ABP Response to Barry's counter offer
- Thread starter justnum
- Start date
Good luck JJ, play well.
fcee06...I think Blue Hog ridr has it correct. You need to look at this from another perspective...that of an independent contractor, which is what professional poolplayers are (as am I, btw). An independent contractor is responsible for paying all up-front costs associated with whatever work they are contracting to provide...in this case, to show up to a tournament, and play in said event. IF they manage to finish high enough, they will be paid for 'performance on their contract'. If they fail to finish high enough, they will be S.O.L. and have no recourse to get reimbursed for their expenses (this is the "gamble" a tournament player takes, just to enter and play). In this specific case, Barry has been late in paying SOME of the highest finishers. The truth remains, though, that the majority of 'cashing' players are paid immediately after the event. Should Barry be able to pay ALL the players immediately? Yes...on that point we agree. That said, for an event that has run 35 years, and has attained 'legendary' status around the world, Barry does a pretty good job, and offers perks to many of the players. If I won $40k and knew I was going to get it, even if I had to wait 30/60/90 days, I would be happy (perhaps not as happy as if I was paid now...but still happy).
I work, as an independent contractor, doing my shows at colleges and military bases. I always ASK to be paid at the conclusion of the event. However, some schools payment procedures do not allow this, and I get paid usually within 30 days. The military is different. They NEVER pay upfront, and often take 60-90 days to pay, because of red tape paperwork and government process. I will tell you, quite frankly, I never mind "being owed" by these entities, because I KNOW I am going to get paid...eventually. Barry has never failed to pay...only to pay some players on time. That said, I will give him the benefit of the doubt once again, and see what happens this year. The pro players should do the same, imo.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I work, as an independent contractor, doing my shows at colleges and military bases. I always ASK to be paid at the conclusion of the event. However, some schools payment procedures do not allow this, and I get paid usually within 30 days. The military is different. They NEVER pay upfront, and often take 60-90 days to pay, because of red tape paperwork and government process. I will tell you, quite frankly, I never mind "being owed" by these entities, because I KNOW I am going to get paid...eventually. Barry has never failed to pay...only to pay some players on time. That said, I will give him the benefit of the doubt once again, and see what happens this year. The pro players should do the same, imo.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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Scott
Good post as ever and to the point. However I would say, how many chances do you give someone? That's a question only the Pro's can answer, I am not one of them so refuse to state here my view of that question. But I have also read Barry's latest statement and again I would say he needs advice from someone on what to put in any press release.
Abp
The biggest payday for pool in the states and all this posturing. Jay hit it right on with the history of pool players shooting the golden goose.
You read all these threads about why pool is in the state it is in, refer to Jays post #39.
I would suggest that Barry lose the past champion free entry, its a nice gesture but totally unnecessary. Another suggestion would be to make the entry $500 plus $50 with the fifty going to help with expenses. This is what all poker tournaments do and what the majority of regional pool tours do. With just those two things he covers about $20,000 in expenses if my math is right based on full field.
With that said i agree the players need to be paid in a timely manner. Barry has been just like some of my biggest customers, slow but they do pay. Following the ABP's method of negotiation i would be out of buisness in a month.
For those that like to compare pool and golf, there are similaritys. More than 95% of the golfers on tour cannot make a living playing tournaments.
The main income for all those 95% is as a club pro or as a teaching pro.
Those percentages are probably pretty close to pools.
Sorry if i rambled on here just some random thoughts.
The biggest payday for pool in the states and all this posturing. Jay hit it right on with the history of pool players shooting the golden goose.
You read all these threads about why pool is in the state it is in, refer to Jays post #39.
I would suggest that Barry lose the past champion free entry, its a nice gesture but totally unnecessary. Another suggestion would be to make the entry $500 plus $50 with the fifty going to help with expenses. This is what all poker tournaments do and what the majority of regional pool tours do. With just those two things he covers about $20,000 in expenses if my math is right based on full field.
With that said i agree the players need to be paid in a timely manner. Barry has been just like some of my biggest customers, slow but they do pay. Following the ABP's method of negotiation i would be out of buisness in a month.
For those that like to compare pool and golf, there are similaritys. More than 95% of the golfers on tour cannot make a living playing tournaments.
The main income for all those 95% is as a club pro or as a teaching pro.
Those percentages are probably pretty close to pools.
Sorry if i rambled on here just some random thoughts.
Jay all i know is this@ For me to escape that week dead f ckin even the following things have to happen@ 1. I cannot,repeat cannot go with Scott Frost to the strip club @2.avoid Chris Bartram game of any sort(I ALWAYS END UP ON THE WRONG SIDE OF HIS CRAP SHOOTS) no matter what way i bet! EAt six inch hoagies from wawa everyday and last but not least > MY HORSE GOTTA SNAP IT OFF AND HOPE FOR SOME REASON ALONG THE LINES of AN EXTRA HALEYS COMIT SIGHTING THAT BARRY BREAKS US OFF WITH THE CHECK!!!
i AGREE Scott ,but im not trying to shed that much light on where the player has to cash because that gray area is where you have little to no shot of leaving with the money in hand and that is 100 % THE TRUTH!!!
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Probably, but I'm not shocked you know.
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Those numbers are not even remotely close to the situation on the PGA Tour. Last year #125 on the money list earned $787K on the golf course.
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If I had to guess I'd go with DA because as I recall BB's statement that was the only player he mentioned by name.
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Very common in any kind of union.
Any time you get a smirched reputation, it costs more to earn it back. The thing about reputations though is that they don't necessarily have to be true to become valid.
Probably not the case. Much of the pomp and circumstance to these kinds of boycotts is subsidiary to the actual promoter in question.
Exactly. This is a business. With the recent lockouts in some of the other sports, fans have cried and moaned a lot too, but that's mostly out of their self serving interests. Negotiations tend to get messy.
Ain't that the truth. Most players are so stuck from expenses in previous events that even when you do win, place, or show, you still don't come out ahead, unless you have a sponsor that pays you cash money. How many American players have that?
This thing with Barry vs. the ABP is starting to wear thin. I like the fact that Barry is eliminating the "free" entry fees for past champions who have joined in with the ABP boycott.
Now I wish Barry would get rid of that precious seeding those ABP pros hold so dearly. Do it like the regional tours do it today. Make the ABP pros spot all other competitors in the event, 9 to 7 each match. Yeah, that's the ticket.
The ABP members seem to think they should receive special treatment. Phooey on them!
See you in October at the Chesapeake Conference Center. Go, Barry, go! :smile:
First, its been more than 30,60,90 or 120 days on Mika's money. People here seem to lose sight of that FACT!
Second, Mika received a. Post DATED check! If it faIled to clear then you could have a case against the us open and a lein against the entity that holds the US OPEN 9 BALL brand. In essence, best of luck having a event called US OPEN 9 BALL until the lein and ownership issue is settled. It may take a liittle legal work but not much.
Third, if the check was a personal check Mika hit the bank and the fed's could look into the validity of the check Mika received and more possible drama with that.
Fourth, what's to prevent players entry fees from this year being used to pay last events winners?????
Fifth, if number four is true how hard is it to catch up and what's the odds of additional drama????
Sixth, this cycle per the. Us open has been going since 2007 per run out radio and 4 plus years of possible issues resolved like number 4 could add up BIG.
The players are not stupid!
KD
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Second, Mika received a. Post DATED check! If it faIled to clear then you could have a case against the us open and a lein against the entity that holds the US OPEN 9 BALL brand. In essence, best of luck having a event called US OPEN 9 BALL until the lein and ownership issue is settled. It may take a liittle legal work but not much.
Third, if the check was a personal check Mika hit the bank and the fed's could look into the validity of the check Mika received and more possible drama with that.
Fourth, what's to prevent players entry fees from this year being used to pay last events winners?????
Fifth, if number four is true how hard is it to catch up and what's the odds of additional drama????
Sixth, this cycle per the. Us open has been going since 2007 per run out radio and 4 plus years of possible issues resolved like number 4 could add up BIG.
The players are not stupid!
KD
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
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Repost
"Industry wide standards" are the established rules, regulations, generally accepted operating procedures, practices and requirements of a given industry. They allow people operating within, or interacting with, a particilar industry know exactly what is to be expected from the various segments of that industry. For instance, everyone knows that they can expect to be paid their winnings, and must also pay their losings, immediately at a casino, or that they are not required to pay for a personal service before receiving it. Actions below those accepted standards are usually rejected as being unacceptable.
If pool, as a professional industry, was mature and established enough to already have all of these guidelines firmly anchored we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. So....
One of the primary roles and goals of any newly formed industry organization should be to work with the other industry leaders and organizations towards establishing industry standards that are reasonable, acceptable, beneficial, and achievable for everyone involved. Chest pounding and ultimatums usually beget more of the same.
Doing this successfully requires quite a bit; planning, hard work, time, patience, and an tremendous assortment of skills and knowledge. One of the "keys" to being successful is acknowledging what you are NOT good at, and being willing and able to recruit the best possible people to do it for you.
Good luck.
J
"Industry wide standards" are the established rules, regulations, generally accepted operating procedures, practices and requirements of a given industry. They allow people operating within, or interacting with, a particilar industry know exactly what is to be expected from the various segments of that industry. For instance, everyone knows that they can expect to be paid their winnings, and must also pay their losings, immediately at a casino, or that they are not required to pay for a personal service before receiving it. Actions below those accepted standards are usually rejected as being unacceptable.
If pool, as a professional industry, was mature and established enough to already have all of these guidelines firmly anchored we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. So....
One of the primary roles and goals of any newly formed industry organization should be to work with the other industry leaders and organizations towards establishing industry standards that are reasonable, acceptable, beneficial, and achievable for everyone involved. Chest pounding and ultimatums usually beget more of the same.
Doing this successfully requires quite a bit; planning, hard work, time, patience, and an tremendous assortment of skills and knowledge. One of the "keys" to being successful is acknowledging what you are NOT good at, and being willing and able to recruit the best possible people to do it for you.
Good luck.
J
I just remembered it may be the masters not the open that was not paid. Not sure if they set up another legal entity or was a subsidiary of the US OPEN either of these could effect things in my post.
Kd
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Kd
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
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Barry's response to the ABP response is posted on AZ.
Barry emphasized that prize payouts are based on 256 players.
Well if fewer than 256 show up, what is the pay prize reduced to? Is it a percentage, based on sets of 10, 246 players field prize money, 236 player field prize money...
Barry isn't clear about what happens when a reduced field plays the tournament.
It makes a difference for people that don't have a lot to commit to the US Open. Especially if the prize money is significantly reduced for the week long drudgery of tourney pool.
CONGRATS TO ALL POSTERS ON THIS THREAD:
It seems there are a lot of good ideas. But no one has thought about the US Open going on with a reduced sized field. Good thing Barry brought it up.
I hope Barry posts when he breaks the 128 player commitment mark. If he can't break that two months prior to the event, it might not be worth it at all. Because even with the 128 players paying entry fee they still have to complete the tourney responsibilities like playing matches, so it might be like 96.
Does Barry need entry fees for a lush prize payout, or player matches?
So if 256 players pay entry fees but only 128 play is the prize money being paid still for the 256 calculation? I see players that pay entry fees but don't play matches as forfeits or easy wins in the brackets.
Barry emphasized that prize payouts are based on 256 players.
Well if fewer than 256 show up, what is the pay prize reduced to? Is it a percentage, based on sets of 10, 246 players field prize money, 236 player field prize money...
Barry isn't clear about what happens when a reduced field plays the tournament.
It makes a difference for people that don't have a lot to commit to the US Open. Especially if the prize money is significantly reduced for the week long drudgery of tourney pool.
CONGRATS TO ALL POSTERS ON THIS THREAD:
It seems there are a lot of good ideas. But no one has thought about the US Open going on with a reduced sized field. Good thing Barry brought it up.
I hope Barry posts when he breaks the 128 player commitment mark. If he can't break that two months prior to the event, it might not be worth it at all. Because even with the 128 players paying entry fee they still have to complete the tourney responsibilities like playing matches, so it might be like 96.
Does Barry need entry fees for a lush prize payout, or player matches?
So if 256 players pay entry fees but only 128 play is the prize money being paid still for the 256 calculation? I see players that pay entry fees but don't play matches as forfeits or easy wins in the brackets.
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This last statement is about as absurd as it gets. Why would 256 players pay entry fees, and only half of them show up...or in your words "not play"? To answer your question above...yes, if 256 entries are paid, then the payment schedule will be based on that number of entries. Sheesh, it's not rocket science.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
You are so far up Johnny's butt that I have no humorous retort that could reach you.
Really.......... you need to go back and read my posts, I have refused to take sides in this from the very first post. I want it resolved so that everyone can play and both sides are happy with the outcome.
What I have always said is that people should only comment on what they know to be true, nothing else.
Yes I know Johnny, just as I know other pros, however that actually puts me in a difficult situation. Just as an aside and for your edification, I have never spoken to him about the ongoing situation and unless he brought it up I never would. I have never heard him bring it up with anyone else either, I believe that is the correct way to handle it. The ABP and Barry should deal with this behind closed doors as I have also mentioned, not in the press and statements from both sides should be conspicuous by their absence until this is resolved. It was people on this Forum that made the ABP Pro's come out and repsond to posts here by simply inflaming the situation. Everyone is absolutely allowed their own view point and the right to free speach, I just wish they would keep to the facts. I completely respect your choice of supporting Barry in this if you believe that and take no issue with it. What I do take issue with are some of the comments on the forum in the last couple of days that suggest some sort of self serving by one or two people, even some sort of theft that may be going on. That is totally inappropriate, wether it is aimed at Barry or memebrs of the ABP and the Forum as a whole should condem these posts.