CTE aiming.

cookie man said:
You want me to say I look at the pocket, I do, so what. I still pivot to center of CB and there is no tweaking allowed. You pivot to center CB, if you tweak after that, you miss the shot.
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But the point Creedo is trying to make is that if you need to cut a ball 10 degrees vs. 15 degrees vs. 20 degrees, and assuming the CB and OB are the same distance apart for all three shots (i.e., the only thing different is where the pocket is), then you need to do something different with each shot ... you obviously can't pocket all three shots with the exact same alignment and the exact same pivot. It seems like the key, based on what I've read, heard, and tried, is to create a different "effective pivot length" for each shot. But this will obviously require some "feel" based on the amount of cut you need for a particular shot. FYI, if you or others are not sure what I mean, I've recently tried to make this more clear on my CTE FAQ page.

Regards,
Dave
 
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When you aim from the center of the CB you have 2 edges to aim at on the OB, then you have 2 directions to offset 1/2 ball. That is 4 possible combination's before the pivot. 3 of them will look wrong. 1 will guide the OB to the pocket if your initial line-up and pivot were correct.
 
CTE aiming

So lets say youre a CTE guy and you do the thing you do and you make your pivot and now youre on target. What in the world do you do if you have use English and stroke the ball?

I just cant imagine it being any simpler than knowing the object ball contact point and aiming line and then making a simple thick or thin adjustment from what you know the cue ball is going to do.

I know you CTE guys cant possibly be just Center Ball players.

So is there a pivot and now there is an allowance?
 
Elephant Man said:
When you aim from the center of the CB you have 2 edges to aim at on the OB, then you have 2 directions to offset 1/2 ball. That is 4 possible combination's before the pivot. 3 of them will look wrong. 1 will guide the OB to the pocket if your initial line-up and pivot were correct.
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The two edges that you address are one on the left and one on the right.

You say "offset" which to me is moving the cue laterally and parallel with/ from the CTEL. You go on to say that you offset 1/2 ball which is different than others who have said offset on tip diameter or 1 1/2 tip diameter.

You are closer to giving a cogent criteria to offset the cue before the pivot - kudos. The one tip offset is a one tip fits all - which I reject for it doesn't address the OB being further away or the 40 degree versis the 80 degree cut being accomplished with one tip offset.

The kudos is because as the OB moves further away, it gets smaller. When you start at CTEL and offset to center of OB from the edge - 1/2 OB, the distance that you offset is shorter for a long shot than for a close shot - because the OB appears smaller for the longer shot.

This finally addresses a method that takes into account the OB getting smaller as it is moved further away from the CB and larger when it is moved closer.

Now please tell me how to create the angle that cuts the OB 40 degrees and the different one that cuts the OB 80 degrees snice you only have one offset of 1/2 OB - or are you going to say it cuts all of the different angles in?

Thanks.
 
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cookie: what dr. dave said.

And I think dave has figured out the secret variable that lets you account for the changed pocket position. The thing is, is estimating/feeling that REALLY easier than visualizing a pinpoint on the object ball? I think no.

I could be wrong... the thing is, you ask "have you ever hit a ball with CTE" ...well, no, because nobody's telling me the shooting process clearly. Don't tell me it's all out there and easy and clear for anyone who wants to learn. There are 500+ posts in this thread. Lots of people want to figure it out. Maybe one has. If you wanna PM me with the step by step process and maybe answer a question or two, I'll be glad to give CTE a fair shake. Though I honestly feel like I'd just be punishing myself to attempt it again (I've spent hours trying with the little I know).
 
dr_dave said:
But the point Creedo is trying to make is that if you need to cut a ball 10 degrees vs. 15 degrees vs. 20 degrees, and assuming the CB and OB are the same distance apart for all three shots (i.e., the only thing different is where the pocket is), then you need to do something different with each shot ... you obviously can't pocket all three shots with the exact same alignment and the exact same pivot. It seems like the key, based on what I've read, heard, and tried, is to create a different "effective pivot length" for each shot. But this will obviously require some "feel" based on the amount of cut you need for a particular shot. FYI, if you or others are not sure what I mean, I've recently tried to make this more clear on my CTE FAQ page.

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

NO FEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You always do everything the same. Stop making us repeat. READ spideys blog. If you can't do it after reading that, give up. DAM the ball in the hole or whatever you think you have to do. JUST trying to make it clear right here. TRY IT OR FORGET IT. Stop reading and saying it can't work. It does work. TRY IT!!!!!!!!!
 
CreeDo said:
cookie: what dr. dave said.

And I think dave has figured out the secret variable that lets you account for the changed pocket position. The thing is, is estimating/feeling that REALLY easier than visualizing a pinpoint on the object ball? I think no.

I could be wrong... the thing is, you ask "have you ever hit a ball with CTE" ...well, no, because nobody's telling me the shooting process clearly. Don't tell me it's all out there and easy and clear for anyone who wants to learn. There are 500+ posts in this thread. Lots of people want to figure it out. Maybe one has. If you wanna PM me with the step by step process and maybe answer a question or two, I'll be glad to give CTE a fair shake. Though I honestly feel like I'd just be punishing myself to attempt it again (I've spent hours trying with the little I know).
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Read spideys blog. Only use his information. Nothing else.
 
cte

Ok I'll give it shot someone give a link to Spideys Blog--Id like to read it for myself.
 
cookie man said:
dr_dave said:
But the point Creedo is trying to make is that if you need to cut a ball 10 degrees vs. 15 degrees vs. 20 degrees, and assuming the CB and OB are the same distance apart for all three shots (i.e., the only thing different is where the pocket is), then you need to do something different with each shot ... you obviously can't pocket all three shots with the exact same alignment and the exact same pivot. It seems like the key, based on what I've read, heard, and tried, is to create a different "effective pivot length" for each shot. But this will obviously require some "feel" based on the amount of cut you need for a particular shot. FYI, if you or others are not sure what I mean, I've recently tried to make this more clear on my CTE FAQ page.
Click to expand...
NO FEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You always do everything the same. Stop making us repeat. READ spideys blog. If you can't do it after reading that, give up. DAM the ball in the hole or whatever you think you have to do. JUST trying to make it clear right here. TRY IT OR FORGET IT. Stop reading and saying it can't work. It does work. TRY IT!!!!!!!!!
Click to expand...
I know CTE can work. Even I can make it work; although, I'm not as consistent with it as I am with other methods. (Now, out of fairness, I haven't practiced CTE as long as I've practiced other methods).

However, CTE does not work for the three shots I described without varying the "effective pivot length" (what Spidey calls the "pivot arc"). Here's a quote from Spidey's blog:

Spidey's blog said:
shot circle is the exact arc for your pivot. If you think of each shot in pool as being a circle – with your bridge being the center of the circle and the OB being the edge of the circle – you must pivot along the arc of that circle in order for your shot to go.
Spidey_CTEShotCircle.jpg
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He is implying that the "pivot arc radius" is the same for all shots where the CB is the same distance from the OB. However, if three different shots have the exact same distance between the CB and OB, but the required amount of cut for each is 10 degrees, 15 degrees, and 20 degrees, all three shots cannot be made with the same "thick-hit" alignment and the exact same "pivot arc" (unless the OB is very close to the pocket and/or the pocket is very large). If you can pocket all three shots with the exact same initial alignment, then you are varying the "pivot arc," even if you don't think you are. Please don't take this as disrespectful ... that is certainly not me intent. I hope you realize I'm just trying to help improve the understanding of CTE. I think if there were better understanding, even more people might be able to use it effectively.

Regards,
Dave

PS: If people want more info on what the "effective pivot length" is, see the illustrations and explanations on my recently-revised CTE page.
 
dr_dave said:
I know CTE can work. Even I can make it work; although, I'm not as consistent with it as I am with other methods. (Now, out of fairness, I haven't practiced CTE as long as I've practiced other methods).

However, CTE does not work for the three shots I described without varying the "effective pivot length" (what Spidey calls the "pivot arc"). Here's a quote from Spidey's blog:



He is implying that the "pivot arc radius" is the same for all shots where the CB is the same distance from the OB. However, if three different shots have the exact same distance between the CB and OB, but the required amount of cut for each is 10 degrees, 15 degrees, and 20 degrees, all three shots cannot be made with the same "thick-hit" alignment and the exact same "pivot arc" (unless the OB is very close to the pocket and/or the pocket is very large). If you can pocket all three shots with the exact same initial alignment, then you are varying the "pivot arc," even if you don't think you are. Please don't take this as disrespectful ... that is certainly not me intent. I hope you realize I'm just trying to help improve the understanding of CTE. I think if there were better understanding, even more people might be able to use it effectively.

Regards,
Dave

PS: If people want more info on what the "effective pivot length" is, see the illustrations and explanations on my recently-revised CTE page.
Click to expand...

Post your 3 shots I'll see if I can clear it up. Will not be till tomorrow, going to extreme rules wrestling now.
 
dr_dave said:
However, CTE does not work for the three shots I described without varying the "effective pivot length" (what Spidey calls the "pivot arc").
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Dr D, I practiced your 3 shots, 10 times before I wrote this post. I was about 50% successful and 100% close. That was my own fault and not the math's fault. Since the CB and OB are the same distance in all 3 shots, the pivot point is the same for all 3 shots. On my 8' table it was at about 5". You aim at the same spot on the OB for every shot, but that spot moves for every shot. Spideys blog talks about this, infinite edges, 6 o'clock, 12o'clock, 11 o'clock, 1 o'clock and in the 4 sequence drawings ending in the close up. That info with about a 5" pivot point will make your 3 shots.
 
Dr. Dave -- your new thread focuses nicely on the mysterious element(s) of CTE aiming; good idea.

It has been mentioned that Patrick Johnson's voice has been sorely missed of late in these discussions. It occurred to me today that there is another AZBer who was very interested in the CTE topic back in 2008 and has not been posting at all lately -- bluepepper (Jeff). I miss his comments.
 
dr_dave said:
I know CTE can work. Even I can make it work; although, I'm not as consistent with it as I am with other methods. (Now, out of fairness, I haven't practiced CTE as long as I've practiced other methods).

However, CTE does not work for the three shots I described without varying the "effective pivot length" (what Spidey calls the "pivot arc"). Here's a quote from Spidey's blog:



He is implying that the "pivot arc radius" is the same for all shots where the CB is the same distance from the OB. However, if three different shots have the exact same distance between the CB and OB, but the required amount of cut for each is 10 degrees, 15 degrees, and 20 degrees, all three shots cannot be made with the same "thick-hit" alignment and the exact same "pivot arc" (unless the OB is very close to the pocket and/or the pocket is very large). If you can pocket all three shots with the exact same initial alignment, then you are varying the "pivot arc," even if you don't think you are. Please don't take this as disrespectful ... that is certainly not me intent. I hope you realize I'm just trying to help improve the understanding of CTE. I think if there were better understanding, even more people might be able to use it effectively.

Regards,
Dave

PS: If people want more info on what the "effective pivot length" is, see the illustrations and explanations on my recently-revised CTE page.
Click to expand...

you guys make it out to be such a tuff game.
you need to get out and play a lot .
take a few lessons from good players where you live.
that will help you get better for sure .
 
real bartram said:
you guys make it out to be such a tuff game.
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For the record, I don't use CTE when I play (although, I have tried it over the years during practice). I use DAM. I'm just discussing CTE to help provide a better understanding of what CTE actually is.

Regards,
Dave
 
real bartram said:
you guys make it out to be such a tuff game.
you need to get out and play a lot .
take a few lessons from good players where you live.
that will help you get better for sure .
Click to expand...

Now that's what I'M talking about! CTE is touted as a simple way to consistently pocket balls, and yet it seems to have nothing but complicated explanations for the way it is supposed to work.

I'm not trying to disprove CTE; I'm already convinced that it works. I'm just wanting to learn more about it so I can see if I am able to come up with an easier way to explain it. That's just me, I'm MR. EASY. And NO, I'm not going to pay anybody to learn the real "secrets" in CTE, either, because I'm also MR. CHEAP (like some others in these forums)! :D

But seriously, I'll just continue sifting through all this information until I discover what it is I am looking for. That way, I won't have to adhere to any promises to not share my discovery with others on the internet.

Roger
 
Have you checked out the new CTE thread or my revised CTE document? I think there is a lot of insight to be gained there.

Regards,
Dave

Roger Long said:
Now that's what I'M talking about! CTE is touted as a simple way to consistently pocket balls, and yet it seems to have nothing but complicated explanations for the way it is supposed to work.

I'm not trying to disprove CTE; I'm already convinced that it works. I'm just wanting to learn more about it so I can see if I am able to come up with an easier way to explain it. That's just me, I'm MR. EASY. And NO, I'm not going to pay anybody to learn the real "secrets" in CTE, either, because I'm also MR. CHEAP (like some others in these forums)! :D

But seriously, I'll just continue sifting through all this information until I discover what it is I am looking for. That way, I won't have to adhere to any promises to not share my discovery with others on the internet.

Roger
Click to expand...
 
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