Yeah, I think ABC owned ESPN and Disney bought ABC.
ATTENTION- ABP News : ABP Guidelines & Format for Sanctioned Events
- Thread starter ABPpros
- Start date
Yeah, I think ABC owned ESPN and Disney bought ABC.
What in the world leads you to the conclusions I've highlighted above? Do you really think that if promoters start bending to the ABP's will that everything will just magically get better?
It starts with the PRODUCT. When the ABP has a viable product, THEN they can start dictating the rules.
Until then, I think Justin's idea is the best so far. Hit the road and see how easy it is to promote pool in America.
Ok, I was just checking. I wasn't sure if SkySports was in a similar position like ESPN and owned by another huge corporation. Another thing SkySports has going for it in terms of pool is that is has a much larger target audience in Asia and Europe. Pool is more of a time-slot filler here in the US on ESPN.
Steven, what are you doing spouting off your cold hard factual data? You know that has no place in this debate. The nerve of some people.
No it isn't. ABP members are not employees of those who promote pool events. They have no obligation to participate in anybody's event, and, through their often unruly behavior and poor attire during events, they have shown event promoters time and time again that they feel no obligation to them or to the image of the sport which they are asking promoters to sell to the sponsors and fans.
ABP is a product, plain and simple. It is a product that, according to the ABP guidelines costs $25,000 (the added money minimum indicated). It is a very good product, a product made available for purchase to pool promoters who must determine what their business model for a potential event will look like if they buy it. Intentionally oversimplifying things, the promoter of a pool event has revenues derived from sponsorship and ticket sales, and its costs are production costs and added prize money. The ABP is a product that some pool promoters would choose to buy. Others would opt against such purchase because they do not foresee a profit if they pay this price.
No it isn't. If you produce income for a business proprietor, you get paid. Being the best at something doesn't guarantee you anything unless the skill you have will allow others to generate income from it. What's unfair, or perhaps "unwise" is more accurate, is demanding so much money that proprietors rarely find a chance to profit by employing you and your services, which ultimately makes you less worthy of their pursuit. Recent history shows that pool promoters are struggling to make ends meet, even the most prominent of them. Some of them have or are about to split from the pool scene. I don't hear you weeping for them, despite the fact that ABP's pricing of its product is at odds with the realities of pool's current revenue picture to the point that pool's business model may start to crumble in America.
Absolutely not the case. The guidelines are self-serving and do not address much of what the fans care about or what the promoters care about. I've attended about 500 pool events in dozens of cities in my life, and I can offer two generalizations. First, nothing gets the crowd more excited than a golden break, but the golden beak is eliminated by the rules demanded by ABP. Second, nothing upsets the crowd more than slow play. I have left more than a few events in my day prior to completion because the matches dragged on forever and ever, resulting in finals that began after midnight. I don't see anything in the ABP guidelines about the use of the shot clock, which serves the interests of both fans and promoters, both beneficiaries when tournaments run on schedule.
Finally, fans like to see pros excelling in a pool discipline with which they are familiar. Each rule change that makes the game less recognizable to the more mainstream amateur players serves to disenfranchise those players and make them care less and less about the pro game. Remarkably enough, the same pros that choose to disenfranchise the mainstream amateur player in this way are the ones who argue that amateur pool should somehow support pro pool. I could offer many other examples but won't bother, but take note of the fact that the ABP guidelines are meant to serve the players, not anyone else.
Like the ABP, I dream of the day when pro pool generates the kind of revenue that will justify a lot of added money. Still, ask any marketing executive --- when a product isn't selling is not the time to raise its price. Right now, pro pool is a product that isn't selling very well in America, and that's why added moneys are just about where they were in the 1980's. By mandating a high price for the pro pool product, the ABP is not only dictating policy to the promoters, but dictating poor policy at that. Players and promoters and possibly even fans need to sit down together and map out an approach to selling pool. Unfortunately, the players of ABP don't see it that way, and, as we've seen in this thread, the promoters and fans are shocked by it.
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sjm...Great answers to a myriad of problems. Perhaps if the ABP lowered their minimum to, say $10K, they might get a few takers...maybe. I agree with you that a dictatorial style leaves a sour taste in most peoples' mouths.
I still believe (and put it into practice) that the current money to be made in pool, here in the USA, is in the entertainment end. I have a successful exhibition tour that takes me all over the country. People will pay to be entertained. Look what we pay to go to a movie ($30-$40 for a couple, when you include popcorn and soda). Today I read about a eastern European fellow, who is touring the country blowing gigantic bubbles. The tickets (in Detroit) were $25-$40 each!
For poolplayers to pay to be entertained, most would expect some trick shots, perhaps some instruction, and perhaps a demonstration of high level play. You have to be a showman...not just a good player...to keep an audience. Dressing and acting like a professional is, imo, an absolute must. It ain't easy...but the money is out there. The poolroom owner is already, in many cases, barely making it, so you can't look to them for a lot of work. That said, there are plenty of other avenues. Heck, I work the college market and work as hard as I want to...yet only reach a small fraction of the available market. Corporate and Military are other options who are willing to pay for good entertainment. Until there is a viable professional tour, the players are going to have to do whatever they can to survive...otherwise they STARVE, or heaven forbid...get a REAL job! :yikes:
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
I still believe (and put it into practice) that the current money to be made in pool, here in the USA, is in the entertainment end. I have a successful exhibition tour that takes me all over the country. People will pay to be entertained. Look what we pay to go to a movie ($30-$40 for a couple, when you include popcorn and soda). Today I read about a eastern European fellow, who is touring the country blowing gigantic bubbles. The tickets (in Detroit) were $25-$40 each!
For poolplayers to pay to be entertained, most would expect some trick shots, perhaps some instruction, and perhaps a demonstration of high level play. You have to be a showman...not just a good player...to keep an audience. Dressing and acting like a professional is, imo, an absolute must. It ain't easy...but the money is out there. The poolroom owner is already, in many cases, barely making it, so you can't look to them for a lot of work. That said, there are plenty of other avenues. Heck, I work the college market and work as hard as I want to...yet only reach a small fraction of the available market. Corporate and Military are other options who are willing to pay for good entertainment. Until there is a viable professional tour, the players are going to have to do whatever they can to survive...otherwise they STARVE, or heaven forbid...get a REAL job! :yikes:
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Mark, this is the point that had me scratching my head right from the onset of the formation of the ABP.
I vision an ABP meeting with a buncha roosters strutting around with their
chests stuck out.
By coming across as a bunch of arroogant SOBs, they are not only alienating themselves, but promoters, fans, etc.
That was the biggest turn off for myself and I found it very easy to be on the other side of the fence just out of principle.
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This whole ABP is a pipe dream started by a few top players. There are two US players so far that will make over 50k this year. With the US Open the last big purse of the year there could be one more US player to go to 50k before the end of the year. Not many US players travel out of the country anymore and the few that do are losing money on the deal or their sponsors are.
If promotors in the US were making a killing putting on pro events there would be a 25k or more event held every weekend. But that's not the case. Every US promotor rolls the dice every time he puts on a pro event. There is no gate to speak of at most events. There is no TV money. If the players keep these kinds of demands up they'll be back in poolrooms playing ring games with their own money against other top pros. After awhile all that will be left is a circle jerk. Johnnyt
If promotors in the US were making a killing putting on pro events there would be a 25k or more event held every weekend. But that's not the case. Every US promotor rolls the dice every time he puts on a pro event. There is no gate to speak of at most events. There is no TV money. If the players keep these kinds of demands up they'll be back in poolrooms playing ring games with their own money against other top pros. After awhile all that will be left is a circle jerk. Johnnyt
Know where you are coming from, Scott, but I can't say I have any number in mind. I think the point is that the ABP needs to sit down with its strategic partners in the pool business and figure out what guidelines for conducting future business make sense. Any minimum number for added money they jointly come up with is the right number in my books.
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ABP guidelines
Just a gentle bump - still wanting to know who posted and why they won't respond to questions.
Mark griffin
Just a gentle bump - still wanting to know who posted and why they won't respond to questions.
Mark griffin
After visiting th JA website, one could surmise it is JA.
I looked at JA's web site and I don't see anything indicating that JA started this thread.
However, since JA is the President of the ABP he is ultimately accountable for everything that happens to the ABP. For all practical purposes, JA is the author of this thread (even if someone else is actually the OP).
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ABP press release
I will BET that JA did NOT put out this press release.
Give me odds - and I will bet he did not even know about it.
This is not JA style.
Mark griffin
I will BET that JA did NOT put out this press release.
Give me odds - and I will bet he did not even know about it.
This is not JA style.
Mark griffin
Likewise there is no mention of this announcement on the ABP site.
But I agree that without individual ID of the poster qualifying that this is their personal perspective only, anything posted under that username is owned by the ABP like it or not. And JA is the President.
Still, there seems to be a lot of posts about how the ABP seems to be trying to dictate to promoters how to run their events but when I actually read the release all it seems to be announcing are the ABP guidelines for a tournament to qualify for sanctioning as an ABP points event. In fact, it says precisely that in the thread title. It doesn't say anything about players not showing up for tournaments that don't adhere to their guidelines. I don't really see that much to get all up in arms about, especially since at this point I don't think many promoters care about being a points event since any ABP rankings mean nothing right now.
It's clear the ABP wants their own ranking system and they want it to mean something. They want events to adhere to certain guidelines to qualify to be included as a ranking event. So they simply seem to be saying that as an incentive for any promoter that is willing to run such an event by these guidelines they will "encourage" their members to play in it and try to help promote it.
I just don't see this as a particularly provocative announcement. Is this really any different than Matchroom stating which events will be Mosconi Cup points events or the WPA stating the requirements for consideration for a World Championship - other than nobody cares?
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I viewed the video on his website and everything in the press release is in the video. The video apparently is made when the ABP was formed.
..............
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sceniccitypro
Registered
who do you think put out this press release
I believe most of the players that signed on with the ABP did so because they were told it was about getting the tournaments that slow pay to pay at the venue. Outside of the board members, not many others knew these other demands were coming. When you sign up for something and it turns out to be something other than you were told you can un sign...just like getting disengaged. Johnnyt
If indeed JA doesn't know about this thread, then he should know about it soon as I sent him an e-mail this morning.
ABP press release
Please note this thread started on 10-9. That is a week ago. Of course he knows by now!
I certainly hope you did not bother him while he is playing in the us open. He needs to not be distracted by some emails dealing with something that is a week old.
Mark griffin
Please note this thread started on 10-9. That is a week ago. Of course he knows by now!
I certainly hope you did not bother him while he is playing in the us open. He needs to not be distracted by some emails dealing with something that is a week old.
Mark griffin