Better equipment, shafts, Tips, and Kamui Chalk, but the 526 RUN RECORDS Stands?

Greats May Come And Go But This Has Never Happened With Willie Mosconi.

"John had about one chance in four of running 527 during that 18 days of trying."

Realistically, he had hardly any chance whatsoever but it sure wasn't 25% probability.
Maybe 1 in a 100 or 3 out of a 100 just to assign a number but more like 1 in a 1,000.

If it was going to happen, it would have already. There's just not enough interest in 14.1
to develop a new record holder. Instead of just focusing on Mr. Mosconi's herculean feat
of consecutively pocking 526 balls which no one has been to match or even come close
to running >500, turn your closer attention to his records in the U.S. Open Championship
where he trounced his opponents and just totally dominated the field....and on 10" tables.


Willie Mosconi, straight pool, 526 balls on an 8-foot table on March 20, 1954
in Springfield, OH (the official record, with 35 witness signatures). Mosconi is
also on record stating his highest practice runs on a 9' table are 608 and 589.
Willie had runs of 526, 365, 355, 322, 309 and regularly ran 150 and out.
Mosconi in straight pool had runs of 365, 355, 322 and 309 balls from 1945-1953.
According to Larry Guninger, he saw Mosconi run 200 or more balls at least 20 times!



There's been a lot of great performances but Willie owns the throne. Here are some
that came close Here are some other truly noteworthy accomplishments in 14.1.

Thomas Engert, straight pool, 491 balls (the number has been reported as 492 elsewhere, but Engert signs autographs with the number 491)

Dallas West, straight pool, 468 balls (according to Mark Wilson, West had three runs of 400 or more balls on 5x10 tables).

Babe Cranfield, straight pool, 32 racks (approx. 450 balls), witnessed by Dave Capone, who racked for Cranfield

Gene Nagy, straight pool, 430 balls

Dallas West, straight pool, 429 balls

Ray "Cool Cat" Martin, straight pool, 426 balls

Allen "Young Hoppe" Hopkins, 421 balls

Arthur "Babe" Cranfield, straight pool, 420 balls, in Syracuse on a 10' table, per George Fels

John McDevitt, four-ball, 409 balls against William Goldthwait - Bumstead Hall, Boston, MA, on Oct.30, 1866

Thorsten "The Hitman" Hohmann, straight pool, 408 balls

Earl "The Pearl" Strickland, straight pool, 408 balls

Alain Martel, straight pool, 408 balls

Jean Reverchon, artistic billiards, 404 balls, record competitive score

John Schmidt, straight pool, 403 balls (he also has runs of 400, 366, 294 and 245 balls).




The records for players running over 300 balls consecutively is very long & not surprisingly,
there are few contemporaneous players that qualify. 9 Ball & 10 Ball are faster games and
much easier than running hundreds of balls consecutively. let alone 526....Cudos to Willie.


Matt B.
 
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this record stands because Willie played better than everybody else

i talked with many of the top players from willie's era
No one thought they could beat him

I saw him play one exhibition,the guy broke,Willie ran 125

I never saw him miss
 
deanoc said:
this record stands because Willie played better than everybody else

i talked with many of the top players from willie's era
No one thought they could beat him

I saw him play one exhibition,the guy broke,Willie ran 125

I never saw him miss
Click to expand...

I played him in a exhibition at a Pool Room in Inglewood,CA.It was called the Billiard Tree in 1965 ..He broke and I ran 37 then he came up and ran 125 to win the game..What a pleaser to watch him play...I use to like to watch him also at South bay Bowl which was in Hawthorne Ca..He liked Ritche Florence and he would always play a few rounds of nine ball with Ritchie when he was out that way..
 
JoeyInCali said:
And the straight pool greats didn't think 9-ball bangers couldn't play straight pool.
So, what happened in Portland, Maine when PBT had their first straight pool tournament ?
Efren went to Al Romero at Hard Times and asked him how the game is played 2 weeks before the tournament .
Efren shows up and gets to the final . Had the tournament high run against James Rempe . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM4PdYbpLRA
In one shot, Grady and Danny had no clue how Efren was going to create a break ball. Efren pocketed a ball, drew the cue ball and kissed another ball that became the break ball. Danny said he never saw it coming.
https://youtu.be/sM4PdYbpLRA?t=704
Who gets in the final with Efren? CJ Wiley, another 9-ball banger.

The point here is, we really can't discount the great players on a game they don't even play anymore .
They can put freaking 15 balls on the same pocket .

We might as well argue who the better dancer was. Gene or Fred?
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oh my. Can you be that ignorant?

Efren, for all his talent, would be put into a coma by Mosconi at 14.1. Sure, Efren can run some balls playing all the wrong patterns, shooting the wrong shots, many a "Hail Mary" bank shot to keep a run going, and other low percentage shots.

But over the haul of a long match... Willie would *bury* Efren at 14.1.

Lou Figueroa
oh, and Fred was
way the better dancer
 
Bob Jewett said:
If Schmidt puts in as much time in the next thirty days as he did the first time he tried for 500, he is almost a favorite for 527. Last time he ran 100 on about a quarter of his tries. The only problem I see is that he might start thinking about it after 450.

Based on performance at Derby City, Orcullo can hit a higher average than Schmidt. Maybe someone should hire him for a month. And I wonder how Thomas "Mr. 491" Engert is hitting them.
Click to expand...


Is he polishing the balls every few racks?

Lou Figueroa
 
Bob Jewett said:
And Willie took around his own, personal, waxed balls to exhibitions. Until someone stole his special clean, waxed cue ball, that is.;)
Click to expand...


Yes, absolutely true.

But once Willie took off on a run there was no polishing of the balls every few racks. The balls got dirtier and dirtier and the mountain got steeper and steeper. If you polish the balls every few racks or so so that they open up like a bag of spilt popcorn with the gentlest of break shots it is totally different than going at it with the balls you started out with 200, 300, 400, 500 balls ago.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
Yes, absolutely true.

But once Willie took off on a run there was no polishing of the balls every few racks. The balls got dirtier and dirtier and the mountain got steeper and steeper. If you polish the balls every few racks or so so that they open up like a bag of spilt popcorn with the gentlest of break shots it is totally different than going at it with the balls you started out with 200, 300, 400, 500 balls ago.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

At pro snooker, the cue ball is cleaned every time a player requests it..object balls also.
....the PGA allows you to clean your golf ball before you putt.

Why should the balls at 14.1 look like they belong in a dive?
 
pt109 said:
At pro snooker, the cue ball is cleaned every time a player requests it..object balls also.
....the PGA allows you to clean your golf ball before you putt.

Why should the balls at 14.1 look like they belong in a dive?
Click to expand...

If you are going to "duplicate" something that has happened before and are going to say you "beat it", then you need to do it under the SAME conditions. If not, then you did "something else".

You can't say your tractor won the "mud race" if your tractor went through Perrier water with no mud.
 
pt109 said:
At pro snooker, the cue ball is cleaned every time a player requests it..object balls also.
....the PGA allows you to clean your golf ball before you putt.

Why should the balls at 14.1 look like they belong in a dive?
Click to expand...


I’m not talking about cleaning crap off the CB.

I’m talking about cleaning all the object balls every few racks during a long run attempt. If you play 14.1 you know that is something totally different.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
oh my. Can you be that ignorant?

Efren, for all his talent, would be put into a coma by Mosconi at 14.1. Sure, Efren can run some balls playing all the wrong patterns, shooting the wrong shots, many a "Hail Mary" bank shot to keep a run going, and other low percentage shots.

But over the haul of a long match... Willie would *bury* Efren at 14.1.

Lou Figueroa
oh, and Fred was
way the better dancer
Click to expand...

Err, who said Efren would have beat Willie at 14.1 ?
The point I was making was it sure didn't take long for these great 9-ball bangers to run 100's in straight pool. And they beat the straight pool players in their own game . Rempe was playing straight pool for a long time . Yet, Efren ran over him ON HIS FIRST straight pool tournament .

Now, you take the talents we have today. Pay them to play 14.1 exhibitions for years . Hold 14.1 world championships yearly.
Who's to say, these monsters wouldn't be running over 500 ?

This is an argument that can go on forever .
Questioning how good the players today can be at a game they don't even play anymore.
It ain't like snooker where you can argue greatness much easier because they are all playing the same exact game .

I'd take Efren at one-pocket and 15-ball over Willie .
Oh wait, Willie didn't play those games .

Same difference.
 
HawaiianEye said:
If you are going to "duplicate" something that has happened before and are going to say you "beat it", then you need to do it under the SAME conditions. If not, then you did "something else".

You can't say your tractor won the "mud race" if your tractor went through Perrier water with no mud.
Click to expand...

I'm not all that interested in duplicating Willie's run...for me, the 526 is a marvelous feat.
...today's conditions are better, I would like to see them used.
Engert's 491 is the best on a nine footer...it can stand alone.
Appleton's 200 competitively is a record also.

Willie's run will always be special to me...whether it stands or not.
...like a Scot who drove a golfball 365..(correction 361) yards...in the 1800s..with a hickory shafted club..
...and a leather ball filled with feathers...:eek:
...that gets outdriven a lot now...but that man is still a golf hero.
 
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HawaiianEye said:
If you are going to "duplicate" something that has happened before and are going to say you "beat it", then you need to do it under the SAME conditions. ...
Click to expand...
So.... Clay balls and fuzzy cloth. And no low-squirt shafts. And a 4-by-8 with pockets the size of which Bill Smith will specify shortly. And sanded slate on the shelves of the pockets so balls can't hang.

No. Pool has moved on.

Any regulation table is fine. Any regulation set of balls is fine.

As for official recognition of any record, that is a problem. I don't know of a pool organization that does records any more.
 
Bob Jewett said:
So.... Clay balls and fuzzy cloth. And no low-squirt shafts. And a 4-by-8 with pockets the size of which Bill Smith will specify shortly. And sanded slate on the shelves of the pockets so balls can't hang.

No. Pool has moved on.

Any regulation table is fine. Any regulation set of balls is fine.

As for official recognition of any record, that is a problem. I don't know of a pool organization that does records any more.
Click to expand...

Go to post #326, for some specs on the table and pockets. How the run got started and the shot that ended it!
 
JoeyInCali said:
Err, who said Efren would have beat Willie at 14.1 ?
The point I was making was it sure didn't take long for these great 9-ball bangers to run 100's in straight pool. And they beat the straight pool players in their own game . Rempe was playing straight pool for a long time . Yet, Efren ran over him ON HIS FIRST straight pool tournament .

Now, you take the talents we have today. Pay them to play 14.1 exhibitions for years . Hold 14.1 world championships yearly.
Who's to say, these monsters wouldn't be running over 500 ?

This is an argument that can go on forever .
Questioning how good the players today can be at a game they don't even play anymore.
It ain't like snooker where you can argue greatness much easier because they are all playing the same exact game .

I'd take Efren at one-pocket and 15-ball over Willie .
Oh wait, Willie didn't play those games .

Same difference.
Click to expand...

I think if Willie played in this era playing todays mainsteam games he'd be AT MINIMUM Efren "like" and as I've been told over the years by those who played and saw him play, a good chance even better.

That said, even today, breaking 526 would be more than difficult.
 
i have a question for the folks who say any record attempt is void unless conditions are duplicated - name another sport where conditions are duplicated for records to be broken. There must be a lot since this is obviously a hard and fast rule. I don’t hear people scoffing at Olympic records because conditions weren’t duplicated.
 
Some might say conditions MUST be duplicated. If there was an old man watching Willie that happened to be sliding out beer and pickled egg farts then you better have beer and pickled eggs available for some old codger!
 
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