ABP boycotts Berhman's event

HELLO, As a past champion Rodney pays no entry fee into the U.S. Open! Maybe Barry should rethink that policy as well. It's costing him many thousands every year and no one seems to appreciate that fact.

That is so true. Let's not forget the green jackets, long-stem roses for every single lady who steps foot in the tournament room, and free passes for the player's wives to get in for free. Barry also offers *free* entry fee to some aged and legendary players who cannot afford the $500 entry fee.

Which is a tax writeoff. It ain't my business how Barry and his daughter are handling the financial affairs of the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship, but one way they would receive relief is to send out 1099s to the players who cashed in more than $600. Maybe they do that today. The only 1099s I've ever seen from pool, though, came from Allen Hopkins, IPT, and Joss Tour.
 
Sorry. I refuese to support the ABP. Its a principals thing. So long as they dont support the Amatures and Shortstops, I shall not support them.

Their actions so far have only served for the Betterment of "Top Pros" and not Cuesports as a whole.

I don't believe that have even served themselves very well.

It appears, to me at least, that they stumbled out of the gate pretty badly. And, if I had to venture a guess, I'd say that they probably will not finish well.

Too bad, a players organization is a necessity for the advancement of the sport, but they appear to be in way over their head.

J
 
HELLO, As a past champion Rodney pays no entry fee into the U.S. Open! Maybe Barry should rethink that policy as well. It's costing him many thousands every year and no one seems to appreciate that fact.

Jay

Barry loves to visit with past champions this is common knowledge.what is your opinion on the past champion rule.do you think he should keep it like masters golf with life time free. or should he do it like US open golf with 5 year exemption.

bill
 
P.S. Tiger hasn't been playing and the televison ratings have NOT suffered! He missed the U.S. Open and will miss the British Open next week. What has happened in golf this year is the new young stars are taking over, and the fans love it! Ever heard of Rory McElroy? Or Rickie Fowler or Jason Day or Dustin Johnson? These are the new stars in professional golf.

Where have you found these statistics Jay? I'd be curious to see as I've heard he is STILL a major impact on ratings.
 
P.S. Tiger hasn't been playing and the televison ratings have NOT suffered! He missed the U.S. Open and will miss the British Open next week. What has happened in golf this year is the new young stars are taking over, and the fans love it! Ever heard of Rory McElroy? Or Rickie Fowler or Jason Day or Dustin Johnson? These are the new stars in professional golf.

Jay, ABPpros was referring to having ALL the top stars not play, not just one. So let's talk about that.

Oh wait, all the top golfers in the world do "boycott" numerous PGA tour sanctioned events every year. This year they didn't play in the Mayakoba Classic because they were all playing in the WGC match play; they "boycotted" the Puerto Rico Open to play in the WGC-Cadillac; they won't play in the Viking Classic but rather in the British Open; they will not play in the Reno-Tahoe Open but instead will go to the WGC-Bridgestone.

How viable are those "boycotted" events? Hmmm, let's see:

Mayakoba Classic: ($3.7 million purse / $666K to the winner, full field)

Puerto Rico Open: ($3.5 million / $630K to the winner, full field)

Viking Classic: ($3.6 million purse / $648K to last year's winner, full field)

Reno-Tahoe Open ($3.0MM purse / $540K to last year's champion, full field)

-----------

And if the ABP wishes to aspire to the status of the PGA Tour (not the money, because that likely will never happen) then they need to keep in mind one thing - the leading money winner on the PGA tour EVERY YEAR - is charity. By a lot.
 
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In advance of this post, I must note that I will only consider things as they pertain to American-based professionals and to the American pool scene in general.

The facts are the facts, and right now, the fact is that the US Open is losing money. Some suggest, although not me, that Barry Behrman would be justified in raising entry fees, increasing admission costs, reducing prize money, and discontinuing the policy of paying the entry fee of former champions. However, Behrman, who may have his limitations as an event organizer and proprietor, isn't doing that. He is, instead, trying to stay the course and make the US Open remain lucrative for the players and cost effective for the fans to the greatest extent possible. He has struggled to make payments in the past, and can reasonably be expected to struggle again. The players are right in feeling entitled to prompt payment. After all, their expenses of participation are, typically, borne up front. I can appreciate why the ABP would feel that with the boycott comes a chance for progress, but the boycott also comes with some dangers.

Why the Boycott May Result in Progress

1) Behrman may be induced to escrow prize fund money in the future
This can only happen if sponsorship dollars make it possible, but perhaps the professionals can work wth him to make it happen. Under this scenario, the US Open would continue to exist and the players would not have to worry about being paid prize moneys due.

2) Would-be Producers Will Understand that Late Payers are not Welcome
Scaring away those who are not confident that they can make prompt payments of prize money makes sense, so those who produce tournaments in the future will be more reliable than those of the past.

3) An Era of Greater Understanding Between American Professionals and Tournament Producers Might Result
The boycott, if it results in better results in payment of prize monies, may usher in an era of greater understanding and better feelings between pool entrepreneus and pool professionals, which would be very desirable, and might lead to an increase in the number of tournaments, perhaps even a legitimate professional men's tour in America that is sufficiently lucrative to attract the participation of overseas-based stars.

4) The US Open Could be Produced by a More Reliable Entrepreneur
If the US Open as it exists today proves beyond repair, perhaps another pool entrepreneur will opt to take it over and run it in a way that is more in line with the requirements of the professional playrs. In this case, the prestige of the tournament will be retained, and participation will become more attractive.

The Dangers, as I See Them

1) There is a Great Scarcity of Pool Entrepreneurs in America
There are just a few promoters in America that roll the dice on pro pool these days. With no disrespect for all the others that finance pool events in America, three of them are more visible than the others, because they run the three large-field events having elite international fields and significant fan attendance, and they would be Greg Sullivan (DCC), Mark Griffin (BCAPL) and Barry Behrman (US Open). Scaring away one of them may be a bad idea, and would-be pool entrepreneurs might be turned off by the fact that the American professional pool playing community deserted a long-term business partner.

2) A Migration of the Pool Scene Away from America is in Progress
Major new events are emerging overseas, chiefly in Asia and the Middle East, but not many mjor events are emerging in America. Bit by bit, the elite pro pool scene is leaving America. With a few exceptions, most notably Van Boening, American professionals are opting not to play in even the most elite international events because they cannot justify the steep costs of participation. Maintaining the few jewels on the American pool calendar is, in my view, of fundamental importance to sustaining the vitality of pro pool in America, as well as the attention of pool's American fan base. Does anyone think that the average American pool fan even knew about the event a couple of weeks ago in Qatar? Isn't it obvious that an American company sponsoring a player got almost no exposure among American fans in that event, even if their player competed? If the result of the ABP boycott is the end of the US Open, certainly a possibility, it is a significant blow to the American pool scene.

3) American Proessionals May Lose Touch with the American Amateur Pool Playing Community
The DCC in January, the BCAPL event in May, and the US Open in the early autumn are, arguably, the only time is on the American pool calendar that there is substantial interaction betwen the pro and amateur ranks. These are the core pro events in American pool, the only ones attended by at least one thousand amateurs, and if we lose any of these events without replacing them, we lessen the landscape of American pool and risk a greater disconnect between the pro and amateur ranks.

4) There May be Reduced Participation of Elite Overseas-based Foreign Professionals in United States Based Events
An issue closely tied to the migration of the pool scene away from the United States is the growing absence of the elite foreign superstars of the game in American based events. This is a problem that will get worse if the US Open is lost. The danger is that Americans would have fewer opportunities to compete against the international stars of the game, and not only will it make them less competitive, but it could make their events seem second-rate.

In Conclusion

I see no reason to predict what the result of the boycott will be. I fully support the professional players in their pursuit of a better career in pool, and wish them every possible success as they map out a course for a better future. Nontheless, as I've indicated, some of the possible consequences of the boycott are a cause of concern for me.
 
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money,money,money. all i hear is money,i remember when pool players were broke and lived out the back of a car and we all did justfine,now its all about money, and one other thing... a seeded tourney is just plain BS youare suppose to be the best in the world and still looking to get every advantage you can. damn pool has changed:confused:
 
In advance of this post, I must note that I will only consider things as they pertain to American-based professionals and to the American pool scene in general.

The facts are the facts, and right now, the fact is that the US Open is losing money. Some suggest, although not me, that Barry Behrman would be justified in raising entry fees, increasing admission costs, reducing prize money, and discontinuing the policy of paying the entry fee of former champions. However, Behrman, who may have his limitations as an event organizer and proprietor, isn't doing that. He is, instead, trying to stay the course and make the US Open remain lucrative for the players and cost effective for the fans to the greatest extent possible. He has struggled to make payments in the past, and can reasonably be expected to struggle again. The players are right in feeling entitled to prompt payment. After all, their expenses of participation are, typically, borne up front. I can appreciate why the ABP would feel that with the boycott comes a chance for progress, but the boycott also comes with some dangers.

Why the Boycott May Result in Progress

1) Behrman may be induced to escrow prize fund money in the future
This can only happen if sponsorship dollars make it possible, but perhaps the professionals can work wth him to make it happen. Under this scenario, the US Open would continue to exist and the players would not have to worry about being paid prize moneys due.

2) Would-be Producers Will Understand that Late Payers are not Welcome
Scaring away those who are not confident that they can make prompt payments of prize money makes sense, so those who produce tournaments in the future will be more reliable than those of the past.

3) An Era of Greater Understanding Between American Professionals and Tournament Producers Might Result
The boycott, if it results in better results in payment of prize monies, may usher in an era of greater understanding and better feelings between pool entrepreneus and pool professionals, which would be very desirable, and might lead to an increase in the number of tournaments, perhaps even a legitimate professional men's tour in America that is sufficiently lucrative to attract the participation of overseas-based stars.

4) The US Open Could be Produced by a More Reliable Entrepreneur
If the US Open as it exists today proves beyond repair, perhaps another pool entrepreneur will opt to take it over and run it in a way that is more in line with the requirements of the professional playrs. In this case, the prestige of the tournament will be retained, and participation will become more attractive.

The Dangers, as I See Them

1) There is a Great Scarcity of Pool Entrepreneurs in America
There are just a few promoters in America that roll the dice on pro pool these days. With no disrespect for all the others that finance pool events in America, three of them are more visible than the others, because they run the three large-field events having elite international fields and significant fan attendance, and they would be Greg Sullivan (DCC), Mark Griffin (BCAPL) and Barry Behrman (US Open). Scaring away one of them may be a bad idea, and would-be pool entrepreneurs might be turned off by the fact that the American professional pool playing community deserted a long-term business partner.

2) A Migration of the Pool Scene Away from America is in Progress
Major new events are emerging overseas, chiefly in Asia and the Middle East, but not many mjor events are emerging in America. Bit by bit, the elite pro pool scene is leaving America. With a few exceptions, most notably Van Boening, American professionals are opting not to play in even the most elite international events because they cannot justify the steep costs of participation. Maintaining the few jewels on the American pool calendar is, in my view, of fundamental importance to sustaining the vitality of pro pool in America, as well as the attention of pool's American fan base. Does anyone think that the average American pool fan even knew about the event a couple of weeks ago in Qatar? Isn't it obvious that an American company sponsoring a player got almost no exposure among American fans in that event, even if their player competed? If the result of the ABP boycott is the end of the US Open, certainly a possibility, it is a significant blow to the American pool scene.

3) American Proessionals May Lose Touch with the American Amateur Pool Playing Community
The DCC in January, the BCAPL event in May, and the US Open in the early autumn are, arguably, the only time is on the American pool calendar that there is substantial interaction betwen the pro and amateur ranks. These are the core pro events in American pool, the only ones attended by at least one thousand amateurs, and if we lose any of these events without replacing them, we lessen the landscape of American pool and risk a greater disconnect between the pro and amateur ranks.

4) There May be Reduced Participation of Elite Overseas-based Foreign Professionals in United States Based Events
An issue closely tied to the migration of the pool scene away from the United States is the growing absence of the elite foreign superstars of the game in American based events. This is a problem that will get worse if the US Open is lost. The danger is that Americans would have fewer opportunities to compete against the international stars of the game, and not only will it make them less competitive, but it could make their events seem second-rate.

In Conclusion

I see no reason to predict what the result of the boycott will be. I fully support the professional players in their pursuit of a better career in pool, and wish them every possible success as they map out a course for a better future. Nontheless, as I've indicated, some of the possible consequences of the boycott are a cause of concern for me.

Man, that would have taken JAM 3 or 4 minutes to type. :thumbup:

A very well thought out and reasonable assessment, SJM.

One possible ommission under "Dangers" paragraph 3, might be the Superbilliards Expo in March.

Best,
Brian kc
 
Signing out of this debate. Good Luck to both sides.
I do want to say that my viewpoint came from my perspective of the struggling pro. As we all know, that is not the case with all pros. But it is good that they are trying to look out for each other.
 
Jamison...I had to laugh when I read this. I stopped in to Art of Billliards, in Gainsville FL Thursday night, just after Archer and Putnam left. I spoke with a few people about the 'event' and how it went. One of the guys I was talking to (who is a local player in that room) called Archer "the other guy". He didn't even know his name...:confused: I still say Jeanette Lee has the highest recognition among poolplayers. Whether it's "Janet" Lee, Jeanette Lee, The Black Widow, "that chinese chick" or whatever...they KNOW who she is! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

"You could take Johnny Archer and start him on fire, put him at a pool table shooting in Time Square, and the people still won't watch him play.".
 
Jamison...I had to laugh when I read this. I stopped in to Art of Billliards, in Gainsville FL Thursday night, just after Archer and Putnam left. I spoke with a few people about the 'event' and how it went. One of the guys I was talking to (who is a local player in that room) called Archer "the other guy". He didn't even know his name...:confused: I still say Jeanette Lee has the highest recognition among poolplayers. Whether it's "Janet" Lee, Jeanette Lee, The Black Widow, "that chinese chick" or whatever...they KNOW who she is! LOL

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Must have been an APA 2 you were talking to. If they dont know who JA is, then they have trouble figuring which end of the cue to use.
Another nice cheapsh1t
Only people heard of you are on AZ
 
Must have been an APA 2 you were talking to. If they dont know who JA is, then they have trouble figuring which end of the cue to use.
Another nice cheapsh1t
Only people heard of you are on AZ

This is actually pretty common. There are many B level players in my area who wouldn't know any of these guys. I asked a guy that plays in 3-5 tournaments a week, probably a low- mid B, if he's heard of Shane Van Boening. He had no clue who I was talking about. This has happened multiple times when I've asked many different people.

How can there be enough money to go around in pool when the people who are the potential market couldn't tell you anyone who is a pro? The key is getting all these people who play pool to learn about pool and associate the game with the faces. How can you make money when the audience you're shooting for doesn't even know professional pool exists?

I am literally one of two people in a town of 350,000 who has ever bought a TAR ppv. That actually seems like a lot when you look at some of the numbers. If that number stood, TAR would have 800 viewers in the US. Since they only get about half that, that means in the US there is probably one ppv purchaser for every 500-600,000 people. You tell me where the money is supposed to come from to grow this sport?
 
Excuse me? C'mon Shawn...if you can't even list people who are owed money, including how much and from when...you guys are just flappin' your gums. This is not some secret society, where you get penalized for giving out "secret" information. Post up...or piss off, imo! :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

At this time we are not at liberty to give that information out .
 
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