Just watched the video.....Who's that very young, handsome bald guy doing the announcing?? 
Allen Hopkins' short/push stroke.
- Thread starter LAMas
- Start date
I watched Alex several times at the Open this year and noticed this. Very short warm-up strokes but before he pulled the trigger he pulled all the way back to the ferrule.
You sure u got the rite guy CARL (PUNKY)JONES,dont get me wrong punky could play ,but not with the likes of Strickland,Tom(cigar)vanover here in baltimore,always would spot punky the 7 playing 9ball and punky could never win,so saying that punky beat Earl,thats hard for me to take!
The "push" in Allen's stroke isn't what tilts me...it's his pre-shot routine.
He air strokes a few times, bends over the shot, takes some quick practice strokes, lifts his head as if he is about to stand up off the shot (!), then drops his head again & SHOVE goes the CB after another few practice strokes.
I get un-nerved watching him, but he NEVER strays from this pattern. He looks so uncomfortable over the shot, but NEVER misses either! LOL
He air strokes a few times, bends over the shot, takes some quick practice strokes, lifts his head as if he is about to stand up off the shot (!), then drops his head again & SHOVE goes the CB after another few practice strokes.
I get un-nerved watching him, but he NEVER strays from this pattern. He looks so uncomfortable over the shot, but NEVER misses either! LOL
I just wonder how he gets the power and spin he does with such a short stroke.
I like the idea of Improved accuracy with a shorter stroke. However, I think a pool stroke is like a running stride. I think each persons body has a natural length that is most accurate and repeatable for them. I think that figuring that out for each individual and honing it's accuracy is what one should focus on.
If you tried to Change your running stride it would generally become inefficient u less that individual had some major flaw in their running form. Tweaks here and there would more likely be what would benefit each persons stride. I see the pool stroke being very similar
I like the idea of Improved accuracy with a shorter stroke. However, I think a pool stroke is like a running stride. I think each persons body has a natural length that is most accurate and repeatable for them. I think that figuring that out for each individual and honing it's accuracy is what one should focus on.
If you tried to Change your running stride it would generally become inefficient u less that individual had some major flaw in their running form. Tweaks here and there would more likely be what would benefit each persons stride. I see the pool stroke being very similar
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I agree in principle with having a shorter more controllable stroke vs. the long, loopy ones we see today. Watching Hopkins, or even Grady, have those short but highly accurate strokes is certainly not something you can teach everyone to do, most people's tendencies would be to do a lot of flinching, jabbing, or tightening trying to get the required power on the stroke, not to mention trying to teach speed control with such a short quick motion. But short back certainly does promote natural acceleration, much like in the putting stroke, where a too-long backstroke usually produces a poor result.
I for one find I fall victim to the previously mentioned bridge length creep as well. Part of it is being able to see enough of the stick, with a closed bridge and lower stance you really need a 8 - 10 inch bridge minimum to see a good portion of the stick, and it seems as your confidence dips you want to see more and more to get that good straight reference line to your target. I guess to combat this you either need to deal with a shorter reference line, stand a little taller, or like Alex bridge longer but not pull back the whole way (which is traditionally frowned upon as well).
After the last few months of trying to get my game back on track, I seem to have settled on a medium length bridge - 10 - 11" - and found that for me at least a long, smooth pull back almost to my bridge promoted a straight through motion and smooth power. When I was taking shorter warmup strokes or not pulling all the way back I found myself flinching or steering more, trying to "help" the ball. But that was just what worked for me. If I could play as fluidly with a 6 - 8" bridge I would, certainly minimizes alignment errors.
Scott
I for one find I fall victim to the previously mentioned bridge length creep as well. Part of it is being able to see enough of the stick, with a closed bridge and lower stance you really need a 8 - 10 inch bridge minimum to see a good portion of the stick, and it seems as your confidence dips you want to see more and more to get that good straight reference line to your target. I guess to combat this you either need to deal with a shorter reference line, stand a little taller, or like Alex bridge longer but not pull back the whole way (which is traditionally frowned upon as well).
After the last few months of trying to get my game back on track, I seem to have settled on a medium length bridge - 10 - 11" - and found that for me at least a long, smooth pull back almost to my bridge promoted a straight through motion and smooth power. When I was taking shorter warmup strokes or not pulling all the way back I found myself flinching or steering more, trying to "help" the ball. But that was just what worked for me. If I could play as fluidly with a 6 - 8" bridge I would, certainly minimizes alignment errors.
Scott
The whole key is being accurate. That is why fundamentals and stroking straight are pushed so much. Now, think about it... someone gives you a pin, and tells you to poke a little dot on the wall with it. Which way are you most likely to hit the exact spot you want to- by putting the pin between the closed fingers of your fist and hitting at the target, or by putting it between the fingers of your fist and putting your fist one inch from the target, aiming it accurately, then just pushing forward?
In my opinion, Hopkins has it right, and the rest of us have it wrong. I played around with a short stroke for quite a while, and it is very accurate. Amazing how little you actually have to do with the cb when hit accurately, and how repeatable position play can be. Problem is, it's just plain more fun to have a bigger and longer stroke.
You ever get in a slump, try the short stroke. Odds are you will come right out of the slump for the sole reason you are accurate again.
Well thought Neil.
He lifts is head to see center ball.
Try Dr. Daves BHE approach. Line up a medium distance shot, full ball hit, and using BHE for either right or left english, play with your bridge length until you hit the shot as a perfect stop shot. If you are trying to hit a full ball hit, then when the length is correct, the shot will result in a stop shot.
This whole topic is very interesting. I have played around with stroke length, and I do believe that, at least for me, shortening up a bit leads to increased accuracy.
Braden
This whole topic is very interesting. I have played around with stroke length, and I do believe that, at least for me, shortening up a bit leads to increased accuracy.
Braden
you sure you want to go this route for accuracy?
I much prefer the way of the most accurate cueists in the world.
http://youtu.be/0B4kWIL-YAo
http://youtu.be/PXFUp8h1l5Y
http://youtu.be/wDGOkkhsX8I
http://youtu.be/VXxlyS-gZd8
I much prefer the way of the most accurate cueists in the world.
http://youtu.be/0B4kWIL-YAo
http://youtu.be/PXFUp8h1l5Y
http://youtu.be/wDGOkkhsX8I
http://youtu.be/VXxlyS-gZd8
All i can say about Allens stroke is there is less room for error
What I find interesting about Hopkins is that his practice strokes are a mix of short and relatively normal length strokes. The story about the too-small room is clearly not the complete answer, as in that case he wouldn't have enough room to draw back for the practice strokes.
It seems he is using regular practice strokes for timing and speed control, then the final push stroke for accuracy. Interesting combination and clearly works great for him.
It seems he is using regular practice strokes for timing and speed control, then the final push stroke for accuracy. Interesting combination and clearly works great for him.
This is one reason to not shorten your bridge length and maintain consistency with spin. Changing cues would have a similar effect on BHE.
A more compact movement is always simpler to use, but hard to maintain. If you find an improvement in your game by shortening your stroke, this should be the clue that points to your flaw(s) when using a longer stroke. They will always come back as your body returns to your natural bridge/stroke length.
Best,
Mike
I imagine he developed that stroke as a kid and stayed with it. There is a famous bowler from St Louis who just passed away named Don Carter who bowled with an odd delivery which he developed as a kid and never changed. First sports personality to sign a million dollar endorsement contract.
Stroke
Allen's stroke doesn't even look like a stroke at all, it looks more like a push than anything else. I find it amazing that he can be as accurate as he is.
Back in 1962 when I was first learning to play Pool, I read 3 different books on Pool, and they all said your stroke length should be 6-8". I know a lot of players today prefer a longer stroke length, but sometimes that can work against you on some shots. (and the Filapinos are an exception to this).
Allen's stroke doesn't even look like a stroke at all, it looks more like a push than anything else. I find it amazing that he can be as accurate as he is.
Back in 1962 when I was first learning to play Pool, I read 3 different books on Pool, and they all said your stroke length should be 6-8". I know a lot of players today prefer a longer stroke length, but sometimes that can work against you on some shots. (and the Filapinos are an exception to this).
Allen gives an entertaining interview with the Runout Radio podcast on episode 22. He says his original home table was a 7 foot and required a short cue to use a long backstroke. He instead wanted to use his normal cue and therefore developed his short stroke. He goes on to talk about an informal contest he did with some other players where he out drew them, even they had big strokes. He even says it was an advantage when playing on the road because other players would assume he did not know how to play!
I listened to the podcast- it was quite interesting in several ways. I didn't realize he sacrificed his competitive playing for his family. Also, I was surprised he didn't mention Earl as one of his toughest competitors- he just mentioned Sigel and Hall.
One udder thing about his PSR: he consistently switches hands to chalk to start it off. Obviously he thinks it's important because he's religious about it. I've even seen him get down on a shot, raise up, switch hands to chalk and start over again.
Lou Figueroa
That's because Sigel and Hall were "all-around" tougher opponents in general. Strickland was a 9ball wizard phenom, but that was about it.
Before anyone chirps and brings up Earl's 400 ball run in 14.1 or the fact he won a big 1pkt event a year or two ago, I'm talking about "in general" and over a long period of time. Earl could never beat Sigel in 14.1, was an underdog in the other games and was even money in 9ball. The same goes for Buddy- he was prob even money in 9ball and the favorite in other games over a long stretch of time.
I asked Allen the same question over dinner one time. He said "Nobody beat Sigel more than Sigel beat them. If someone got the best of Sigel, they just weren't playing him long enough."