:

I think you hit the nail on the head with the bolded parts. A couple things to add:

1. We live in what I like to call the "want = have" ("want equals have") society. In other words, if you want it, you should have it. One is a direct connection to the other. It seems the more society becomes civilized, the more it becomes "cro-magnonized" / neanderthaled. (Yes, I know I made two nouns into verbs.) Whereas in the [less-technologically-sophisticated] past, people understood that there is an effort required to get certain things -- that they had to earn it -- nowadays, people expect their "wants" to be fulfilled with the cheapest possible effort. Just sit back behind your cell phone, twiddle it with your thumbs, and presto -- it arrives on your doorstep for $40 or less. Want a Gina cue? By golly, you should "have" it -- and for a cheap price, too. Afterall, "want = have." "I want it, therefore, I should have it." Oh, that Gina costs thousands of dollars? That sh*t ain't right -- is Ernie out of his f'ing mind to charge that much for a cue? Damn it, I "want" it! Doesn't he understand that this high price is not letting me "have" it?

2. Apparently, the antagonists in this thread are forgetting that they live in a free society, or that they are forgetting that the word "free" means freedom; "free" doesn't mean "to have, at little to no cost."

3. What's interesting is that the antagonists in this thread are whining and griping about things they don't even want. Now, on top of the "entitlement" issues I outlined above (which are parasitic problems enough), they are whining about the costs of entitlement for products that don't even concern them?

You can see the insanity here.

-Sean
 
Mr. Wilson said:
Who exactly owes you an explanation..and why?
I know you don't realize it, but you are very close to joining English.
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I personally thought he should have preceded English many, many, many posts ago.

Here's an excerpt from one of my previous posts explaining why:

... what I didn't appreciate was the relentless negativity, criticism, nit-picking, and confrontation both from Elroy and "English!" (AKA Rick). I also didn't appreciate being called a "shyster and a fraud" in an emphatic and slanderous way. People that do that will no longer get my respect, nor will I respond to them in the future.

Honestly, I am surprised Rick was banned and Elroy was not. The amount of negativity, abuse, criticism, confrontation, disregard for forum etiquette, total lack of personal respect, and slander that Elroy dished out in this thread makes Rick look like a quiet and respectful angel (which he obviously is not).

Thank you in advance for helping to keep this forum a place that pool enthusiasts, instructors, authors, and players might want to continue to visit in the future.

Best regards,
Dave
 
More irony:

" October is officially Connected Educator Month 2013 (CEM), part of an initiative from the the U. S. Department of Education’s Office of Educational Technology. Online instructors, and online students preparing to work in the field of education, can expect a “month-long celebration of community, with educators at all levels, from all disciplines, moving towards a fully connected and collaborative profession.”

Imagine that, our government is not only condoning but also encouraging the online "university" scam. What kind of world do we live in where schools are not even required to have walls anymore? It's downright scary.
 
Tony_in_MD said:
For over a month I have been believing that English and Elroy are one in the same.

Never thought about Fast Larry though.
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Elroy = Champ, Canada's second largest disgrace after Beiber, tied with the Vancouver riots.

Ron Swanson = Tim, a bitter young Englishman

Pathetic Shark = Tim, a bitter young Englishman

Yes Tim, I know you have more accounts...

Rick = Larry who says he is blessed with an IQ of 182 but can neither spell nor prove it, UPA World Trickshot Champion in a contest no one ever competed in but he still snatched it from the B side, Professional Instructor who can't pass an instructors test, who had two front teeth knocked out for his out-of-control horsecrap on RSB, and let us never forget, 47 years of playing experience but can't post a video of his play...
 
Mr. Wilson said:
First, you are an anonymous member who has opinions about a well known person and sniping from your anonymous location.

I personally refuse to take anyone who needs a mask of anonymity seriously, including their opinions. They simply don't count at all.

An anonymous internet opinion is less than useless.
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For the following reasons, I have to respectfully disagree with this:

- If posters were required to use their "real names," the level of participation on the AZB forums would drop by over 75%.
- Unless AZB wants to get into verifying people's identities, there is no way to prove that someone who is posting with their "real" name is actually their real name.
- Regardless of whether a poster chooses to be anonymous or use their real name, what a person says and how they say it ultimately matters more than whether they decide to use their real name when expressing themselves.
- Finally, there are some posters here who do use their real names when posting but it hasn't stopped them from being a--holes. :rolleyes:
 
Neil said:
Some won't take it just because they don't want to face reality. They are afraid they will do poorly on it, and don't want to face that fact. Because if they do take it, then they will have shown to them in no uncertain terms that they are weak in certain areas that they thought they were strong in. Sometimes that is a hard thing to face- reality. But, until one does face reality, there can be no improvement.
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dr_dave said:
I hope this thread has exposed the BU to some AZB'ers who haven't tried the BU playing-ability exams yet. If that is the case, please try them out and consider posting scores (and videos if possible) on the AZB BU thread. It would interesting to see how a wide range of AZB users rate.
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I know how badly I play. But solely to give Champ and Larry a great big GFY I'm going to have to find a way to take this now (I can't really go putting reinforcements on the table at the poolhall). Even when I fail to make a score high enough to get a diploma I'll pay the $200.
 
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