CSI-Mark Griffin First Response

[Kid Dynomite]

Erm, you've been speculating constantly for days. IMO when Mark writes about people on this board speculating and making false assumptions, he is talking about you and 2 or 3 other members. How about you stop responding to these threads, you're doing pool a disservice.

We continue to bump heads cause you have a opposing opinion.

I have yet to speculate and only made thought provoking comments that aided the debate!

You on the other hand are the type of YES man people need to be worried about. So, scared Mark will take his bat and ball and go home!

He needs people that will be honest with him. Not follow him like he is the pied piper!

You still hold your opinion that no "error" existed. Despite Mark saying otherwise. But, wait finally something you don't agree with him on! The yes man better watch it! Mark is reading.

Here comes the flip flop people! Watch!

Kd

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[Kid Dynomite]

God post Mike, to error is human, which we all know first hand, but it's the procedural process one takes to correct or lessen the error is what counts most. It's all about how things end, and less about all the other stuff.

Say hello to your dad for me, thx.

Bill Incardona

Thanks Billy pops says hello and asked about your back and health? Hope all is well!

Mike and Dennis

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

We continue to bump heads cause you have a opposing opinion.

I have yet to speculate and only made thought provoking comments that aided the debate!

You on the other hand are the type of YES man people need to be worried about. So, scared Mark will take his bat and ball and go home!

He needs people that will be honest with him. Not follow him like he is the pied piper!

You still hold your opinion that no "error" existed. Despite Mark saying otherwise. But, wait finally something you don't agree with him on! The yes man better watch it! Mark is reading.

Here comes the flip flop people! Watch!

Kd

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Your post Kid Dynomite is totally right, except Mark & CSI are not the only game in town. Sadly as much a some people dislike the ACS, or APA they are options for those who choose to not be part of BCALP, or CSI.

Granted ACS, or APA could be considered BUSH LEAGUE, but BUSH is better than no League at all.

I also think some people could critique Mark, offer ideas & realistic solutions, and not come on at Mark with criticism. Than maybe Mark would have a more open mind to listen to the critiques.

 

[Jaden]

I don't think that they are free to do whatever they want...

The way I see it Mark & CSI are a private business, and really have ZERO obligation to defend their actions to anyone. It is their Pool, their Party, and they are free to do as they wish.

The Keyboard Commandos who want to take sides in their drama, be they Pro Mark 0r Anti Mark. Are free to do so, but I am sure they will not have much influence over Mark.

Also Mark is under no obligation to answer to anyone for his actions. I totally understand him not want to make replies to ANONYMOUS people who many are unknown totally except by a Forum ID NAME, or Handle.

Mark’s post show he has class, and if you want to express your opinion directly to Mark via phone, letter, or e-mail sign with a real name, and real contact information. I am sure you have a good chance of hearing back from Mark.

But like I said the event in question, where the incident happen was under Mark’s & CSI’s Umbrella. It was their Event, Game, or Party. So they could do as they wished when the incident happened to deal with said incident.

I am sure no matter how Mark handles incidents like this in the future, not everyone will be happy with Mark, but that not a bad thing. But like I said Mark was paying the bills, running the event, doing all the before, and after event leg work. So it was his baby to do with as he choose.

BTW I gave Mark GREEN for his post.

They enter into a contract with the players that agree to play in the tourney; however, when something comes up that is out of the ordinary or not specifically covered in the written or stated rules or contract, it is at their sole discretion as to how to handle it.

It certainly doesn't qualify as doing a disservice to pool IMO...

Jaden

 

[one stroke]

The frenzy is a product of the lack of immediate response. Everyone is so damn impatient and cynical that if a "public" person doesn't issue a response immediately, "they must have something to hide" or they're busy "coming up with their story." The idea that people step back and consider things before speaking is anathema these days.

I know it's foolish to compare pool with any professional league so I guess it's foolish to expect them to act in the professional manner that they would ,, so yes I guess some are expecting to much


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[justadub]

I know it's foolish to compare pool with any professional league so I guess it's foolish to expect them to act in the professional manner that they would ,, so yes I guess some are expecting to much


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Mark has been very professional in this, like he always has.

He made a post, informing the members of a pool forum, that stuff happened, and that a formal statement would be made after the event was over. A HUGE amateur pool event, that this pro event was sandwiched into.

Just because he didn't come running to a pool forum to defend himself as quickly as some feel entitled to expect doesn't diminish his proffesionalism one bit.

And as he always says, you can call him anytime...

 

[The Saw]

Uncle Watchez is the teacher bro, recognize.

I concur, he's good at keeping the trolls busy.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

idea

They enter into a contract with the players that agree to play in the tourney; however, when something comes up that is out of the ordinary or not specifically covered in the written or stated rules or contract, it is at their sole discretion as to how to handle it.

It certainly doesn't qualify as doing a disservice to pool IMO...

Jaden

Yes in the circumstances you discribe a discretionary decision must be made, and in some cases all parties effected by the decision are not happy.

But if the decision was made as fair as possible, with no preduice toward either party. The person making the decision is IMHO only bound by being fair to all parties, (like a court judge) and if they were fair. Then they did the right thing under the circumstances.

One of my favorite saying is some people will never be happy, even if it is December 25h, and some guy in a RED SUIT, and WHITE BEARD is passing out FREE GIFTS.

Sooner or later someone is going to open their free gift, and find a package of Hershey Kisses. They will cry they are disappointed because they like Mars Bars better. :angry:

 

[StuartTKelley]

I think Mark mentioned that there "was" an error, and did not go into what "it" was. You may find that what you think "it" was is different than what Mark if referring to.

I'm just amazed at how many people jump to so many conclusions and cast such crazy theory as though it is fact. Especially when Mark, in pretty much every post he's made in the last several years, asks people to call him. He welcomes anyone to call and ask if they have something they don't understand. All they have to do is ask and he will tell them. I spoke to Mark at the event, so I know what his position is on the things I asked about.

But instead of anyone reaching out to Mark with their questions, they come on here and spread speculation. It turns into a feeding frenzy all based on conjecture and speculation.


I know Mark and I know he doesn't fit all the wild and crazy accusations that people have made.


Royce

Thank you Royce. You and Mark are both class acts indeed.

 

[one stroke]

Mark has been very professional in this, like he always has.

He made a post, informing the members of a pool forum, that stuff happened, and that a formal statement would be made after the event was over. A HUGE amateur pool event, that this pro event was sandwiched into.

Just because he didn't come running to a pool forum to defend himself as quickly as some feel entitled to expect doesn't diminish his proffesionalism one bit.

And as he always says, you can call him anytime...

That message came third party ,, not even ringside had any clue what was going on


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[Poolplaya9]

The frenzy is a product of the lack of immediate response. Everyone is so damn impatient and cynical that if a "public" person doesn't issue a response immediately, "they must have something to hide" or they're busy "coming up with their story." The idea that people step back and consider things before speaking is anathema these days.

In all fairness it could also be easily argued that in the time it took for him to type this lengthy post explaining how he has been too busy to respond and how he will at some point give his response and that people should be patient in waiting for that response, well he could have just used that time to just give his response instead.

Plus he indicated that he has been reading the many threads on the topic, which presumably took up a fair bit of time that also could have instead been used to just issue his response. I'm not saying what he should have done or should do or that there is not a good reason for waiting, only that it is pretty clear to me that he could have responded already had he wanted to and lack of time doesn't appear to be the real issue.

Im sure no rule was originally written because most people dont quit in the middle of a major tournament when they are doing well, especially in a different format that isnt double or single elimination from the start. Double or Single elimination, its not hard or controversial in the handling of it. Ralf just happened to quit at the most awkward time in this format.

Its just something that doesnt happen and therefore not forseen.

The possibility that someone may not be able to continue in the tournament at some point is absolutely something that can and should have been foreseen and anticipated and a plan should have been in place and made known publicly prior to the start of the event. There are any number of reasons a player may not be able to play a match or continue in the tournament. They could get very ill, have a family emergency, get a bad case of diarrhea, get in a car accident, oversleep, car breaks down, get caught in traffic, get angry and quit, etc, etc, etc.

No doubt about it, they dropped the ball on not having a plan in place, before the tournament started, for what to do in the event that a player will have to miss a particular match or drop out of the tournament. They are human and mistakes happen and I feel certain they will own up to this one and resolve that how such an occurrence is to be handled in the future will always be made known prior to the start of an event.

The only "error" that comes to mind is paying Ralf. He bails on me he does not get a red cent. "Corrective Measures" might include not extending another invite to Souquet to a CSI event.

Lou Figueroa
but that's just me

I agree in that I think the error he is referring to has to do with Ralf's payment. I don't think it is that he got paid though, I think it is the fact that he [according to the "word on the street"] apparently got paid third place monies. There was a serious inconsistency between paying Ralf third, but then also allowing someone else to then take Ralf's place and ultimately have someone else again take third place. If someone else was to replace Ralf, he should have only been paid what he would have earned had he not won his group. Paying him third place is only consistent with a bye being issued in his place after he forfeits and nobody else from the group being moved up to take his place.

Also, it has been debated on here before, but I do not believe that a promoter has the legal standing to withhold all payment in the event that a player withdraws from an event unless that is something that was stipulated to the players prior to the start of the event. The player is entitled to whatever the prize monies are for whatever place they are in at the point where they withdraw.

 

[justadub]

That message came third party ,, not even ringside had any clue what was going on


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Are you insuinating that someone else posts under Marks account? Because I seem to recall reading it, from his own posting, in one of the 84 threads on this subject. I'm on my phone, so copying and pasting ain't gonna happen.

 

[KSI]

Keep doing what you're doing Mark!!!! I appreciate everything you do for pool. Im sorry you have to deal with all these people who seem to be trying to ruin that last bit of chance we have to bring pool back to life. I hope you know that you are supported by many and these "haters" are just a small group of people who like to hide behind their computer trying to destroy others.

KSI aka Kelly Isaac

I realize many would have liked an earlier response to the 'situation' - however we had a very large tournament to run. Today, our office is 'almost' up and running again - I personally had over 700 emails and a huge stack of mail.

The plan is:

A written press release will be submitted (hopefully by tomorrow) explaining the conditions of the invitational - what occurred with the withdrawal of Ralf Souquet - and the reasoning behind the course of action we took. We will be reporting facts – not opinions.

In addition, we will be the guests on the American Billiard Radio (Thursday 9 PM Central Time) broadcast for this week. At that time, we will address some of the misinformation (and assumptions) that are being spread on the multitude of threads on this topic.

I might add that in some ways, I am glad that we did not spend our limited resources on addressing some of the comments made. To be honest, this extra time allowed several posters to remove all doubt of their intentions. I am a very open and patient person. I feel I go above and beyond to have my actions transparent. No one should be subjected to the personal assaults that some of the posters have spewed on this topic. Because you disagree with our decision, you try to create the impression of wrong doing. It is people and thoughts like yours that hurt our industry more than anything else. Can we disagree? Absolutely! Do I expect to be treated with respect? Absolutely! It is quite apparent several people cannot wrap their head around differing opinions.


Also, please DO NOT think that my silence on this topic has been a sign of weakness or ‘concocting a story’ – it had to do with finishing up a very large event. I stated it would be a couple of days – and guess what – I actually did what I said I would do.!!!!

Hindsight can be 20/20. We made a decision. We will explain why we made the decision. We stand by the decision. In the process, we did make an error and corrective measures are in motion. We will own up to that – but I don’t expect it to make any difference to the haters. It is beyond my comprehension to understand what drives these people. Do we make mistakes – yes. I guess we should do nothing and the possibility of future mistakes would be eliminated.

For those that care (and I know there are many), CSI is planning to continue this (or a very similar) format. We now have a precedent in place if this type of unprofessional behavior occurs again. I want everyone to know – that although I do try to appease pool fans and players – I also realize that there are some that are miserable in their lives and just want me to be miserable too. Ain’t gonna happen!! The only thing that is going to happen is that I am going to call out the critics and engage them in a discussion.

Please be patient and civil as this process unfolds.

As usual, if you have anything you want to say, I am easy to find. If you want to discuss this further, call me. I will not talk with aliases or anonymous people.

Mark Griffin
702-719-7665
markg@playcsipool.com

 

[BRussell]

Are you insuinating that someone else posts under Marks account? Because I seem to recall reading it, from his own posting, in one of the 84 threads on this subject. I'm on my phone, so copying and pasting ain't gonna happen.

You are right.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4823529&postcount=20

 

[krupa]

I know it's foolish to compare pool with any professional league so I guess it's foolish to expect them to act in the professional manner that they would ,, so yes I guess some are expecting to much


1

Does Mark have the same size staff as, say, the Commissioner of MLB or NFL?

In all fairness it could also be easily argued that in the time it took for him to type this lengthy post explaining how he has been too busy to respond and how he will at some point give his response and that people should be patient in waiting for that response, well he could have just used that time to just give his response instead.

I wouldn't argue with that. I was mostly speaking about the people in all the other threads asking why Mark hasn't responded yet.

Plus he indicated that he has been reading the many threads on the topic, which presumably took up a fair bit of time that also could have instead been used to just issue his response. I'm not saying what he should have done or should do or that there is not a good reason for waiting, only that it is pretty clear to me that he could have responded already had he wanted to and lack of time doesn't appear to be the real issue.

In my opinion, quick reply to try to quiet the rumblings could -- potentially -- create more confusion than it clears up. It is very difficult to write clearly, concisely and without ambiguity AND do it quickly. I suspect he read the threads like I did... scanning over them to get the gist and not really bothering to get too deep into any of them.

For all the hundreds of posts, there were really only a couple ideas to glean anyway.
* some people felt that SVB was eliminated and shouldn't be brought back.
* others asserted that SVB was second in the round-robin and therefore should have been brought back in

Then there were opinions about Souquet and everything else was rhetoric, vitriol, or repetition.

 

[John Novak]

I realize many would have liked an earlier response to the 'situation' - however we had a very large tournament to run. Today, our office is 'almost' up and running again - I personally had over 700 emails and a huge stack of mail.

The plan is:

A written press release will be submitted (hopefully by tomorrow) explaining the conditions of the invitational - what occurred with the withdrawal of Ralf Souquet - and the reasoning behind the course of action we took. We will be reporting facts – not opinions.

In addition, we will be the guests on the American Billiard Radio (Thursday 9 PM Central Time) broadcast for this week. At that time, we will address some of the misinformation (and assumptions) that are being spread on the multitude of threads on this topic.

I might add that in some ways, I am glad that we did not spend our limited resources on addressing some of the comments made. To be honest, this extra time allowed several posters to remove all doubt of their intentions. I am a very open and patient person. I feel I go above and beyond to have my actions transparent. No one should be subjected to the personal assaults that some of the posters have spewed on this topic. Because you disagree with our decision, you try to create the impression of wrong doing. It is people and thoughts like yours that hurt our industry more than anything else. Can we disagree? Absolutely! Do I expect to be treated with respect? Absolutely! It is quite apparent several people cannot wrap their head around differing opinions.


Also, please DO NOT think that my silence on this topic has been a sign of weakness or ‘concocting a story’ – it had to do with finishing up a very large event. I stated it would be a couple of days – and guess what – I actually did what I said I would do.!!!!

Hindsight can be 20/20. We made a decision. We will explain why we made the decision. We stand by the decision. In the process, we did make an error and corrective measures are in motion. We will own up to that – but I don’t expect it to make any difference to the haters. It is beyond my comprehension to understand what drives these people. Do we make mistakes – yes. I guess we should do nothing and the possibility of future mistakes would be eliminated.

For those that care (and I know there are many), CSI is planning to continue this (or a very similar) format. We now have a precedent in place if this type of unprofessional behavior occurs again. I want everyone to know – that although I do try to appease pool fans and players – I also realize that there are some that are miserable in their lives and just want me to be miserable too. Ain’t gonna happen!! The only thing that is going to happen is that I am going to call out the critics and engage them in a discussion.

Please be patient and civil as this process unfolds.

As usual, if you have anything you want to say, I am easy to find. If you want to discuss this further, call me. I will not talk with aliases or anonymous people.

Mark Griffin
702-719-7665
markg@playcsipool.com

Mark

Well said. Its a shame how people couldnt give you the proper time to take care of the task at hand and wait for an explanation . People have the Right To Remain SIlent in the USA......Its a shame they dont have the Ability to. It was like Gang mentality in here at times....... Im suprised that those who chose to result to crying "FOUL" can actually find their way home at night without a bread crumb trail...
In the future it would be nice to see people using their heads instead of just shooting their mouths off without reason......Agree to disagree.......

Rock on Mark

 

[ShootingArts]

In all fairness it could also be easily argued that in the time it took for him to type this lengthy post explaining how he has been too busy to respond and how he will at some point give his response and that people should be patient in waiting for that response, well he could have just used that time to just give his response instead.

Plus he indicated that he has been reading the many threads on the topic, which presumably took up a fair bit of time that also could have instead been used to just issue his response. I'm not saying what he should have done or should do or that there is not a good reason for waiting, only that it is pretty clear to me that he could have responded already had he wanted to and lack of time doesn't appear to be the real issue.



The possibility that someone may not be able to continue in the tournament at some point is absolutely something that can and should have been foreseen and anticipated and a plan should have been in place and made known publicly prior to the start of the event. There are any number of reasons a player may not be able to play a match or continue in the tournament. They could get very ill, have a family emergency, get a bad case of diarrhea, get in a car accident, oversleep, car breaks down, get caught in traffic, get angry and quit, etc, etc, etc.

No doubt about it, they dropped the ball on not having a plan in place, before the tournament started, for what to do in the event that a player will have to miss a particular match or drop out of the tournament. They are human and mistakes happen and I feel certain they will own up to this one and resolve that how such an occurrence is to be handled in the future will always be made known prior to the start of an event.



I agree in that I think the error he is referring to has to do with Ralf's payment. I don't think it is that he got paid though, I think it is the fact that he [according to the "word on the street"] apparently got paid third place monies. There was a serious inconsistency between paying Ralf third, but then also allowing someone else to then take Ralf's place and ultimately have someone else again take third place. If someone else was to replace Ralf, he should have only been paid what he would have earned had he not won his group. Paying him third place is only consistent with a bye being issued in his place after he forfeits and nobody else from the group being moved up to take his place.

Also, it has been debated on here before, but I do not believe that a promoter has the legal standing to withhold all payment in the event that a player withdraws from an event unless that is something that was stipulated to the players prior to the start of the event. The player is entitled to whatever the prize monies are for whatever place they are in at the point where they withdraw.

You do a good job hitting what I see as the real issues. There should have been a plan in place. Hindsight is 20/20 but they seem to have overlooked how things would be handled if someone withdrew at various points in the tournament. I agree that when Ralf quit he should have been paid for second place in the round robin. He essentially forfeited a match he had already won. I did almost the same thing in a small tournament many years ago when my grandmother passed away. Five balls away from an easy run out to win the tournament when I got the news, I ran two or three more and forfeited with a few tap-ins left to win. Wasn't until a long time later that I remembered I didn't get paid for first or second.

About taking time to reply, it takes a lot of time to craft an official response. Being human he has to be tempted to respond harshly to some things that he doesn't need to address. Being a professional I suspect his official response will address the real issues and ignore the rest. In the future I think CSI would be well advised to have someone designated to deal with the fires on forums and such who isn't majorly involved in putting on the events. Much of the commotion could have been avoided with a few simple posts early on.

Celtic said that the brackets didn't indicate what was going on until after the first semi was played. That could have been a simple oversight or it could have been some confusion on the part of CSI. The brackets should have shown Shane playing much sooner, any confusion Ko had would have been addressed and he would have had more time to regroup if needed. With the usual 20/20 hindsight if Ko was only made aware he was playing a semi at the last minute a fifteen or thirty minute match delay for a practice session would have been a good idea. Easy to see these things days later!

Moving the person up from the round robin who Ralf forfeited to is easily seen as the right decision if it is viewed that way. Moving up the person with the best overall score that didn't win a round robin is another viable option, either one works if documented in advance. Ties would be settled with a sudden death type playoff that would be over quickly. Not that unusual to have a horse or car unable to continue to the next stage of an event and in all cases the spot was filled whether it was a continuous event or a series of races so the thing I would think was least reasonable would have been a by in the semi final. However, if that was the rule put in place in advance I would have no issue with that, or no valid objection!

I have competed under rules I and the other competitors heartily disliked. Made for a lot of pissing and moaning but I never complained to the people running the events when the rules bit me in the butt, I knew them in advance. I did make my objections known in the proper format, either competitor's meetings or meetings held during the off season.

I'm curious to hear Mark's explanation as to what happened and why. It isn't something I think I am owed or that he needs to do. I'm curious about a lot of things that I am not owed an explanation for!

Hu

 

[TimKrazyMon]

Great post, Mark! IMHO, you made the best possible decision under the circumstances. Hopefully next year, we can escape any major issues.

In regards to all the forum hoopla, it's like Budweiser said in a commercial once, "Americans love drama!".

 

[bfdlad]

Well as Mark G stated in his post, I will be interviewing him and Ozzy today for American Billiard Radio and my section of the show. I had a brief chat with Mark G yesterday and based on that I think there are going to be a lot more information given and CSI's side of things. I also think they will be correcting some of the posters from all of these threads that have been popping up. also know that they will be addressing most if not all of the question people have had.

Its no secret that I have been friends with Mark G for a number of years and that I support CSI an what they do. However, I want to make it clear that this interview is not going to be biased on my part but I will be respectful. I am in the same boat as everyone else on this, I was not there and I am simply looking for answers as to what went on and get it from CSI and not any other second hand sources. After the interview we will all be able to look at the information given. I imagine some of the information will be different to what you thought and maybe your opinion will change one way or another. 9pm CST on americanbilliardradio.com

 

[Mark Griffin]

One Stroke,

I'm not real sure what your problem is. You are so full of hatred that you are making a fool of yourself. I realize you had a 'beef' with Ozzy on his tour on the east coast. And its seems that you only know how to complain.

The facts will be discussed on the ABR program tonight - and through some press release and other methods. But I don't think you will ever just agree to disagree. We had a decision to make. I am real sorry it is not the same decision you would have made. But we feel it was the right decision and we will stick by it.

What you need to do is go do your own event. Then you can do what you want to do. I know that CSI and Mark Griffin do what we feel is right for the game. And we put our money where our mouth is.

You only put your mouth where your mouth is.

You can fix this by picking up the phone and calling me. If you have a question, I will answer it. You can start acting like an adult if you want to be treated like one.

I am probably wasting my time event trying to reach out to you - but that is how I am. Sometimes your biggest critic can become your biggest ally.

BTW - I did not have one email disagreeing with our decision - and had several that said we did the right thing - and many that said thank you for the event. I feel confident that the majority agree with our decision - but what is important is that the decision was made for the betterment of the game - and it was.

You were told it would take a few days or a week to respond but you continually harp on our 'delayed' response. Why don't you come out here and do 2% of what we do. You wont have time to respond to 100 posts on AZ Billiards either.

You say our admission of an error lacks substance. Do you even know what our 'error' was? Why don't you just be patient and quit acting like a 6 year old?

Respectfully,


Mark Griffin
702-719-7665
Markg@playcsipool.com

The 20 people ? Maybe you should trade your watchez in for calculators the first poll that excluded (how it was handled ) showed 47% in disagreement ,, and Mark had over 700 emails ,, which I suspect where not all telling him how great the event was

The fact that it took so long to offer a response only let things fester no damage control was taken so of course on a open discussion forum your going to get people expressing their views ,, just because you don't like how it was handled doesn't make you a hater ,
I don't like many things my kids do , I don't hate them

His response and admitted mistakes still lacks in substance but at least it's something
The event all in all was a great success aside from a few glitches

I'm assuming watchez is your real name since you would never hide behind the screen name


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