even if that was the case he didn't do anything to anyone that they didn't try to do to him. someone agreeing to a bet is different than someone not getting what they paid for
can't get a refund [long rant warning!]
- Thread starter saddlebow
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even if that was the case he didn't do anything to anyone that they didn't try to do to him. someone agreeing to a bet is different than someone not getting what they paid for
RBC
Deceased
Sorry, but this is an example of a car dealer who didn't want to refund you your money right away. I worked at many car dealers, in high level management, and I could always cut a check within minutes.
Also, this is not Toyota, this is the dealer. They are not the same!
Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Glad to see this is being worked out....
This seems to be an example where both parties let the communication get out of hand, and it drove this to an unintended and less than amicable outcome. Doug is a good guy and a cuemaker that I wouldn't hesitate to buy a cue from him.....and there are some out there that I can't say this about. I'm sure that Bill is a nice guy, as well, based on comments I've seen here.
There a moral to this story and we all should take note....don't use the money until the buyer is satisfied, and that goes for private sellers of cues here....it's just not good business.
Sean
This seems to be an example where both parties let the communication get out of hand, and it drove this to an unintended and less than amicable outcome. Doug is a good guy and a cuemaker that I wouldn't hesitate to buy a cue from him.....and there are some out there that I can't say this about. I'm sure that Bill is a nice guy, as well, based on comments I've seen here.
There a moral to this story and we all should take note....don't use the money until the buyer is satisfied, and that goes for private sellers of cues here....it's just not good business.
Sean
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I quoted a couple of simple declarative sentences from your original post. I replied with the understanding that the opinions you expressed were consistent with "how you feel."
I simply stated that I would prefer not to do business with a cuemaker who held these opinions. I don't believe that that constitutes "bashing" you.
Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions. I do believe, however, that I'm entitled to express an opinion on a public forum.
I have known Doug for roughly a year now, and I must say that it would be hard to find a better guy. I sincerely hope this doesn't sway anyone's opinion of him as it is his livelyhood.
Doug was absolutely in the wrong having spent the money prior to the customer verifying receipt of the cue and satisfactory inspection of it. I believe Doug being dragged through this will certainly be a learning lesson and he will never do it again. Everyone makes mistakes and I hope people understand that. I am quite certain all of us have things we hope can be forgotten.
As far as the communication issues, both individuals were out of line. I almost always try to say the customer is always right or just don't have them as a customer, but the customer crossed the line first with "STFU". Not to say anything negative about the OP as I would be unhappy also. Doug as a businessman likely should have not responded back rudely since the OP was out a sum of money, but I don't know what I would say if I was told to STFU.
Just my opinions here, but I assure you my opinion of Doug has not swayed because of this thread.
Doug was absolutely in the wrong having spent the money prior to the customer verifying receipt of the cue and satisfactory inspection of it. I believe Doug being dragged through this will certainly be a learning lesson and he will never do it again. Everyone makes mistakes and I hope people understand that. I am quite certain all of us have things we hope can be forgotten.
As far as the communication issues, both individuals were out of line. I almost always try to say the customer is always right or just don't have them as a customer, but the customer crossed the line first with "STFU". Not to say anything negative about the OP as I would be unhappy also. Doug as a businessman likely should have not responded back rudely since the OP was out a sum of money, but I don't know what I would say if I was told to STFU.
Just my opinions here, but I assure you my opinion of Doug has not swayed because of this thread.
what kind of ghetto operation can't offer a refund because their funds are tied up on money spent for a product not delivered? lol
there has been a disturbing pattern of posts here over the last several years where cuemakers are simply not delivering what they promised and stalling on refunds, a true reflection of cuemakers in general imo
It's pretty hard to do if the cuemaker is not a ACA member. I can guarantee they would and do step in on situations like this if one of their members gets out of line. Its one of the advantages in dealing with ACA approved cuemakers. To bad there isn't a casemakers orginazation like the ACA.
Thanks Jack. It would be nice to have the list of ACA members. I'm sure it's available. I should have asked Dan Dishaw when I saw him this week.
P.S. I know at least one case maker that would never have a problem like this. :grin:
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Class dismissed...I think both Doug and Saddlebow handled it well. Doug still has his reputation in tact for stepping up and apologizing and making payment arrangement. Saddlebow accepted the apology like a man and is going to move forward. This ends amicably.
P.S. If I was you saddlebow I would get a cue from Doug because it will probably be the best cue he's ever made!
P.S. If I was you saddlebow I would get a cue from Doug because it will probably be the best cue he's ever made!
and make sure the buyer of the other cue is happy before you send HIS money to SOMEONE ELSE.Just thinking out loud here ...
Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing!
Patrick cues says he may have made a mistake by spending the $$ before the customer could confirm he was satisfied. THEN MAKES VERY CLEAR HIS INTENTION TO DO THE EXACT SAME THING AGAIN!
Once again, a sale is not completed untill payment has been made, item is received, and customer accepts merchendise and expresses confirmation.
Doug,
I am NOT bashing here. It appears you are a good cuemaker with many happy customers and I wil also say it seems that your intentions are sincere. HOWEVER, it also appears that you need to focus on this and find a way to keep from putting yourself in this same situation again and again.
I know that in MOST cases you will prob come out okay, but you are taking this chance EVERY time you roll the dice. I promise you, you will get burned again by this if you continue to spend customer's money before the sale is complete. I understand how it happens, but you also have to understand how things like this will happen too!
Good intentions aside, this kind of thing CAN hurt your rep and your business. I used to have a business and I understand how things can get, but you need to tighten it up or deal with these kind of consequences.
I wish nothing but the best for both parties. I would still gve you the benifit of the doubt ASSUMING it gets resolved quickly and politely. The customer is in no way at fault here, and should be treated with the most respect you can deliver. This is an honest mistake, but it is YOUR mistake. Don't punish your customer.
Just my .02
Jw
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I do appreciate your apology, and do believe you are a man who calls it like you see it. I think someone with a reputation of your magnitude can easily make or break someone's reputation. Many people favor your notions because you are a likable fella and you are simply human, but I think you were out of line to state this only hearing one side of the story:
Patrick's Custom Cues and Doug Patrick's reputation is sinking fast, never to be righted. You sold your reputation for $1,200. Good luck in your next line of work!
If someone in the future reads this, they could get the wrong impression about Doug and his work because of your premature decision to slam him. If you have seen that Doug's intentions were in fact, genuine, and he in fact should NOT seek another line of work, then you should delete that comment and apologize to him publicly in this thread. I'm not sure if you know how much influence you have over many people in the pool world.
What pisses me off, is that people don't realize how much work goes into cue making. It ain't like we got OOMPA LOOMPAS walking around passing wood to each other from tree to cue. Time plays a huge part in the overall process, and patience is definitely one thing a cue maker has!
The overall spoiling of our society by mainstream business such as fast foods, corporate image branding, and the 'instant gratification' factor is not something we should relate to cue making. In fact, it is the opposite. The art of cue making is genuine. It comes from the heart. It takes plenty of time and TLC, and I believe most build cues have these existing qualities in their heart.
Also, it is so easy to destroy someone's reputation and whine all day when in fact, they could've handled things differently. We should do more to look at the big picture and understand how the flow of things work!
Patrick's Custom Cues and Doug Patrick's reputation is sinking fast, never to be righted. You sold your reputation for $1,200. Good luck in your next line of work!
Based on the quick response of Doug Patrick on here and his attempt to correct this unfortunate situation, I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt and apologize publicly to him for the strong tenor of my above remarks.
I realize that sometimes I can be quick to defend someone who appears to be victimized. In this instance I may have been too quick. If Doug does in fact repay Bill in a timely manner as he has promised then it is a done deal. Lesson learned by all parties concerned, including me.
I would advise Doug to read poolpro's post #91 above and digest his words.
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looks like OP got a little madder than needed but that is his right here.
Doug never should have said anything like he did back at a customer. that is wrong. he will likely make it right and that is the mark of a good person.
what i dont like is that the OP seems to get his money back if the next purchase clears. what if it doesnt. then it becomes whenever.
All people doing business need to read this thread and learn from it.
Doug never should have said anything like he did back at a customer. that is wrong. he will likely make it right and that is the mark of a good person.
what i dont like is that the OP seems to get his money back if the next purchase clears. what if it doesnt. then it becomes whenever.
All people doing business need to read this thread and learn from it.
As someone that works in retail, I have to disagree with this statement. Mistakes are made and customers get upset, but that doesn't automatically give them the right to treat the person trying to take care of the problem like crap.
Im not singling out this case, as I think both parties involved got a little heated and said some things they would have probably handled differently. Im more talking of a retail customers mindset.
I do everything I can to reasonably take care of customers in a reasonable amount of time, but sometimes they feel like since a mistake has been made they have a license to do or say what ever they want.
And for the poster that said ANY business always has someone on hand that can cut a check, not at our store.
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OP didnt get his cue sent right away and had to call and find out why. then finds out his money has been spent. anyone is going to get mad and vent at the person who did this.
doesnt mean doug is a bad guy or isnt honest or isnt going to make things good. it just means that when you do business with someone you need to be very careful to uphold your end of the deal.
doesnt mean doug is a bad guy or isnt honest or isnt going to make things good. it just means that when you do business with someone you need to be very careful to uphold your end of the deal.
this post is a clear indicator to stay away from sk cues. when you sell something, accept payment then dont deliver the buyer has every right to expect to get his money back in the same timely manner he paid. so what if completing a cue is such a difficult process? how hard do you it think it might have been for the buyer to earn that money? i hope everything works out btwn patrick cues and the OP. sounds like they are trying. i might do business with patrick cues but never with sk cues.
brian
Jay:
I have already read this post that you are referring too! And I am going to take the advice and use it. I gave myself a couple days with the purchase of the other cue and making the refund to Bill! Jay I appreciate the apology! I just want everyone to know that I made a mistake with purchasing supplies before Bill recieved his cue! This does not mean that I am dishonest! It means I made a mistake!
I want to clear up one more thing here! I called Bill when I found this problem. He did not call me first! He did have to hang up and call me back do to having a stress test at the time I called! This doesnt change the fact that I made a mistake with the money! One in which I have learned from a lot!
I have already read this post that you are referring too! And I am going to take the advice and use it. I gave myself a couple days with the purchase of the other cue and making the refund to Bill! Jay I appreciate the apology! I just want everyone to know that I made a mistake with purchasing supplies before Bill recieved his cue! This does not mean that I am dishonest! It means I made a mistake!
I want to clear up one more thing here! I called Bill when I found this problem. He did not call me first! He did have to hang up and call me back do to having a stress test at the time I called! This doesnt change the fact that I made a mistake with the money! One in which I have learned from a lot!
I know Doug, he is a friend of mine. He made a simple mistake, we just spoke about it-I called him. He didnt sound happy, he is very emabrassed(thats my take on it).
In Law the standard for fraud is intent, Doug had no intent to defraud anyone. He is on short $$$ as we all seem to be these days(myself included) and reinvested in his biz, its not like he bought coke and whores with the $$$. He is going to refund the person he did biz with. I know that for a fact, I will stand behind that with my $$$$.
He wont make the same mistake twice, i know that as well. His passion/biz is cues he loves is and is proud of what he does. We as a group cant destroy his biz for a innocent mistake that totals 25 tanks of gas for your truck/car. He isnt like some other cue makers here who have a pattern of fraud-with intent.
He told me he will have it fixed by the first part of the week, I believe him. he is feeling like shit over this. It aint gonna happen again. So to repet my self lets not harm his biz over this.
sincerly
eric petersen
702-241-8000
In Law the standard for fraud is intent, Doug had no intent to defraud anyone. He is on short $$$ as we all seem to be these days(myself included) and reinvested in his biz, its not like he bought coke and whores with the $$$. He is going to refund the person he did biz with. I know that for a fact, I will stand behind that with my $$$$.
He wont make the same mistake twice, i know that as well. His passion/biz is cues he loves is and is proud of what he does. We as a group cant destroy his biz for a innocent mistake that totals 25 tanks of gas for your truck/car. He isnt like some other cue makers here who have a pattern of fraud-with intent.
He told me he will have it fixed by the first part of the week, I believe him. he is feeling like shit over this. It aint gonna happen again. So to repet my self lets not harm his biz over this.
sincerly
eric petersen
702-241-8000
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