ATTENTION- ABP News : ABP Guidelines & Format for Sanctioned Events

[JCIN]

You do realize that what you described right now is pool in its current state? All sports have big sponsors. It would be nice to put a pool table in the middle of a football field and fill the whole stadium with spectators. The income from the tickets would be enough to pay for the prize money of the entire US Open, the Seminole etc. etc. But guess what? It can't be done because pool at its current state only appeals to pool players who are not enough to fill an entire row of seats in the above example. How many will watch the accustats live ppv of this year's open? 100? 1000 tops? You don't want something bigger than that?

If pro pool does not get serious live TV coverage anytime soon, then we will remain where we are. We will be a couple hundred people arguing about what is wrong with pool not being popular anymore, when we know that there is no serious, organized pro tour with rankings that may attract major sponsorship, which will eventually lead to TV time.

I guess the difference between us is that I am actually looking for a feasible plan that can be accomplished with the resources available and you are pontificating on how things should be. There has been way too much of one and not enough of the other around pro pool for a long time.

 

[metallicane]

It amazes me that darts and snooker get so much air time in Europe. Why can't this be done here?

 

[JCIN]

It amazes me that darts and snooker get so much air time in Europe. Why can't this be done here?

Darts and Snooker both have one thing in common: Barry Hearn and Match Room. It cant be done here because Americans in the mainstream simply will not watch boring ass stuff like darts, Snooker or Pool. I am pretty sure if there was a lucrative market for it or even a prospective one that the people who do it for a living all over the world would give it a shot in the US. By people I mean the ones who produce for television.

Bottom line is that most people in the U.S. would simply rather watch grass grow.

 

[Mickey Qualls]

ABP, if you really want to be taken seriously, here's a good start...

http://www.ehow.com/how_2107810_write-public-relations-plan.html
Take particular note of the "Tips and Warnings" section of the page in this link...

http://www.pickthebrain.com/blog/how-to-sell-yourself/
Some of the comments are worth reading, but be sure to read the section titled "Have a Saleable Package"...

http://www.heavypen.com/promote/
Oddly enough, there is a section called "The Value of Angles". It gives a great example of the recovery after a PR fail...

http://www.britell.com/text/OrganizeToWin.pdf
This is a FREE downloadable PDF file titled "ORGANIZE TO WIN - A GRASSROOTS ACTIVIST'S HANDBOOK - A GUIDE TO HELP PEOPLE ORGANIZE COMMUNITY CAMPAIGNS"...

And try implementing these examples in the ABP organization...

 

[cleary]

Sponsors outside pool is the only way to go in my opinion. Pepsi made the start with the US Open.

Is it known what Pepsi has done for the US Open? Is it a local Pepsi bottling company or corporate Pepsi? That is a huge huge difference.

 

[Black-Balled]

Is it known what Pepsi has done for the US Open? Is it a local Pepsi bottling company or corporate Pepsi? That is a huge huge difference.

I don't believe it has been disclosed...though I think it is free co2 Pepsico drinks for exclusitivity and banners.

Oh, its a start...

 

[justadub]

Darts and Snooker both have one thing in common: Barry Hearn and Match Room. It cant be done here because Americans in the mainstream simply will not watch boring ass stuff like darts, Snooker or Pool. I am pretty sure if there was a lucrative market for it or even a prospective one that the people who do it for a living all over the world would give it a shot in the US. By people I mean the ones who produce for television.

Bottom line is that most people in the U.S. would simply rather watch grass grow.

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but is there a reason why Barry Hearn and Matchroom can't or won't try to do something here? It is a much bigger market, though no doubt there are significant differences in our market as compared to in Europe...

He is a proven success, and many involved in pool here in the states must have relationships with him.

 

[Holly]

I'm sure this has been addressed before, but is there a reason why Barry Hearn and Matchroom can't or won't try to do something here? It is a much bigger market, though no doubt there are significant differences in our market as compared to in Europe...

He is a proven success, and many involved in pool here in the states must have relationships with him.

The team at Matchroom are an amazing group who many at CSI know well. There is one difference between the televised media market in the US in comparison to other parts of the world. In sports, ESPN is the primary more known sports Network the will allow programming in a variety of sports. However they are expensive, require the producers to pay for the production costs, often require that ESPN approved staff be used in the production, and then may be asked to sell your rights to all future airings of what you paid to produce to ESPN. There was a time when pool was gaining popularity through televised matches (WPBA), but that is not the same as ratings in pool have dropped the last several years on ESPN. Trick Shot Magic actually gets decent numbers from what I understand.

I'd like folks to look at an alternative...
Due to the rise in developing technology in how programming is delivered...people are slowly moving away from traditional TV....First cable, than DVR, then online...eventually almost all programming will become web based and the old ways of doing things will completely disapate. Even groups like Netflicks (who are in recovery after shooting themselves in the foot) and Hulu are looking into developing their own original programing. If groups like that start to consider carrying sports (pool of course being one)....there we might be able to book a winner.

Food for thought!

I have to run to a meeting now...but want to put together more stats for folks when I'm done.

 

[cleary]

I don't believe it has been disclosed...though I think it is free co2 Pepsico drinks for exclusitivity and banners.

Oh, its a start...

Well, I guess that is my point. It's not really a "start". Don't label me as a hater, just being realistic. A local bottler will do a deal like that with nearly anything. They all have local advertising budgets and what one will do in the Virginia beach area, will not even be known in Richmond. People on here see "PEPSI" and think our problems are being solved when really its just a bit misleading.

I know no knowledge of their deal and am guessing its a local bottler... but I've dealt with local Coke-a-cola bottlers in the past with similar deals and know how easy it can be. Even if they throw in $500 (not terribly unrealistic) it still doesn't scratch the surface.

 

[jay helfert]

The team at Matchroom are an amazing group who many at CSI know well. There is one difference between the televised media market in the US in comparison to other parts of the world. In sports, ESPN is the primary more known sports Network the will allow programming in a variety of sports. However they are expensive, require the producers to pay for the production costs, often require that ESPN approved staff be used in the production, and then may be asked to sell your rights to all future airings of what you paid to produce to ESPN. There was a time when pool was gaining popularity through televised matches (WPBA), but that is not the same as ratings in pool have dropped the last several years on ESPN. Trick Shot Magic actually gets decent numbers from what I understand.

I'd like folks to look at an alternative...
Due to the rise in developing technology in how programming is delivered...people are slowly moving away from traditional TV....First cable, than DVR, then online...eventually almost all programming will become web based and the old ways of doing things will completely disapate. Even groups like Netflicks (who are in recovery after shooting themselves in the foot) and Hulu are looking into developing their own original programing. If groups like that start to consider carrying sports (pool of course being one)....there we might be able to book a winner.

Food for thought!

I have to run to a meeting now...but want to put together more stats for folks when I'm done.

Just as a point of clarification Holly, Matchroom produces these events (usually in conjunction with SkySports, a larger network then ESPN!), and then the final televised product is sold to other television networks all over the world. That is, if they want to buy it. Unfortunately the U.S. markets are currently not buying much pool programming. Occasionally we might see edited versions of the World Pool Championships or Mosconi Cup on Fox Sports. That's about it right now. A very sad state of affairs imo.

I contend that if the Mosconi Cup was shown in its entirety here, they would develop an audience for pool. It is that exciting! The World Cup of Pool is another great event that is televised and shown in many countries, that we do not see here. Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but pool absolutely does work on TV! That's been proven with the huge ratings internationally. I've worked on shows in the Philippines that had live audiences of well over ten million people! Our sport has never been given a fair chance here in America, with the watered down (read that edited) versions of tournaments shown long after the fact. That is a formula guaranteed to fail, and it has.

 

[Black-Balled]

I don't believe it has been disclosed...though I think it is free co2 Pepsico drinks for exclusitivity and banners.

Oh, its a start...

Well, I guess that is my point. It's not really a "start". Don't label me as a hater, just being realistic. A local bottler will do a deal like that with nearly anything. They all have local advertising budgets and what one will do in the Virginia beach area, will not even be known in Richmond. People on here see "PEPSI" and think our problems are being solved when really its just a bit misleading.

I know no knowledge of their deal and am guessing its a local bottler... but I've dealt with local Coke-a-cola bottlers in the past with similar deals and know how easy it can be. Even if they throw in $500 (not terribly unrealistic) it still doesn't scratch the surface.

How about free cups? You pool people are so hard to please.

Oh- and not free sodas to the consumer...to the host! (Don't be getting your hopes up.)

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

It's not breath holding. What ABP is doing is a form of a strike.

It's really more simple than it looks. Not every pro pool player is making enough money to live at the moment, which let's face it, is unfair. Some jocks who kick a ball around a 100-yard pitch make enough money to feed the entire central Africa, and Corey Deuel who is equally talented and has dedicated his life in pool is not even in the 2011 player money list.

Everything ABP has stated in its guidelines is about making money out of the game. Seeding takes the draw factor out of the table, and so are call shots. Minimum added fees give the players more decent payouts. What they are trying to do is make more pros get paid. Why is this bad? That's why they are called pros anyway. Why is it bad to help out more people who have been playing pool for their entire lives and are talented enough to win major events?

If ABP had never lifted their boycott on the US Open, who exactly would have bought the streaming PPV from Accu-stats? I know I wouldn't. I would pay to watch Archer or Shane. The same goes for more tournaments in the future who won't accept the rules from ABP. Perhaps there are going to be negotiations and a rule or two may change in the guidelines, but I think that some tournaments are going to be boycotted by the ABP players and it would be really interesting to see what happens to those tournaments in terms of attendance or non-free live streaming.

On the other hand, when more and more tournaments compromise with the ABP, a proper Pro tour will start kicking in. When things will get more serious and professional, I am sure that sponsors outside the game of pool will start chipping in. ABP's strategy is not wrong and this is not a troll thread either. There are professionals out there who rely on gambling, teaching and trick shots to make a living when they could make this money from tournaments alone just like snooker players. What we need is a proper pro tour and sponsorship will come along.

And I don't understand what the fuss is all about with pros boycotting certain events. There are going to be pro tourneys and amateur tourneys just like every other sport. Why would I want to play Appleton after all? He should play with players of his caliber in an all-pro tournament. Pool will live on with different types of tournaments.

P.S. @JAM
Thanks, it's nice to know that someone agrees with you.

I'm not sure I understand this post. In the first part you seem to be agreeing with the ABP position but in the second part you suggest that if promoters start compromising with the ABP then there is a chance of success. Well, which is it? I mean, compromise is a two way street by definition.

Having said all that, I think we are getting ahead of ourselves and reading things into this press release that aren't there. Where does this announcement say that any event that doesn't follow these guidelines will not have ABP players attending? I didn't see anything in this that says they will strike an event that doesn't adhere to these rules. All it says is these are the requirements to have an event be included as an ABP points event. It doesn't say anything about ABP members not playing if these requirements and rules aren't in place (for example, a 9 Ball event that isn't call shot). It simply says that the event wouldn't qualify as an ABP points event.

Sorry, but I don't read anything in this announcement that says strike.

 

[Ghosst]

Our sport has never been given a fair chance here in (North) America, with the watered down (read that edited) versions of tournaments shown long after the fact. That is a formula guaranteed to fail, and it has.

Now I have "B-I-N-G-O, and Bingo was his name-o" stuck in my head... Thanks Jay.

If you will excuse me, I'm off to catch up on the 2009 Mosconi Cup...

 

[ribdoner]

Darts and Snooker both have one thing in common: Barry Hearn and Match Room. It cant be done here because Americans in the mainstream simply will not watch boring ass stuff like darts, Snooker or Pool. I am pretty sure if there was a lucrative market for it or even a prospective one that the people who do it for a living all over the world would give it a shot in the US. By people I mean the ones who produce for television.

Bottom line is that most people in the U.S. would simply rather watch grass grow.

AND, it's free, which is all many can afford in this economy.

Streaming pool will be a home run if peeps get some jingle in their jeans

 

[beav99_4life]

Just as a point of clarification Holly, Matchroom produces these events (usually in conjunction with SkySports, a larger network then ESPN!), and then the final televised product is sold to other television networks all over the world.

Jay, you mean larger in terms of programming right? Because SkySports was valued at $2.1 billion this past year and as of 2009 ESPN was valued at over $28 billion.

 

[Scott Lee]

Justin...Well now...the person that told me heard it straight from Greg, and there was no "don't tell anyone, it's a secret" about it. He was merely sharing a conversation he had with Greg recently. Why would it make it more difficult for Greg? I just thought some people might like to know that Greg has already put plans into action for another DCC type event. No doubt Greg will announce it at the DCC...which is only a couple months off.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

I am hoping that if you keep posting up reports from your "sources" they will stop sharing things with you. We all have sources Scott. Do you think talking about events that havent happened or been announced yet makes it easier or harder for the people trying to do them?

 

[justadub]

While I realize that ESPN is the big daddy of sports on TV here in the states, there are conceivably other options. Comcast has regional sports networks all over the US. Versus has a variety of sports programs. (Something both of them have in common is they both also air poker programming....)

I would think that is someone was able to produce the programming and provide it to them, it would give those networks some programming options. The Mosconi Cup seems to be a no-brainer to me, and I cannot understand why that event is not on TV here in the states.

IF one of those networks (or any other network, not specifically those two) were to start airing pool, and it got any sort of response at all, ESPN would certainly be quick to follow. And as they already air pool programming in the rest of the world, that wouldn't be difficult to see happen at all.

Again, without any sort of real insight, this is all speculation. But with the plethora of TV networks all over the dial, I find it difficult to understand how something that is already produced cannot find a home here in the US.

 

[Island Drive]

Just as a point of clarification Holly, Matchroom produces these events (usually in conjunction with SkySports, a larger network then ESPN!), and then the final televised product is sold to other television networks all over the world. That is, if they want to buy it. Unfortunately the U.S. markets are currently not buying much pool programming. Occasionally we might see edited versions of the World Pool Championships or Mosconi Cup on Fox Sports. That's about it right now. A very sad state of affairs imo.

I contend that if the Mosconi Cup was shown in its entirety here, they would develop an audience for pool. It is that exciting! The World Cup of Pool is another great event that is televised and shown in many countries, that we do not see here. Forgive me for beating a dead horse, but pool absolutely does work on TV! That's been proven with the huge ratings internationally. I've worked on shows in the Philippines that had live audiences of well over ten million people! Our sport has never been given a fair chance here in America, with the watered down (read that edited) versions of tournaments shown long after the fact. That is a formula guaranteed to fail, and it has.

Very true Jay, the boiler plate shows of ESPN, that are outdated have little value, cept for the advertising dollars ESPN gets for the air time.
Matchroom sports has created a Pool Product, Not a dbl elim race to whatever, they know, it won't sell to the masses, so they reinvented aspects of the game and made it exciting and waaaaaaay different & FUN.
For a pro tour, have players playing sets, like in tennis, and having tiebreakers, have a proven track record for excitement and holding viewer interest.
I think this formula should be implemented by the ABP in quadrants around the US, and have a scoring system created for ranking points. Utilize the 24 sec shot clock like Billy I. said, and let em go. Sets work well with breaks between each and its exciting, pool needs that badly to sell to the general public. If you get knocked out in the first round, you can leave, don't need a hotel and all that goes with a long, draaaaaaaaaaaag out dbl elim event.
I don't play tennis, or golf, but I really enjoy watching.

 

[Neil]

............

 

[jay helfert]

Jay, you mean larger in terms of programming right? Because SkySports was valued at $2.1 billion this past year and as of 2009 ESPN was valued at over $28 billion.

I'm talking something called REACH, basically meaning how many people can potentially see their programming. Sky television reaches a wider market (larger audience) than ESPN.

What ESPN does is market their network better, both online and in many other ways. I did not know that Disney owns 80% of ESPN and that the value of ESPN comprises over 40% of the total value of Disney! ESPN has created many more revenue sources than SkySports, no question about that.