Breaking violation

[Pangit]

Here in the Philippines, it seems the better a player is (to a point) the more they "cheat" the head-string on the break. Sometimes the Cue ball is nearly a full ball past the head-string. Is that a foul? You call it after the break, he claims it was behind headstring. He said/she said.
As far as I'm concerned it's cheating, and they are fully aware of what they are doing. It get's under my skin.

 

[dareads]

Yes it is a foul. If it is that much of a problem, all I could suggest was calling it before your opponent broke.

 

[manwon]

Here in the Philippines, it seems the better a player is (to a point) the more they "cheat" the head-string on the break. Sometimes the Cue ball is nearly a full ball past the head-string. Is that a foul? You call it after the break, he claims it was behind headstring. He said/she said.
As far as I'm concerned it's cheating, and they are fully aware of what they are doing. It get's under my skin.

It is an easy fix, have you ever been bowling? They use a small light sensor that will trip if you move too far when delivering the ball to the ally. They could do the same thing with a pool table, so if some one moves the ball forward past the foul line it will trip the sensor and a foul is called.

It would be easy to install and no one could dispute they fouled, so long as it was installed correctly.

Outside of that you have to call a foul before the break or have someone watch like a Referee,

JIMO

 

[RBC]

IF you let him break, it's not a foul.

You have to inform him before he breaks to move the ball back. After he breaks, it's assumed the ball was behind the headstring.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Fudge it

IF you let him break, it's not a foul.

You have to inform him before he breaks to move the ball back. After he breaks, it's assumed the ball was behind the headstring.[/QUOTE. When it's your break put the cue about a foot in front of the line and break quick before he reacts, then play dumb. Ahead of the line is ahead of the line, doesn't matter how much. Anyone who thinks a few inches gains speed or power is reaching for something, not sure what.

 

["CaliRed".]

Here in the Philippines, it seems the better a player is (to a point) the more they "cheat" the head-string on the break. Sometimes the Cue ball is nearly a full ball past the head-string. Is that a foul? You call it after the break, he claims it was behind headstring. He said/she said.
As far as I'm concerned it's cheating, and they are fully aware of what they are doing. It get's under my skin.

for the correct way of dealing with this, please buy the TAR SVB - Earl Strickland match on the 10ft'er, when it's released.

Earl will teach you the correct way of dealing with this, even if the person isn't putting it over the line

 

[Bob Jewett]

Here in the Philippines, it seems the better a player is (to a point) the more they "cheat" the head-string on the break. Sometimes the Cue ball is nearly a full ball past the head-string. Is that a foul? You call it after the break, he claims it was behind headstring. He said/she said.
As far as I'm concerned it's cheating, and they are fully aware of what they are doing. It get's under my skin.

Get a video camera and tape the whole match. You might discover other "little tricks" that they also use.

Whether it's a foul or not depends on the rules you're playing by. If it's bar rules, bring larger friends.

If you imagine you're playing by the World Standardized Rules, which none of your opponents has ever seen, then it's a foul to break with the center of the cue ball on or over the line. The referee (you have a referee?) MUST NOT WARN the player that he has placed the cue ball over the line. It is the player's responsibility to place the cue ball correctly and if he is unsure, he should ask the referee.

 

[Bob Jewett]

IF you let him break, it's not a foul.

You have to inform him before he breaks to move the ball back. After he breaks, it's assumed the ball was behind the headstring.

That used to be the rule. The warning is no longer required, and in fact the referee is forbidden from giving advice to the player for this. The referee will determine whether the ball was over the line when struck.

 

[Zerius]

Get a video camera and tape the whole match. You might discover other "little tricks" that they also use.

Whether it's a foul or not depends on the rules you're playing by. If it's bar rules, bring larger friends.

If you imagine you're playing by the World Standardized Rules, which none of your opponents has ever seen, then it's a foul to break with the center of the cue ball on or over the line. The referee (you have a referee?) MUST NOT WARN the player that he has placed the cue ball over the line. It is the player's responsibility to place the cue ball correctly and if he is unsure, he should ask the referee.

Very interesting Bob, had no idea on anything about that.

What do you think should be the procedure at pubs or during league on tables without a clear headstring (or with)?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Very interesting Bob, had no idea on anything about that.

What do you think should be the procedure at pubs or during league on tables without a clear headstring (or with)?

If there is no referee and the sides are composed of bad sports, then there is a problem. It is situations like this that brought the old rule mentioned above in, I would guess -- no warning, no foul. Leagues probably have their own rules. Pubs often have no rules or malleable rules.

I think the best way long-term is to play by the full WSR and allow your opponent to be the referee if none is available. That way you both get to learn something about the game and about each other.

 

[Zerius]

If there is no referee and the sides are composed of bad sports, then there is a problem. It is situations like this that brought the old rule mentioned above in, I would guess -- no warning, no foul. Leagues probably have their own rules. Pubs often have no rules or malleable rules.

I think the best way long-term is to play by the full WSR and allow your opponent to be the referee if none is available. That way you both get to learn something about the game and about each other.

Thanks, is it bad manner to call for ref during a shot where they might scratch via contacting the wrong ball first? If it isn't when is too late to call it? Is it bad manner to call it as they are warmup stroking the shot?

 

[Bob Jewett]

Thanks, is it bad manner to call for ref during a shot where they might scratch via contacting the wrong ball first? If it isn't when is too late to call it? Is it bad manner to call it as they are warmup stroking the shot?

In situations where it is normal to have a third party come over temporarily to watch a potentially contentious shot, it is not usually considered bad manners. However, there are some who will call the ref so frequently and on shots that are not any problem that they make it bad manners.

Some play that if the only two witnesses are the two players in the match and the shooter denies he fouled then there was no foul.

You should use your own judgement as to when it is too late to call for a ref.

 

[rayjay]

With no referee, in league or bar play, just like a close hit, get someone else to watch the placement and call it after the shot.

 

[HawaiianEye]

IF you let him break, it's not a foul.

You have to inform him before he breaks to move the ball back. After he breaks, it's assumed the ball was behind the headstring.

I agree! He/she may get away with it once, but the second time I'd be all over them before they ever hit the next break once the rack was set up. I have NO problem telling people that they "may" be breaking the rules BEFORE it happens...not after the fact. That is assuming you are able to have time to see the infraction. When people are breaking, they usually have the cue ball sitting there for several seconds (at the least) before they ever strike the ball. That is the point that I would "advise" them to look before they started stroking to hit the cue ball.

I have never had the desire to win pool games by cheating, so I can't put myself in the frame of mind of someone who would get upset if someone challenged the placement of the cueball before the break.

I practice breaking all the time and I want the cueball as close to the headstring as possible when I break. That decreases the distance to the headball and ensures that cue ball placement is almost exact in each and every break until I decide that break isn't working. In order to that, I place the cue stick across the headstring diamonds and roll the ball up until it touches the stick. Unless I move the cue ball to the left or the right, the cueball is always the same distance to the headball. Assuming you use the same stroke on each break, the breaks should be somewhat similar and you can see a pattern. If that pattern doesn't work, then you change something...but I NEVER change the distance from the cueball to the headball by moving the cueball further behind the diamonds. Distance along the headstring is the only that that you have complete control over. your stroke, English, ball speed etc fluctuates each time by fractions on each break.

 

[Pangit]

Get a video camera and tape the whole match. You might discover other "little tricks" that they also use.

Whether it's a foul or not depends on the rules you're playing by. If it's bar rules, bring larger friends.

If you imagine you're playing by the World Standardized Rules, which none of your opponents has ever seen, then it's a foul to break with the center of the cue ball on or over the line. The referee (you have a referee?) MUST NOT WARN the player that he has placed the cue ball over the line. It is the player's responsibility to place the cue ball correctly and if he is unsure, he should ask the referee.

A true voice of "reason". Thank you.

 

[The Chinchilla]

I have never read this in a rule book, but I am personally under the impression that if the one ball is sitting anywhere on the spot, all is ok. The spot is a certain size for a certain reason I would think, no??? Or did they pick spot size at random?? I think it is that size to allow for some wiggle room as balls don't always rack good when you put them EXACTLY in the right spot.

Also, if it is in fact a rule that a racker can get a foul called on him, I think that is a very bad rule as it would fascilitate more arguments, very heated ones at that. All that should be taken care of before breaking, that is the only reasonable rule to go by, but hey, this is pool, so we are destined to get the rule wrong i'm sure.

 

[Black-Balled]

Pardon my ignormance...math handicapped here.

Isn't it 50" from spot-spot?
Isnt CB 2.5"?
Therefore a full ball is 5% closer?

ASSuming player breaks on the line from headspot (the max % of 'getting closer')?

Negligible benefit, who is to say closer is better anyway?

 

[Pangit]

Pardon my ignormance...math handicapped here.

Isn't it 50" from spot-spot?
Isnt CB 2.5"?
Therefore a full ball is 5% closer?

ASSuming player breaks on the line from headspot (the max % of 'getting closer')?

Negligible benefit, who is to say closer is better anyway?

A standard CB is about 2.25". I think? JUST like every other ball in the rack. Cue ball's on "coin op" tables are larger, that's why they go through the wicket's and end up at the head of the table. What serious billiards player plays with a larger CB? Smaller one makes sense, more "Hooyah" on the CB.

 

[ridinda9]

What serious billiards player plays with a larger CB?

"Back in the day" , there were plenty of 'mudball specialists' around , who had amazing control of Big Whitey. At the same time , their opponents were at a disadvantage due to their own lack of ability with this ball . Turned the tide of plenty of matches . . . .
Might just be a few of 'em left out there makin' some jingle on bar tables !

 

[jersey jer]

Pardon my ignormance...math handicapped here.

Isn't it 50" from spot-spot?
Isnt CB 2.5"?
Therefore a full ball is 5% closer?

ASSuming player breaks on the line from headspot (the max % of 'getting closer')?

Negligible benefit, who is to say closer is better anyway?

basically what i was thinking
If im breaking anywhere between 20 to 25 mph, and the cueball is only travling a few feet, WTH is being an inch or two closer or further away going to do?
why would anyone even bother to try to breaking from outa the kitchen? even if you break from the side rail the angle isnt changing all that much either.