buddha162 said:
eheheheh he said anal eheheheh
8 BALL - A true test for world class players?
- Thread starter TheOne
- Start date
eheheheh he said anal eheheheh
Celtic, by "My Game" I was referring too the game I had before I stopped playing to go to Uni and work for 10 years, the game I had when I was playing 12 hours a day and the game I could get back if I decided/had the means to take it seriously again.
Arrogance and confidence are often misconstrued but if you ever met me in person I hope you wouldn't call me arrogant. But I strongly believe in any sport you have to believe you are the best, I would suspect most top pool players think that deep down if you asked them (some not so deep
) Some of my fav reads of this board are old story's, I loved the book "playing of the rail", but I wouldn't consider either bragging. Quite a lot of "bragging" goes on on this board, and I am probably as guilty as anyone but I try to just share what I've achieved whether it be a high run in practice or playing Efren in Manila. Many people emailed me and said they enjoyed it. The funny thing is I haven't even got around to finishing the story about Efren and many other tourney’s on my site, so I must be a part time bragger too! 
The two guys I lost to in the US Open where referred to as "short stops" on this board which I thought was meant in an insulting way. I still consider a short stop as a derogatory term.
PS
Cheers Colin/LastTwo
Arrogance and confidence are often misconstrued but if you ever met me in person I hope you wouldn't call me arrogant. But I strongly believe in any sport you have to believe you are the best, I would suspect most top pool players think that deep down if you asked them (some not so deep
) Some of my fav reads of this board are old story's, I loved the book "playing of the rail", but I wouldn't consider either bragging. Quite a lot of "bragging" goes on on this board, and I am probably as guilty as anyone but I try to just share what I've achieved whether it be a high run in practice or playing Efren in Manila. Many people emailed me and said they enjoyed it. The funny thing is I haven't even got around to finishing the story about Efren and many other tourney’s on my site, so I must be a part time bragger too! The two guys I lost to in the US Open where referred to as "short stops" on this board which I thought was meant in an insulting way. I still consider a short stop as a derogatory term.
PS
Cheers Colin/LastTwo
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I live in the UK and I primarily play UK version 8ball and I have to say that I think the American version of 8ball is pretty embarassing, the 9ft tables are just far too easy to play on for 8ball and the pocket size is huge, this makes the game too easy. In the UK there is a lot more emphasis on the tactical side of the game and whilst the top players can run out they are maybe looking at a 30-40% success rate.
I have played 9ball maybe 8 or 9 times in my life and I think that on the bigger table it is a far more challenging game (than 8ball on the same table) but I do hate some of the early combos on the 9 (think they should all be call shots), I am a reasonable pool player (county standard) and I was able to run out a rack on only my third time of playing 9ball (this equates to about 5-6 hrs table time), the one thing I would say though that seperates 9ball is the cue ball control for position is far harder in 9ball so although a player like myself can run the occasional rack a good player would do this far more frequently.
I have played 9ball maybe 8 or 9 times in my life and I think that on the bigger table it is a far more challenging game (than 8ball on the same table) but I do hate some of the early combos on the 9 (think they should all be call shots), I am a reasonable pool player (county standard) and I was able to run out a rack on only my third time of playing 9ball (this equates to about 5-6 hrs table time), the one thing I would say though that seperates 9ball is the cue ball control for position is far harder in 9ball so although a player like myself can run the occasional rack a good player would do this far more frequently.
TheOne said:
"Shortstop" is simply a level of player. Most shortstops have a shot at cashing a JOSS tour event (one of the two strongest satellite tours in the US) with an outside shot at winning one here and there. They are a step below the seasoned professionals who travel the country, and a few steps below the upper echelon players.
IMO, Karen Corr is at the shortstop level.
Fred <~~~ ducking
TheOne said:Celtic, by "My Game" I was referring too the game I had before I stopped playing to go to Uni and work for 10 years, the game I had when I was playing 12 hours a day and the game I could get back if I decided/had the means to take it seriously again.
Arrogance and confidence are often misconstrued but if you ever met me in person I hope you wouldn't call me arrogant. But I strongly believe in any sport you have to believe you are the best, I would suspect most top pool players think that deep down if you asked them (some not so deep
The two guys I lost to in the US Open where referred to as "short stops" on this board which I thought was meant in an insulting way. I still consider a short stop as a derogatory term.
PS
Cheers Colin/LastTwo
Short stop by no means has a reflection to the future or the past, rather right now. Given your heart and desire you may quickly reach seasoned pro.
From what I hear from players here is that you've got game and I believe it. Do not let it become a negative to you or even a resting ground, keep moving forward and my vcash will be on TheOne.
Oops, were is the vcash. In any event my vote will be with you.
TheOne said:
You see I "don't" consider shortstop as a derogatory term. I see it as a term that implies a person is at the semi-pro level, which is why in my original post I said "semi-pro/shortstop level" as if they are one in the same. Therefore when I was calling you a good "shortstop" I was actually placing you on a pretty high level of play of upper echelon semi-pro, and you took offense to it.
Your book you mention has an episode in it when Tony runs into Paul Potier and he is basically construed as a "shortstop" as he smokes some local for cash. I pretty much agree that Paul Potier is in fact a shortstop, but if you know how he plays then you would know that he is an extremely talented player. Other people I would consider a shortstop are Tommy Kennedy, Joey Korsiak, Santos Sambojon, Glen Atwel, and other extremely gifted players that are just a step below that upper echelon of players such as Efren, Archer, Bustamenta, Hohman, Feijen, ect... I am sorry but I dont see you along side Pagulayan, Wu, and the other top players, I see you on the step below with players that are nevertheless tremendously talented. Most players dont have a prayer of ever even reaching the shortstop level of play as I define it and Mark Tadd explained it.
I viewed your webcite. I do not think its out of line at all to characterize you as a shortstop. Actually I think that would be a compliment by most people's standard's. Some poster listed tommy kennedy as a short stop and he won the us open back in the 90s. You should be proud to be put in the same category as tommy. Remember that message boards such as this are an incomplete form of communication.
By the way is that a guy in your avator? The one in the bikini is kind of built like a dude.
By the way is that a guy in your avator? The one in the bikini is kind of built like a dude.
Celtic said:
Maybe it's just because the term 'Shortstop' is not used in Australia or UK that we perceive it differently
O
onepocketchump
Guest
whitewolf said:Could be that the IPT is making the tables easy to accomodate the ladies and the old timers.
This begs the question though as to who exactly will benefit from the huge pockets?
Um, 4.5inch pockets are plenty tough. I don't recall any US Open with less than 4" pockets. I must have missed one. Less than 4" is inhumane and forces a different game. You all may think that it favors the better player but you would be wrong. Tighter pockets force all players to adjust their games radically so that they are not going for the outs they normally would because they are afraid of the pockets. With 4.25 inch pockets and tighter you will see much more conservative (boring) play.
I think 4.5 inch pockets are just the right balance to play on.
John
onepocketchump said:
The non-TV tables at this years US Open were 3/16th smaller then the TV table according to JAM. The TV table was at best 4 1/4. So perhaps the pockets on the non-TV tables were 4 1/16th at best if the TV table was in fact 4 1/4, and that makes the IPT pockets buckets by comparison. The pro's were having no issues making balls on the TV table. And people I have talked to said while the non-TV tables were indeed tight there were still very few misses by the top players. The little bit of footage I watched of the non-TV tables showed me this was likely true.
I cannot see 4 1/2 inch pockets being sufficiently tight in 8-ball for the pro's and dont expect it too last.
simplified view
Trying to keep it simple.
For most of the game, 8-ball if you mess up a leave there are sometimes an alternate shot to get you out of trouble. Through out the game, of 9-Ball when you mess up a leave, your stuck with it.
I know that balls can get tied up much more often in 8-Ball, however, there are usually many options on what to do with those. In 9-Ball, there is usually only a few safties available and or you just plain have to break them out on a shot. You can't just shoot a ball to group more balls together and so forth in 9-Ball.
This may be over simplified, but it is truley how I look at it.
Trying to keep it simple.
For most of the game, 8-ball if you mess up a leave there are sometimes an alternate shot to get you out of trouble. Through out the game, of 9-Ball when you mess up a leave, your stuck with it.
I know that balls can get tied up much more often in 8-Ball, however, there are usually many options on what to do with those. In 9-Ball, there is usually only a few safties available and or you just plain have to break them out on a shot. You can't just shoot a ball to group more balls together and so forth in 9-Ball.
This may be over simplified, but it is truley how I look at it.
mnorwood said:
LOL, prob the fittest girl Ive ever seen, not seen many blokes that look like that but I'm not usually looking at them ;-)
It was taken in the beach night club in Vegas a couple of years ago.
Colin, your probably right, maybe its just to "us" it sounds rude but maybe not. I actually think Celtic didn't mean it as a compliment but thats ok. I see so many different opinions on what it means and I wouldn't like to be descirbed as many of them. For example take the World Summit, 64 fine players in that event. I wonder how many of them would describe themselves as a "shortstop" if asked? Also how many of them would like it if celtic or anyone went up to them and said, "hey you play like a really good short stop". I may be wrong but I'm guessing NONE on both counts?
But anyway this is getting a bit off topic, back to the thread ;-)
TheOne said:
TheHalfaTwo,
I certainly can't speak for anyone's intentions, but maybe you guys have a cultural issue. I think there are a large number of people on this continent (including me) who think a "shortstop" is pretty darn good - just short of the top pro's (who don't have a day job). He is usually the best player in your city or town, but doesn't make a handsome living at pool. Probably half the entrants at Derby City could be considered by some as shortstops. It just depends on your definition, but please don't be offended by the designation. Many would consider any pool player with a real job a "shortstop." Maybe once there is more money in pool there will be more "pro's" and fewer "shortstops" to the people who feel this way.
Of course, if someone's definition is just a good amateur player at your local bar, then feel free to be offended.
TheOne said:
Sir,
Make no mistake, it is a very negative term and meant to be negative.
That is the way pool is a America's society. Mainstream society does not like those excel at pool and jump down our throats every time we mention one accomplishment. Once they have quieted or humbled us, they come back and want to kiss our asses to selfishly ease their own consience. That is the way it has ben and looks like it will always be. It is nothing more than selfish behavior.
This is a tough game and it takes a pretty tough indiviual to be more than a, let's say just another player. I t takes hours and often years to gain what some do in seemingly months. Is it worth it? well, that is entirely up to the individual.
Most are jealous because they do not take the time to get there or just don't have the ability. All are not create equally. It is hard though when one works his butt off, goes out, pays his entry, and has a good event and finishes 9-12 and really plays well and feels good about himself only to be refered to as just another player, or a good shortstop.
At the risk of sounding like a Dime Store psychologist, words are just words. They only affect us if we buy into it.
My advice, use it as motivation and inspiration and the concentrate on the game.
Be well!
I don't see why there's such a problem with being labeled a "Shortstop"? Celtic is not out of line in any way. Colin and TheOne may not be used to the term because of where they are from, but from here in the U.S., a shortstop plays good. A shortstop is not Joe Blow that keeps the table at the bar for 3 hours playing for beers. A shortstop is the guy that plays every tournament and knocks out maybe 2 or 3 top players because he has the game to do it, finishes 9-12, 5-6, top 3 once or twice, and even wins once in awhile. When I played my best, if someone said I was a shortstop in the middle of the players I played around, I'd be honored. That's not to say that I'm in the middle of the pack, but there has to be the best player and I know I wasn't it. I played around real good players, Morro Paez, Ernesto Dominguez, Francisco Galindo, Rafael Martinez, Keith, Kim Davenport, Tony Annigoni, and plenty more, each and every time I showed up for a tournament. Hell, call me the worst in that group, I don't mind, but when they showed up at the table, they knew I was there to play. Not one of them had to beat me in a tournament and they knew that. But, it was when I played what I felt was a lesser player than me, sometimes I found a way to lose. I'm talking about guys that I would give the 8, maybe even the 7, for the money. The shortstops in the pool world are the majority at tournaments, IMO. In a 200 player field, maybe 20 have a great chance to win. 50 have absolutely no chance. The rest are shortstops who can get a good draw, get the rolls, and play well, and if they get lucky, they can win. What's wrong with being a shortstop? TheOne, it really isn't a negative thing to be called a shortstop. Peace, John.
Rude Dog said:
RD,
I certainly agree (though obviously some people have a different definition).
To go further, it is the shortstops that the road players and champions seek out - the shortstop has the game to compete with champions and, on his home turf, even beat the champion. To me the designation would be a badge of honor, not an insult.
ironman said:
Ferrous-man,
Excellent "Roadhouse" Patrick Swayzee reference. I do not disagree with you; I understand it means different things to different people (based on locale or experience). I understand that it IS a derogatory comment for some people. I was just trying to support the point to TheOne that it isn't necessarily derogatory for everyone.