Alex being Alex

[sizl]

I feel obliged to defend my original post that initiated this thread which is unfortunate in itself, but I am here to defend Alex.

First of all, let me start out by giving you my definition of Alex....
A unique individual, who is charismatic, artistic, and caring. He has an amazing ability to captivate an audience, and the heart to tear town a brick wall, but yet give you the shirt off of his back.

He has the gift of gab, and he has laid down some of the best one liners in the history of pool.

This is what I was trying to express when I titled the thread, "Alex being Alex". Nothing more.

Prior to the final I suggested we forfeit Alex due to his condition and wrap things up for the evening. The arena was full of spectators that had been waiting for the final mainly because of Alex's antics. My suggestion was greeted with a 95 percent negative reaction by the crowd. Danny D. said I have to let him play, his condition would not effect his play. Pat was not involved in the decision, however he heard Alex's antics going on prior to the match and did not bring up any concerns. Since I was not an official referee I asked Darren what he wanted me to do and he had said don't worry about it, it will be fine. In fact during the match he engaged with Alex while smiling all the time.

Bill

For all of the people that want to bash Alex, please read the above post again. Especially the statements in red. This is what the crowd wanted, and Daz was perfectly cool with the situation, as well as the officials.

I am not the type of persons to point fingers, but IF their is anyone for the AZ community to blame, it certainly should not be Alex.

I have said it before, and I will say it again, pool needs 50 more just like Alex Pagulayan, as he is a very colorful person.

Robots are gray, gray is dull, and believe me, we have a ton of gray in pool.

I need a beer! :wink:

 

[sjm]

It appears that he attempted to do the right thing and drop out. He was talked into playing by Danny D. Give the guy a break.

Do you think he'd be deserving of praise if he had forfeited because he showed up rip roaring drunk? In my view, the situation would have been nearly as regrettable.

Give the event organizers a break. Give the sponsors a break. Give the fans, many of whom spent $240 for their reserved seats at the DCC, a break. Give Accu-stats a break. Alex hasn't earned a break, and his complete lack of a sense of obligation to those who make the events at the DCC possible is, in my view, regrettable and reflects poorly on our sport.

The title of this thread could hardly be less appropriate. Alex wasn't being Alex at all on this occasion. Profane, impolite, drunken behavior is not what drew us to Alex. He can be colorful and civil at the same time, and when he is both, that's when we are drawn to him for his rare combination of talent and charisma.

 

[jason]

Do you think he'd be deserving of praise if he had forfeited because he showed up rip roaring drunk? In my view, the situation would have been nearly as regrettable.

Give the event organizers a break. Give the sponsors a break. Give the fans, many of whom spent $240 for their reserved seats at the DCC, a break. Give Accu-stats a break. Alex hasn't earned a break, and his complete lack of a sense of obligation to those who make the events at the DCC possible is, in my view, regrettable and reflects poorly on our sport.

The title of this thread could hardly be less appropriate. Alex wasn't being Alex at all on this occasion. Profane, impolite, drunken behavior is not what drew us to Alex. He can be colorful and civil at the same time, and when he is both, that's when we are drawn to him for his rare combination of talent and charisma.

Alex owes nothing to no body. He is responsible for his own actions that is it!

Post your money...I will take ALEX 100%.

 

[hangemhigh]

I need a beer! :wink:

How far can you broad jump?

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Alex owes nothing to no body. He is responsible for his own actions that is it!

I will respectfully disagree.

I believe Alex, who by all accounts is one of the nicest, kindest, most charismatic, dynamic, incredibly talented players to ever pick up a cue, owes courtesy to his fans and those who work so hard to put on the events he participates in.

Common courtesy should never be lost.

I do not believe a lynch mob should be sent out looking for Alex over this mishap. But I think he is a smart young man who should, after reflecting on this, chart a different course for all future events.

I don't know Alex personally but I know some of you who have posted here do. Those who do know Alex would likely be quick to confirm that he would never knowingly want to hurt anyone with his actions.

Well, there were some who feel disrespected and hurt.

This is a point worth considering, IMHO.

That's all.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[jason]

I will respectfully disagree.

I too will respectfully disagree.

People choose to be fans. At no point is there any obligation of any kind to anyone. Alex should be Alex. He shouldn't change who he is or what he does for anyone.

This seems to happen all the time in marriage. A woman tries to change a man into a Prince on a white horse when she actually married a big fat slob.

Because you perceive someone to be something they are not, does not make it true.

Some will argue that they paid to go see him play. In that case, I would agree that he does have a responsibility, but to the best of my knowledge, Alex paid his entry fee just like everyone else. If you were disappointed by what you thought you were promised to see, the responsibility lands on the shoulders of the tournament director. Until players are paid directly for showing up, they have no responsibility to anyone but themselves.

 

[JCIN]

Do you think he'd be deserving of praise if he had forfeited because he showed up rip roaring drunk? In my view, the situation would have been nearly as regrettable.

Give the event organizers a break. Give the sponsors a break. Give the fans, many of whom spent $240 for their reserved seats at the DCC, a break. Give Accu-stats a break. Alex hasn't earned a break, and his complete lack of a sense of obligation to those who make the events at the DCC possible is, in my view, regrettable and reflects poorly on our sport.

The title of this thread could hardly be less appropriate. Alex wasn't being Alex at all on this occasion. Profane, impolite, drunken behavior is not what drew us to Alex. He can be colorful and civil at the same time, and when he is both, that's when we are drawn to him for his rare combination of talent and charisma.

Actually Alex or any other player owes nothing to a tournament or event they pay to take part in. If they want to sleep in, go to a movie, get drunk or go sky diving they are free to do just that. Most pro's try not to do those things because they are worried about a reputation,sponsor deals and difference in prize money. Alex at that particular point in time cared about none of the above. He tried to forfeit because he knew he was in no state to play but organizers (in his eyes) tried to get him to play. To blast him for giving the show he thought they wanted is a little silly.

I think its disingenuous to bring up the fans paying $240 in this case. They didn't pay $240 for the 14.1 finals. They paid that for a week of feature tournament matches. Most of those reserved seats would have been empty if Alex wouldn't have been the one playing.

If anyone in the entire game has earned a break its Alex. Saying everyone else is in the clear and all the heat lies on Alex is just wrong. If he just doesn't show up to get talked into playing and there is no funny show for all in attendance this is a 5 post thread in the 14.1 forum forgotten about after two days.

 

[jay helfert]

This is well said and, as I noted in my earlier post in this thread, Alex was the reason that the final was so well attended compared to other years.

In the midst of this surprisingly large gathering was a lot of camaraderie. Despite Alex's inappropriate behavior, we in attendance had some fun. We'd all spent nine days together, experiencing the Derby City Classic all day every day. We were all a bit burnt out, even guys like me who do no more than sweat the matches. We, the closely knit pool players and fans who like each other a lot, knew it would be our last night together for quite some time, and many of us, myself included, used the opportunity to unwind by hanging out with those who had made the nine day poolfest so enjoyable and memorable.

This was the silver lining, just not for those watching the stream.

This post most clearly describes what went on in the Accu-Stats arena during Alex's match with Darren. We had fun and Alex was the catalyst. Was he drunk? Yes. Was he still funny and fun to watch? Yes. Did he play bad? Yes. That about sums it up. All and all, I think it was better that he played rather than forfeited, which would have been an easy thing for him to do. Good for Danny for getting him out there to play!

 

[jay helfert]

Do you think he'd be deserving of praise if he had forfeited because he showed up rip roaring drunk? In my view, the situation would have been nearly as regrettable.

Give the event organizers a break. Give the sponsors a break. Give the fans, many of whom spent $240 for their reserved seats at the DCC, a break. Give Accu-stats a break. Alex hasn't earned a break, and his complete lack of a sense of obligation to those who make the events at the DCC possible is, in my view, regrettable and reflects poorly on our sport.

The title of this thread could hardly be less appropriate. Alex wasn't being Alex at all on this occasion. Profane, impolite, drunken behavior is not what drew us to Alex. He can be colorful and civil at the same time, and when he is both, that's when we are drawn to him for his rare combination of talent and charisma.

One more good post by the esteemed SJM! He always seems able to capture the essence of what really takes place and crystallize it into rational thought. I wish I could do that more often.

 

[jsp]

Actually Alex or any other player owes nothing to a tournament or event they pay to take part in. If they want to sleep in, go to a movie, get drunk or go sky diving they are free to do just that.

How would you feel if Earl shows up on the final day of the upcoming TAR match completely drunk? Or what if Earl simply doesn't show up since he's already down big and he'd rather go sky diving? Would you inform the PO-ed TAR viewers that Earl is "free to do just that"?

 

[Ktown D]

How would you feel if Earl shows up on the final day of the upcoming TAR match completely drunk? Or what if Earl simply doesn't show up since he's already down big and he'd rather go sky diving? Would you inform the PO-ed TAR viewers that Earl is "free to do just that"?

Apples and oranges.......

When posters take fliers like this one to show how smart they are, do they realize after the fact that it was silly to post what they did? I have often wondered when I have read posts that are so far out in left field, if the posters actually thought what they were posting was relevant or if they just did it to see what response they would get.

Short answer to your rather silly question..... Earl's backer(s) would care a whole hell of a lot more than Justin would.

 

[jsp]

Apples and oranges.......

Why?

Short answer to your rather silly question..... Earl's backer(s) would care a whole hell of a lot more than Justin would.

No doubt the backers would care. That doesn't mean JCIN would not care, or the TAR viewers.

EDIT: Maybe I'm wrong and that the participants in TAR are under contract to show up every day and not be drunk. If that's the case, then it would be apples and oranges (assuming there are no such contracts at DCC).

 

[Ktown D]

Why?
Because they are totally different formats. The 14.1 event Alex entered on his own coin, if he wants to blow his money more power to him. He didn't have a stakehorse putting up a large sum for him to play and the event was not a stand alone PPV event that was in place solely because of his attendance. I can't believe I am having to break this down for you.

No doubt the backers would care. That doesn't mean JCIN would not care, or the TAR viewers.

I didn't say Justin or the viewers wouldn't be a little peeved about it, but what could be done? They paid to watch what goes down, they would be seeing it. Would it make Earl look like more of an ass that he already does? Possibly, but that is a very slippery slope and I am staying off the edge.

EDIT: Maybe I'm wrong and that the participants in TAR are under contract to show up every day and not be drunk. If that's the case, then it would be apples and oranges (assuming there are no such contracts at DCC).

Dude, I understand you don't get it....honest injun I do, but I will try to shed some light. In a TAR match players are playing for 10K against losing 10K. In Alex's 14.1 match he was guaranteed 1800, best he could do was 2500. Bottom line... he was aggavated, exhausted and assured of a payday regardless. I am not sure if he and Darren made a saver for a couple hundred but if they did then the difference was more minimal and the desire to unwind and show his ass outweighed the desire for the small additional payday he may receive if he played well.

There is a huge difference between dicking off someone else's 10K you travelled to play for and dicking off a couple hundred difference in prize that was basically a free add-on to a tournament he was already attending.

I have wasted about 15 minutes of my life explaining this, I hope it helps.

 

[jsp]

I didn't say Justin or the viewers wouldn't be a little peeved about it, but what could be done? They paid to watch what goes down, they would be seeing it. Would it make Earl look like more of an ass that he already does? Possibly...

Alright, so you get my point.

There is a huge difference between dicking off someone else's 10K you travelled to play for and dicking off a couple hundred difference in prize that was basically a free add-on to a tournament he was already attending.

Oh, and I would give a little more respect to the gentlemen who organized and funded the 14.1 tournament. After all, it was their money that went to the pockets of the players.

 

[JCIN]

How would you feel if Earl shows up on the final day of the upcoming TAR match completely drunk? Or what if Earl simply doesn't show up since he's already down big and he'd rather go sky diving? Would you inform the PO-ed TAR viewers that Earl is "free to do just that"?

Sure. And then I would forfeit his ass (or anyone who did the same thing) and hand his $10K to Shane. At that point the player could deal with his backer and the host location to the best of his ability. I would refund anyone who wanted one and let everyone know who had screwed the pooch. Players are free to make the choice to do what they like and I am free to make the consequences as much a pain in the ass as humanly possible.

We had one player almost get barred out of the host location after the second day of a match. His backer said if they kicked his player out for being obnoxious and starting trouble he wanted his post back since he couldn't finish the match. Nasty politely explained that is not how things worked. If a guy can't control himself there is nothing we can do about it but he will be losing the money put in on his behalf.

If you can explain to me a legal way to make a grown man do something he doesn't want to do I would love to hear it.

 

[Ktown D]

Alright, so you get my point.


Oh, and I would give a little more respect to the gentlemen who organized and funded the 14.1 tournament. After all, it was their money that went to the pockets of the players.

Get off your high horse. I wasn't categorizing the 14.1 event as a sideshow, I was merely stating the logistical difference in the 2 events.

 

[corvette1340]

what is this 14.1 you speak of?

 

[mikeyfrost]

Sure. And then I would forfeit his ass (or anyone who did the same thing) and hand his $10K to Shane. At that point the player could deal with his backer and the host location to the best of his ability. I would refund anyone who wanted one and let everyone know who had screwed the pooch. Players are free to make the choice to do what they like and I am free to make the consequences as much a pain in the ass as humanly possible.

We had one player almost get barred out of the host location after the second day of a match. His backer said if they kicked his player out for being obnoxious and starting trouble he wanted his post back since he couldn't finish the match. Nasty politely explained that is not how things worked. If a guy can't control himself there is nothing we can do about it but he will be losing the money put in on his behalf.

If you can explain to me a legal way to make a grown man do something he doesn't want to do I would love to hear it.

Watch Friday....Debo has mind control. Hope that helps. I was surprised there was a Day 3 of that one event cause lord knows it went sideways in that *****.

 

[vladmin]

I met Alex tonight for the first time. He was in Toronto for a short vacation and he gambled 2 sets with Johnny Morra. I felt like Im watching a TAR match only live. Before they start playing Alex said that he is really tired and wants to sleep. They broke even after 2 sets and Alex said he wants to sleep. However, for the next 20 minutes he spent time taking pictures, signing autographs and all that. You could see he wasnt thrilled about it but he gave his best. It was a nice experience.

Now, talking about that night at the DCC, for me, it feels that the money spent to watch that game were better spent than the money I paid for the TAR race between Shane and Mika (no disrespect to JCIN & TAR - you guys pulled together an amazing event). Mika was out of line with his cues swapping, trying to shark Shane and so on. Was there any drama about it ? I might be wrong but I only remember seeing a line or two about that. Hwever, watching Alex play Daz was fun, entertaining and different. Rarely you see a final as casual and friendly as that one. Sure, he played bad but I like both players and Darren put on a solid performance.

From a sportsmanship conduct POV, Alex was out of line. However, it's one of those things that happens or happened to all of us. To act stupid in a situation where you really shouldnt. Thats what it comes down to for me. Not that its a pool tournament or a money match or you're Ben Johnson and you just got caught.

We're all human beings, we all screw up at times, give the guy a break. Watch his race with Shane from DCC 2008. Best match ever (thanks JCIN & TAR for that).

 

[Danktrees]

double post