A real creep

[ShootingArts]

some sharply different stories

This was my 2nd trip to Kolby's. Jimmy was sick my first trip but I heard he could play. As far as being in the top 5 in Arizona, I doubt it. They have quite a few good players. I was told by a friend it would be a tough game for me. That usually doesn't stop me if I want to play and think I have any chance.

If Grady would have asked me, I would have told him I had heard Jimmy would be a tough game for me. He didn't ask and if they don't, I keep my nose out of their game, just as I believe you would.

I expected a tougher game, and as Grady stated, he just was not himself. I think I actually played a little better in the tournament than I did in our match, but at my age, lack of consistency shows up quite often.

I hope all of us have quite a few years of pool left in us.

John,

I have absolutely no problems with your behavior and as you say I would have probably done exactly the same in your shoes. Reading the various versions of what happened I do have some reservations about the behavior of others. I wasn't there and I think I'll leave it at that.

Hu

 

[SpinDoctor]

I just can't understand what Grady was thinking. He walks into a room where everyone knows who he is and takes on someone without a clue how the guy plays AND gives him weight.

Was Grady a great player in his time? Yes. Do I think that his previous abilities should give him a free pass now? Absolutely not. I find it very hard to feel sorry for someone who has filled his own bank account doing exactly what was done to him. If anything, the years of hustling should have taught him to avoid stepping into traps just like this.

I find it pretty funny that someone who wears his past like a red badge of courage is angry when he is on the receiving end. It's not nearly as funny when the rabbit gets a hold of the gun now is it?

 

[billychips]

I just can't understand what Grady was thinking. He walks into a room where everyone knows who he is and takes on someone without a clue how the guy plays AND gives him weight.

Was Grady a great player in his time? Yes. Do I think that his previous abilities should give him a free pass now? Absolutely not. I find it very hard to feel sorry for someone who has filled his own bank account doing exactly what was done to him. If anything, the years of hustling should have taught him to avoid stepping into traps just like this.

I find it pretty funny that someone who wears his past like a red badge of courage is angry when he is on the receiving end. It's not nearly as funny when the rabbit gets a hold of the gun now is it?

Very nice post! Dead on.

 

[stuckart]

This is a very sad thread IMO. Watching Grady play on the stream was sad as well. I felt bad for him and commented numerous times on the chat as to why he was 1 stroking every shot.

Personally, I've seen people fall apart playing on a stream and I wouldn't think it would be too far off of a guess for a player of his age to not want to show the potential audience (which you never know who is watching) that you are a little shaky in your old age.

Having all the greats in the booth was an absolute pleasure! I'm new to this game, but not the game of pool, and I learned a bunch from everyone just on thought process.

I know the so-called "Creep" and many people that were there for the entire thing. Lenny's story was almost exact and I think it's disrespectful of anyone to call the owner of Kolby's a Creep because of this! I think all the persons that feel people should not flame Grady for his posts need to chill out. Grady flamed a Pool Room Owner, Kolby's and the people of Arizona.

That's it, I'm leaving work early to go down to Kolby's and get a Hustler Chicken Sandwich!

 

[jimmyg]

I hope some of you remember what you wrote in this thread when your 80 year old grandfather, with Alzheimer's, craps his pants and then complains about it.

First remember to blame him, then remember to insult him and call him names, after all it is his fault. Tell him not to be a "crybaby", or "whine", and that he "deserves" it for being too old and sick to help himself. Also complain that you have to clean him up, and remind him that he isn't entitled to anything, including respect, regardless of his past good deeds to you and your family.

Oh yea, do it all in public.

It is the same.

Jim

 

[dabarbr]

I hope some of you remember what you wrote in this thread when your 80 year old grandfather, with Alzheimer's, craps his pants and then complains about it.

First remember to blame him, then remember to insult him and call him names, after all it is his fault. Tell him not to be a "crybaby", or "whine", and that he "deserves" it for being too old and sick to help himself. Also complain that you have to clean him up, and that he isn't entitled to anything, including respect, regardless of his past good deeds to you and your family.

Oh yea, do it all in public.

It is the same.

Jim

Nice post. It actually brought a tear to my eyes.

 

[billychips]

I hope some of you remember what you wrote in this thread when your 80 year old grandfather, with Alzheimer's, craps his pants and then complains about it.

First remember to blame him, then remember to insult him and call him names, after all it is his fault. Tell him not to be a "crybaby", or "whine", and that he "deserves" it for being too old and sick to help himself. Also complain that you have to clean him up, and remind him that he isn't entitled to anything, including respect, regardless of his past good deeds to you and your family.

Oh yea, do it all in public.

It is the same.

Jim

Grady made a living out of relieving local "suckers" just like these out of their money for years. I can assure you that he is way winner when it comes to playing these exact type of matches. Last time I checked, Grady was not 80 and wasnt running around in diapers shitting himself. He was basically on a pool road trip to gamble with a champion, like himself. You think Grandpa would be on here whining about their lack of respect if he took them off for a nice little score. I am sure when Grady knew that he was playing the owner of the room that he had nothing but dollar signs in his eyes, and who could blame him. This is exactly what is wrong with our country. Kids cant even get paddled in school anymore because the teachers will get charged with assault. Our local Pee Wee league teams do not keep score because they are afraid kids feelings will get hurt and the parents ***** and whine when little Billy doesnt get to play in Jr High because he sucks, instead of making Billy practice and get better. Same story here I guess. Pool legend gets beat at his own hustle and you people compare it to your 80 year old dying grandpa shitting his pants. Unreal! For the record, if Michael Jordan ever shits his pants, I will wipe his ass.

 

[tucson9ball]

Been there, done that Dave. And I can't blame anyone but myself. I know Jimmy Joe and he is a well known gambler in Phoenix. He is also a good guy and from what I saw of him, a pleasure to gamble with. I've never heard anyone say anything bad about him. He and his brother treated me great when I was at Kolby's. And they both helped out in a bad situation when the tournament looked like it was going south. I remember those things so I'm speaking up now on their behalf.

There was a time years ago where Grady would rob a player Jimmy Joe's speed. Sadly that day is not today, and we can't live on past glories. It must be a rude awakening to Grady to find out that he is no longer the dominant player he once was. He could have given weight to John Henderson years ago as well.

I just got "robbed" in the 7 Card Stud tourney last night, and it cost me $1,500! I don't know if I still have what it takes to win at poker. So it's up to me to decide if I should go on or just hang it up. Like Grady, I made some big scores years ago and won a bunch of money in my prime. But it seems like my time as a poker player has come and gone. No fun when I realize that, but reality is a b-tch!

Nice post Jay. After the match, John does say that Grady gave him 8 to 6 way back in the 70's and John lost.
John Henderson said that he himself was never at Grady's level when Grady was in his prime. John said the years have been kind to him, referring to himself.

 

[Junkyarddog]

I hope some of you remember what you wrote in this thread when your 80 year old grandfather, with Alzheimer's, craps his pants and then complains about it.

First remember to blame him, then remember to insult him and call him names, after all it is his fault. Tell him not to be a "crybaby", or "whine", and that he "deserves" it for being too old and sick to help himself. Also complain that you have to clean him up, and remind him that he isn't entitled to anything, including respect, regardless of his past good deeds to you and your family.

Oh yea, do it all in public.

It is the same.

Jim

The only problem with this analogy is that your speaking of something where the victim has no control or memory of what caused it. Grady has been around the block and all of this was a choice and fully in his control. Now if Grady didn't remember what happened and said where did my $1,000 go 15 minutes after he lost it then we can make this comparison. But he is obviously lucid enough to tell us about his own mistake and put a spin on it to make it look like someone unfairly took advantage of him.

 

[mullyman]

I hope some of you remember what you wrote in this thread when your 80 year old grandfather, with Alzheimer's, craps his pants and then complains about it.

First remember to blame him, then remember to insult him and call him names, after all it is his fault. Tell him not to be a "crybaby", or "whine", and that he "deserves" it for being too old and sick to help himself. Also complain that you have to clean him up, and remind him that he isn't entitled to anything, including respect, regardless of his past good deeds to you and your family.

Oh yea, do it all in public.

It is the same.

Jim

A little thick on the drama? Jesus, you make it sound like Grady has lost his mind and is a functional invalid. Like he was taken in in a wheelchair and then robbed. The man is a stone cold gambler. Although, crying like that over a thousand dollars.......
MULLY

 

[SpinDoctor]

I hope some of you remember what you wrote in this thread when your 80 year old grandfather, with Alzheimer's, craps his pants and then complains about it.

First remember to blame him, then remember to insult him and call him names, after all it is his fault. Tell him not to be a "crybaby", or "whine", and that he "deserves" it for being too old and sick to help himself. Also complain that you have to clean him up, and remind him that he isn't entitled to anything, including respect, regardless of his past good deeds to you and your family.

Oh yea, do it all in public.

It is the same.

Jim

Please compare apples to apples, your analogy is not even close to the situation.

 

[LAMas]

I hope that Grady scrapes up $20K, returns with his "A" game and writes a book that turns into a movie.

 

[DRW]

grady

So, Hu, do you often walk into pool rooms that have a HUGE depth of champion players and offer weight to people you don't know for decent money?

Here's a different perspective:

Grady is LEGEND 1P player. Nobody views Grady as a schlep player. Who on earth is gonna stop Grady in his tracks and slow him up after being offered weight and say "Up your ass with the spot, Grady," thinking they were ROBBING him even. That's not what pool players do - that's not what Grady does/did.

Grady told a story one time of acting like a "golly-gee old man" to a player in a pool hall nowhere near his speed, slow sucking that guy out of money --- NEVER letting on he was a world-class player (he told this story at pool exhibition). So, it was OK for Grady to flat out STEAL from someone and talk about it while traveling to different rooms --- but when he escorted himself into a terrible game - it's not OK.

I've made terrible games. I've been on the other side of that as well, trying to stay calm and keep it close to see how much $$$$ I could suck out of someone. That's pool. That's the pool culture. Kill or be killed, or stay on the practice table.

Now, if someone would have stopped the room owner.... would there have been a post calling that guy a "knocker?" So, if a good-hearted guy steps up and says this is a heist---- that guy would be OSTRACIZED from that room or any other room as a knocker. If Grady was WAY over the owners head and someone prevented the owner from playing, I have a hunch that Grady would have made a post saying how pool isn't what it used to be and how much he hates KNOCKERS when he's trying to make a living.

I remember gambling in a casino one time (when I was 18, I snuck in) and I lost over a G in 2 minutes and when the smoke cleared, I felt SICK. I HATED the casino, I treated the cocktail waitress horribly, I didn't wanna pay for my parking (because F-them, right?) and vowed to never give those SCUMBAGS my money ever again (which, of course I did). However, as I matured I realized it was my hand that pulled the money out of my pocket - my choice. I lost my money, the casino didn't steal my money. I made a bad decision. But, I'm glad I did because I learned a lesson - and it wasn't THAT expensive of a lesson. That situation helped me mature as an adult.

I'd lay 4-1 on the money Grady knows this too and wishes he could take his post back and ask for a mulligan. I mean it when I say I love the guy - I don't know where to start when describing my respect for Grady. Grady, like me and the rest of us, has made bad posts and this is one of them. Big deal. I've made a few myself that I wish could be taken back too. We all have. Regardless of what Grady does from here....here you go Grady - --- I love ya bud:

Exactly!!!

 

[poolhustler]

That comes across rude to me..... Just saying.

Just getting back to read this thread. It was NOT my intention to be rude.

It was my intention to point out that Grady is being a whiny ***** about the whole situation.

Sorry, but gambling is gambling. Win some lose some. Grady knows that given that he has won more than his fair share over the years.

Russ...

 

[poolhustler]

Nice post Lou, we call it compassion.

I love you Frank, but I'll save my "compassion" for 3rd World homeless children, not seasoned gamblers who should know better.

 

[DRW]

analogies

Grady made a living out of relieving local "suckers" just like these out of their money for years. I can assure you that he is way winner when it comes to playing these exact type of matches. Last time I checked, Grady was not 80 and wasnt running around in diapers shitting himself. He was basically on a pool road trip to gamble with a champion, like himself. You think Grandpa would be on here whining about their lack of respect if he took them off for a nice little score. I am sure when Grady knew that he was playing the owner of the room that he had nothing but dollar signs in his eyes, and who could blame him. This is exactly what is wrong with our country. Kids cant even get paddled in school anymore because the teachers will get charged with assault. Our local Pee Wee league teams do not keep score because they are afraid kids feelings will get hurt and the parents ***** and whine when little Billy doesnt get to play in Jr High because he sucks, instead of making Billy practice and get better. Same story here I guess. Pool legend gets beat at his own hustle and you people compare it to your 80 year old dying grandpa shitting his pants. Unreal! For the record, if Michael Jordan ever shits his pants, I will wipe his ass.

Chips, ya got me again. Can't agree more.:thumbup:

 

[Fast Lenny]

I was going to just post what happened and leave it at that but the spin that is going on here is out of line. Grady did not get trapped by anyone, he was not asked to gamble by Jimmy. Jimmy is a very good one pocket player but he does not play very much and is not the healthiest of people. He is working on that and it seems he wants to play more. He is not the type to bark at people and chase action. If Jimmy is playing at the top of his game and in stroke he is certainly top 5, in a race to 3 there are many people in the state who can win especially with how he is playing now.

Jimmy had no idea on how Grady played, he just knows Grady played world class at one time and Jimmy never has. He would have played Grady even but Grady offered up 9-8, we both agreed after speaking about it that he should have played even to start. He adjusted after the first set to even and after that set offered weight. Grady was not trapped or hustled, he made a bad judgment by choosing to gamble after being straight off the plane and not hitting any balls on the table. Grady even remarked how he felt Jimmy was a weak player and how he did not play well and in front of everyone offered to play Jimmy for $20,000 on a neutral table so read into that.

I try to treat most people I meet with respect as I did with Grady but I am not a baby sitter and if the man wants to gamble should I say, "Grady, your a legend, a champion but this guy plays tough and I am not sure you can win.", that is good to put into a players head before they are ready to gamble. I have met plenty of gamblers who are action guys who want to bet something and make a game, if its out of line they adjust so I assumed this is how it was all happening. I am sure John would have played Jimmy some and in a race to 3 John can get there.

As I said and it might sound odd to some but I am not going to get in the middle of action, I have learned from being around Scott and many others you let people make their own games. To say that people in Kolbys are ruthless is not true although many are seasoned gamblers and will take someone off just as Grady would have taken off Jimmys money. Grady could give 90% of the room owners out there 9-8 and rob them but just not this one.

I did not know Gradys shape, to see him in action with Jimmy and moving all over the place was strange, I watched him on Accustats and never noticed that stuff and thought perhaps his game would atleast be somewhat close to what I saw on video. As for age, I know someone in the deep south who is Gradys age who Jimmy would not like to play, this guy never played Gradys speed in their primes either.

I do feel sorry for Grady but Jimmy said he went to get him for the tournament and Grady wrote a letter, was rambling on and Jimmy offered his money back and Grady kept going on so Jimmy just left. I think it was bad judgment for Jimmy and Grady to play, me and Jimmy spoke on that and he regrets playing him. Grady shook his hand before they started to play and said "Win or lose, lets both be gentleman and......". To me that speech sounded like, hey I am going to probably beat you and take your money but do not be mad at me.

I did give Grady some info on some of the players in the area and how they play while driving him to his hotel. He said he wanted to meet Preacher Ronn because he had heard he is good action, Ronn might beat Grady if Grady plays the way he did in his match with John and Ronn is not super strong player either. I told him Jimmy the owner is a good one pocket player, Scott was in Vegas, Gus is probably top 3 in the state along with how others play. It does not matter how someone else plays though, it mattered how Grady plays which I was unsure of never meeting him or seeing him play. Grady was going to play Gus getting 9-8, he had his cue together as soon as Gus asked him but decided to play a "softer" game as he remarked to me that he did not want to play a straight shooting young guy who runs a million balls.

IMO on this if it means a damn thing is that Grady made a bad move as did Jimmy, if Grady would have won as he has done to room owners many times in the past we would have never heard any of this. Jimmy was not hustling, why would he beat Grady 3-1 and then 3-0 if he was?, he could have won both sets hill-hill if that was the case because one pocket is the game for that. He just beat Grady flat and played hard out of respect to Grady. He did not know that Grady would be enraged and thought Grady was a gambler looking for some action and gave him some. Grady acting out the way he did in front of the whole room was wrong, in my next post I will quote San Jose Dicks take on this from onepocket.org.

I do feel bad for Grady, its not about him playing Jimmy though but more about his physical and mental condition, it is very sad really. I do wish him well and hope he gets better.

 

[Fast Lenny]

It seems pretty obvious we are dealing with a lot of different mindsets here. The funsy guy's and the gambling crowd, as usual have completely differing viewpoints.

I somewhat tried to defend Grady's obvious displeasure with the events as I heard, how they went down. (I witnessed the aftermath live, in living color)
...After reading his "creep" rant, I now think he is dead wrong.

He is well over 21, and to look for sympathy, and to even entertain thoughts that he deserved some sort of "refund", flies in the face of the guy I thought I knew.

I do not wish to further irritate him, but I must point out the fact, that I have known the "room owner" in question for many years. He would have "practiced" with Grady, for $10 a game, It was Grady who let it be known he would NOT play cheap.

I don't remember, in all my years of playing, where "decorum and proper etiquette" were ever even expected in a pool room. Call me a cynic, but pool rooms are the last place you want to let your guard down, if you're there to gamble. They are a microcosm of the real world...(survival of the fittest)
Past glories or accomplishments, do not get you a free pass. (nor should they)

Also, a very large percentage of "good action" has always been provided by "room owner's" Just like Grady, Bill Staton, Ricky Byrd, Earl Heisler, and countless others.

When Grady had his joint in Colo., He took on all comer's, and I doubt if he ever once asked if they were "well rested", or not at the top of their game.

We all deal with diminishing skills differently. The past few years, I have fired up, and gone off, at games I thought I should win at. So has John Henderson, and so has Grady.
I think we all like to bet all we can, but speaking for myself, I can't find it in me, to blame my opponent for winning my cash. Fortunately, I have learned to keep it to affordable amounts, although it doesn't sting any less.

I would like to point out to Grady, that what occurred here, could have happened in Sacramento, or Houston, or LA...or anywhere you guy's had your match.
There are tons of young un's out there now, who can (and will) prey on us old duffer's who think we can still play...but ONLY if we allow it !

PS..apologies to my good friend Terry A, as we seem to be on different sides of the fence on this issue.

Here is a quote from someone I respect very much.

 

[Madatmoney]

Pride Stings............

Grady fell victum to exactly what he feels that he is entitled too.....thats reverence and respect.

If i'm Jimmy and a former champion just hops off a plane and shows up at my shop and starts barking about playing and not playing cheap. I would be very leary about getting in the game. It's Grady freaking Mathews! But Jimmy having as much gamble as he does played the game even though he wasnt sure how he stood to come out of it......Because think about it........its Grady Mathews! Jimmy has to be thinking that he might be on the wrong end of that game.....And for anyone who still believes that Grady was pressued into playing I would have to rethink that. It can be asumed that Grady has a penchant for getting himself into bad games nowadays as proven by the Henderson match. Which basically turned into a 500 dollar an hour practice match for John.

My problem is with Grady besmirching the reputation of the room owner and Lenny by coming here and namecalling and questioning their honor as men. Lenny has still taken the high road by posting his and the owners view on the situation and not commenting ANY further. How strong is that? That should go a long way in determining what really happened that day.

At the end of the day the story boils down to a one time lights out player really refusing to admit that his game has slipped and living his past exploits in his own head might not be finacially feasable in 2010................

 

[Fast Lenny]

The worst thing about this forum is the regular justification for brutal actions due to some code of the jungle or pool culture.

No where in the civilized world would you invite an elderly gentlemen of some historic note into your house for an event that you promoted as a big time deal and allow him to be humiliated and busted in like the first couple hours he's there. (and by the owner of the house no less!)

I don't care if he's cranky and has done some questionable things in his past. He's a 67-year-old man in mediocre health. I hope your grandfather doesn't accidently walk into Kolby's some day and say the wrong thing and people happily take his money.

I know Lenny to be a fine young man with nothing but the best intentions. But he to gets caught up in this pool culture too where no matter what you do don't knock somebody's action or intervene when a brutal act is about to happen. That's just how it is. He asked for it.

To say well we didn't know how Grady plays, etc., is not valid.

There aren't five people in the State of Arizona that can play Jimmy even. Everyone at Kolby's has seen John Henderson play and knows he can't stand up to Jimmy or anywhere close now. I'm sure he could when he was young. Jimmy is an experienced, big-time gambler. Grady had no chance.

There were people in Kolbys that had the the power/ability to say to Jimmy and or Grady hey let's wait on this. You're/he's our guest. You got a big event tomorrow. You just got off the plane. Let's just hit some balls around. Jimmy you're probably way better than Grady so let's just cool it for now. In a civiliezed world that's what would have happened. Anybody running a big time event would have known to protect their guest of honor and dissuaded him from participating in a blow out.

But that's the pool culture I guess.

So it's horrible what Grady said after the fact? I guess when you get older you'll undertstand that when elderly people get humiliated in public they lash out. Actually almost everyone does whether it's justifiable or not.

If Grady comes off the road looking for action that's one thing. But if he's there as your guest you owe him some respect and responsibility.

So did Grady deserve what he got because he's some sort of bad guy? I say no. And shame on those who do.

I will say this Mike that Grady is not like any of our grandfathers, he is a champion pool player, a hustler, a legend. What your saying is spinning the situation, he is not just some old guy, we are talking about a 300+ ball runner and one of the top one pocket players in the world at one time. The only thing I can think is that Grady does not know or realize he cannot play to that level anymore.

Grady was looking for action otherwise he would have said I am tired and just want to practice and never brought up not playing cheap and that he has to bet something. I did have the power if you want to call it to tell Grady that he should not play and for Jimmy to not play, they probably would not have listened and matched up anyway. I did not want to offend Grady and make decisions for him, he is a grown man.

Knowing now he is very physically and mentally unwell after this all I would have not let him play Jimmy but then again he should not have been playing for $3000 either if we look at it like that. He was there to play for $3000, he was there to gamble, not for an exhibition.

Was losing in a gambling match the humiliating/embarrassing part of it all or was it his condition? I got remarks from many people that they never have seen Grady like that and asking what was wrong with him. I do not know his health problems but he is not well so I feel sad for him because of that, he should not be gambling period ever again is my conclusion but I have a feeling it wont be his last rodeo, its in his blood.

As I said Grady made the game and the stakes thinking he was in a soft game and was going to take the room owner for a couple dollars and even gave his little talk before the match about being gentleman win or lose and this and that. No big deal if the hunter goes into the woods and shoots a bear but if the bear kills the hunter its headline news.