ABP boycotts Berhman's event
- Thread starter CallShotCowboy
- Start date
This is really the main question that the ABP needs to answer. It has been proven by Barry that he cannot have as much money as he's promised by the time the Open starts.
It seems that the choice is accept a smaller payout or don't have the tournament. So the question to the ABP stands.
Will you be satisfied if Barry, to meet your demand of on site payment in full, has to lower the prize fund to a level he can guarantee???
This is the million dollar (or more likely $200,000) question.
Were ALL the players on the original list of 43 players boycotting the Open aware thier names would be used in the press release? That was the question. John Terrell
If a pool player is late on credit card payments, he is forced to pay penalties in interest. If Barry is late paying the players he doesn't suffer any penalty (until the pros decide to band together to create an organization that can effectively gather leverage by threatening to boycott)
If a pool player doesn't pay his credit cards, the card company can take back what was lost through repossession. If Barry doesn't pay the players, they really can't do anything to recoup their losses that doesn't involve high cost to themselves (i.e. hiring lawyers and suing).
Isn't this from an organization that once stated that if Earl Strickland made the Mosconi Cup team, that they would also boycott the MC?
Is that correct or did I happen to dream that?
I believe the PBA is lacking in the leadership department to take in a new direction. The end result being that strong arming promoters is going to destroy what little is left of professional pool in North America.
Seriously, take your blinders off and take a good look around you and see if the direction you are taking the PBA is really where you need to go.
You very well might end up being the Kings of Nothing Land.
Is that correct or did I happen to dream that?
I believe the PBA is lacking in the leadership department to take in a new direction. The end result being that strong arming promoters is going to destroy what little is left of professional pool in North America.
Seriously, take your blinders off and take a good look around you and see if the direction you are taking the PBA is really where you need to go.
You very well might end up being the Kings of Nothing Land.
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I can actually type up to 300 WPM on another machine, but on the generic QWERTY keyboard, I'm well over 150. I haven't tested myself lately. I was third in the world a few years ago. I can't beat the Russians. They use a different keyboard allowing them to fly like an eagle. I'm going to beat those Russians one day, though, before I die. :smile:
I woke up this morning to all these replies on the thread. I'm going to read them now. I am so glad that the ABPpros member replied to all the inquiries. That's cool!
edited to add full name.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I dont know how anyone would even consider having an event where having the prize money is being bet on the come. If the money is there, pay it. If it isn't, stop saying it is.
Lower the "advertised" added money, cut the budget, do whatever you have to do to keep your word.
All of the great things Barry has done and all the great feature (green jackets, roses, scorecard girls, etc etc) will fade to the memory of the prize fund not being there when the matches are over.
Ray Hansen
Well said, and I do agree. Barry does do some very nice things at the Open which make this tournament unique. Barry, like Shawn and Johnny, well, they're all like family in the American pool circles. :smile:
Sidetracked the seeding issue. Hmm...
I would like to know if the ABP is going to attempt to have Mike Zuglan change his long-established rules for his Joss Tour to allow seeding to accommodate the ABP. Mike Zuglan's events are never seeded. It's his tour, his rules. I think that's fair. The ABP, however, thinks they should be seeded in events they compete in.
Also, is the ABP going to impose any conditions on this tournament below?
Also, is the ABP going to impose any conditions on this tournament below?
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Just to repost the press release with emphasis on the highlighted portions:
Clearly, from the official statement issued by the ABP attorney, this is not a threat of a boycott - it is a boycott. So any further discussion by the ABP with BB about finding an acceptable solution for the pros to play this year is apparently not an option to the association. It is clear from the ABP statement that if Barry posts all the prize money into escrow tomorrow, this year's event will still go on without them. If the players would have considered playing if they were satisfied by Barry they easily could have said so in the statement, but they did not. They flat out said they are not playing this year.
It would seem that if Barry did concede and post (even if it was a lower fund) then the ABP would consider this a victory, and probably should. But since their statement made it clear they will not compete this year anyway, the possibility of that happening is nil. What incentive does Barry have if the only players refusing to play have already declared they won't play this year anyway? Whether intentional or not, they have definitely drawn a line in the sand or painted themselves into a corner, depending on how you want to look at it.
Through ABPpros the association insists it is being genuine and sincere. This would necessarily apply to the orignial lawyer-issued statement. Well, either they are or they're not. For sure the leadership would have a problem competing now because they have a long list of rank and file members who have loyally followed them in this position.
This will be interesting.
One remedy, for lack of a better terminology, is to consider having Barry state up front that the payouts will be sent after the tournament to the top 10 finishers. I know this sounds harsh to those of us who enjoy immediate gratification of payment at other American tournaments, but from what I have been reading, MANY, MANY, MANY tournaments in Asian-Pacific Islander countries pay after the tournament concludes.
If the players know this going into the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, they can make a decision whether they want to play or not with this caveat being known ahead of time. If they prefer to be paid in cash right after the tournament, then they can choose not to play in the the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championpship.
Barry Behrman runs the tournament and payouts "on the come," based on gate fees, vendor booth fees, entry fees, et cetera. I know I don't have to say this, as most folks know, but the expenses to run a tournament this large, aside from paying the purse, are huge.
These are my morning thoughts. It's a possible solution to this for future events.
As far as past players owed, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know *who* they are. The *who* part, though, should not matter. It's the *when* will they be paid part that's important. This is where legal counsel could play an important role in drawing up an agreement between Barry and those players owed, allowing the players to have a date certain as to when they will be paid. If the *legal* agreement is breached, well, then the players have a recourse to follow.
Barry Behrman is a good man. I hate seeing this happen. I want it to be fixed. :smile:
After reading all of these posts one troubling thought comes to mind. There just is not much money in pro pool. So should anyone really expect to make a living by just playing pool? Add up the prize monies available and there is not enough there for twenty-five or thirty guys to make a good living. Maybe these 'pros' should get jobs to pay the bills and play pool on the side the way the rest of us do? I am just not at all certain that the sport owes anyone a living. The idea that they are relying on small prize monies that may or may not come seems a bit irresponsible, no? Can you keep the kids in clothes doing this?
Don't misunderstand me. I really love pool. But that does not mean that anyone can rely on a game that has virtually zero fan interest to make a living. It just does not seem likely that things are going to get better for these guys in the future. I would bet that things can get a lot worse and probably will. Especially if the promoters they rely on get frustrated and go do something else. I just do not see this road they are taking leading to Nirvana.
Don't misunderstand me. I really love pool. But that does not mean that anyone can rely on a game that has virtually zero fan interest to make a living. It just does not seem likely that things are going to get better for these guys in the future. I would bet that things can get a lot worse and probably will. Especially if the promoters they rely on get frustrated and go do something else. I just do not see this road they are taking leading to Nirvana.
The questions I asked were also strictly financial. To reiterate, who has not been paid from the 2010 U.S. Open? Who was paid late and how late was it? It's been two days since I asked these questions on here SHAWN and no one has seen fit to respond to me, either publicly or via PM or e-mail. This non answer is an answer to me.
At this time my opinion is that you guys have picked the wrong target. Barry added over $60,000 to last year's Open (50K + 10K in entry fee money) and everyone DID get paid in a timely fashion, (92 out of 96 at the venue). I think that you and others may have allowed your emotions to over rule your common sense. No question Barry can have a volitile personality at times, but he remains a steadfast supporter of professional pool in America!
Better advice (no one asked me but I will offer it anyway) for the ABP is to band together and seek sponsors for your "Tour", either in existing events or those that you create. You guys actually could do something good for yourselves if you had some much needed direction. Attacking the one guy who has given you all countless paydays is not a smart business decision any way you cut it. I can tell you from personal experience it is far better to be paid late than not at all. Professional pool is a small market in America and to go after the biggest promoter is an unwise decision imo. Better to use your time and energy to help create a larger market share for your sport. I do find it quite interesting that professional pool seems to be thriving in the overseas markets. Maybe that fact has been lost on you guys.
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The Chipsta
Registered
Couple of key points for the ABP to ponder
- most jobs pay people 1-2 weeks after the work week ends
- the fans pay for your tournaments! Whether it is by attending the event or buying merchandise from the sponsors, the fans make your dreams possible. Added money comes from the fans. You are trying to kill the biggest fan base you have at the best tournament you have.
- you just slapped the fans in the face. As a fan I will still watch the best players (even if they come off as jerks). As a fan I will always remember the people on the list. No support for you. I hope all of the industry stays away from the list as well.
- Barry should give you 2 weeks to make amends or he should ban all of you from this event.
- Why not try to agree on a partial payment to the top 4 finishers to cover expenses? If you walk out the door with cash to cover expenses you could stop *****in.
What is considered fast for 2 fingers?
:smile:
:smile:
I can actually type up to 300 WPM on another machine, but on the generic QWERTY keyboard, I'm well over 150. I haven't tested myself lately. I was third in the world a few years ago. I can't beat the Russians. They use a different keyboard allowing them to fly like an eagle. I'm going to beat those Russians one day, though, before I die. :smile:
I woke up this morning to all these replies on the thread. I'm going to read them now. I am so glad that the ABPpros member replied to all the inquiries. That's cool!
As usual, Jay is the voice of reason regarding pool in the US. :thumbup:
If I worked in an industry that was so small that there was only enough money for 20% of the qualified "workers" to make a living, I wouldn't personally alienate one of the countries largest "employers'.........