Cue Pricing

[bdcues]

Not knocking anyone, but $60/hr? That's pretty amazing for a non union job that does not need college degree. The beauty of America is the ability to succeed if you try. My father retired from teaching elementary school children for 20 years and didn't make that. Im pretty sure a lathe is more desirable, to most, than 30 kids for 8 hours a day attempting to impart knowledge and respect, generally without the proper support system, ie parents and community. Hats off to those for their success.

It would be great if all you needed to do this work was one lathe. A few thousand bucks and you are on your way to stardom. Too bad that is not how it works. Most cue makers are lucky to pay off the investment in machinery and supplies it takes just to make cues. If you figure in all the actual time involved, especially in custom cues with the design specs called out by the customer, many cues should cost more than their original sales price but those things already mentioned above - location, experience, name recognition, etc make it impossible at times to reach those prices.

So, should a cue maker have an investment of $40-50,000.00 and charge $20.00 per hour for his work? As for the college degree, I would imagine there are quite a number of cue makers that have one or more degrees, and/or have journeyman level experience in machining, mechanics, design and other related fields that help him make a quality product.

As for the comments by Chopdoc... Well said, I am glad that the insurance companies and the Federal Government have not stuck their noses in cue makers business.

 

[Lexicologist71]

Thanks everyone for your input. I didn't realize I'd get so much feedback.

 

[Quesports]

$60/hr is shop time, not my wage. It is no different than being an auto mechanic. It isn't just labor but overhead as well.

Yep there is taxes, insurance, rent, equipment upkeep, maintenance time just all sorts of expenses that have to be considered.. Knowing how to do the work is one thing knowing how much to charge in order to stay in business is another altogether.

 

[cuejo]

I do mostly repairs, build jump cues only.
I sell jumpers starting at 200.00
I don't know how anyone can build a complete cue for that price and make any money on it.
Granted, I do cues as a hobby, that makes me some money.

If I can't turn wood into profit I will just stop doing it.
I would rather my lathes only do my own tips and cleanings than lose money doing favors.

I have found that most people are willing to pay for quality, and if I found out that there was someone out there charging more money for the same job, I'll have to raise my rates.... Whoever charges more has to be better right?
I've noticed that in a professional business, not retail......
The higher your rate is, the more unfounded respect is granted.
People assume that the person charging more must be better.
To a certain extent, I agree

I will charge whatever the market will bear.
I also think that you should try to never sell yourself short either.
If your product doesn't stand up to comparable work, keep it in the shop until you can turn out better work.
I would love to have a couple escapees back in my possession!
Just my feelings.

 

[63Kcode]

I was in the same spot as the OP a few years ago. I just priced my cues on what I thought the market would bare. Now that I am on my 50th cue I still do it the same way. Even at 50 cues I can't base my prices on the hours it takes to make a cue. A lot of my time, at this point, is spent making fixtures and tools to do something I haven't done before. Taking the time to log each function I do on each cue I make would wear me out and take most of the fun out of my shop time. My first cues I would gues that I made $.50 an hour on. The same cue now I would make around $5 an hour.

I would recomend that you price your cues to sell. There is a guy here who started at the same time I did. He priced his cues 2X what I did. He has boxs of cues sitting around. Won't build anymore and nobody cares if he did. Then there is another guy around here who gives his cues away. He makes some of the nicest cues I have seen. Me, I am happy to price my cues at what I think they are worth. Most are sold before they are finished. If not, then I have something to play with for awhile.

I might not be making much on the cues I make. I do get a lot of satisfaction seeing people play with them. Even when they beat me with them. Some day I hope to walk in to a strange room and see someone playing with one of mine.

Larry

 

[scdiveteam]

I was in the same spot as the OP a few years ago. I just priced my cues on what I thought the market would bare. Now that I am on my 50th cue I still do it the same way. Even at 50 cues I can't base my prices on the hours it takes to make a cue. A lot of my time, at this point, is spent making fixtures and tools to do something I haven't done before. Taking the time to log each function I do on each cue I make would wear me out and take most of the fun out of my shop time. My first cues I would gues that I made $.50 an hour on. The same cue now I would make around $5 an hour.

I would recomend that you price your cues to sell. There is a guy here who started at the same time I did. He priced his cues 2X what I did. He has boxs of cues sitting around. Won't build anymore and nobody cares if he did. Then there is another guy around here who gives his cues away. He makes some of the nicest cues I have seen. Me, I am happy to price my cues at what I think they are worth. Most are sold before they are finished. If not, then I have something to play with for awhile.

I might not be making much on the cues I make. I do get a lot of satisfaction seeing people play with them. Even when they beat me with them. Some day I hope to walk in to a strange room and see someone playing with one of mine.

Larry

Larry,

There is two questions in life that are important to a person. Are you happy and are you having fun. The satisfaction you gained from people playing with your cues is awesome.

I have had a similar experience as you but I did not make the .50 per hour even. I gave away between 40 to 50 cues to some league player friends and my employees at my Billiards Cafe.

I did this as a beta testing program to get my cues into the field and get feedback from people without having any bad press about my product. When a problem came up they would show me and I would either fix it or make them a new cue. Most of my problems where in the finish end of the biz but I did have a couple of buzz problems initially.

The biggest benefit of my beta test program was I am able to still see my cues an track their acclamation into the field. This has helped me in my QA QC program more than any words I can say.

I am now coming up to cue 150 and today I am getting very good money for my cues because I have the confidence that they are at a very high standard. If someone does not want to pay my price, I don't sell the cue and they can spend their money elsewhere.

Cues are handmade items that require an extreme amount of experience, time, effort and creative ability to produce. Not to mention the huge amount of capitol it takes to equip a properly set up shop.

If you can say in your heart of hearts that your cues are able to be put up in the same category as some top name cue makers scrutinizing all aspects, then there is now reason to not get that same tier of pricing. At least that is how I feel.

If you know that your cues are at a high level covering all of the details it takes to be world class the best thing to do is build inventory and sell to those who recognize your talents. Eventually your inventory will deplete as your brand increases if you treat the customer honestly before and after the sale.

JMHO,

Rick

 

[desi2960]

building cues is a great way to get rich

the mechanic that works on my mb charges me $95.00 per hr, i just had some dozer work done at $125.00 per hr, at my jewelry shop i charge $75.00 per hr to set diamonds. when i build cues or do repairs i am lucky to make $20.00 per hr.

chuck starkey

 

[JCIN]

$60/hr is shop time, not my wage. It is no different than being an auto mechanic. It isn't just labor but overhead as well.

For the level of work you do and the turn around time it is a bargain. A shop rate of $60 an hour is pretty damn reasonable for any type of skilled trade these days.

Someone wants to rent my studio with me as an operator its $500 a day. Right at about $60 an hour. When you figure there is well over six figures worth of equipment in that space plus an experienced person to run it that $60 an hour starts to look pretty thin from my side but it is what it is I guess.

 

[KJ Cues]

So far in this thread, this question has been hinted at but not really addressed.
The Chinese can build a fair-quality cue for somewhere in the $200/400 range.
The cue will play good and give the client some years of satisfaction.
Good finish, decent wrap, appealing designs, nice rings, etc.

Can you compete?
Can you build a cue in that price-range that will cause the client to consider buying from you?
Why would the client buy from you when they can get their 'dream cue' from China?
Starting CMs would be wise to consider these points; your clients are.

If you wish to compete for that price-range, the Chinese are your competition.
You can't compete.
Made in America has it's own allure. That's worth something.
As is 'locally owned' and local service. You have to beat the competition with quality
because they've already got you beat with the numbers.

The bottom-line question is: can you build a better cue than the competition?
If so, then you can charge accordingly.
If not then you know where your price-point is.

KJ

 

[NY9912]

deleted - 7/25/2020

 

[Newsheriffintwn]

Cue making is a labor of love and always will be. I have never even heard of a cue maker who sat down ahead of time( before buying equipment) and wrote out a business plan figuring out what he would need to sell his cues at to make a living. I would be fairly certain anyone who did would sure as hell not build cues. Its been said many times before Cue makers must be masters of so many different fields to make a decent looking and playing cue. I think a lot of the upstart cue makers especially on AZ try and charge what the well established makers get hoping they can somehow be on that level price wise, but not overall be there.

Ive seen Cue Makers giving their cues away as well as others trying to charge 2 or 3 times what they actually could or would sell for. Its hard to separate the business end of building a cue from the desire and satisfaction of cue making. Common sense should prevail, if not the market will set the price.

 

[pescadoman]

$60/hr is shop time, not my wage. It is no different than being an auto mechanic. It isn't just labor but overhead as well.

If he gets 25.00 or more out of that he is is doing REALLY well. I would also hope he works on "flag" hours, meaning if he quotes 4 hours for a repair and can do it in 2 because of his skill and experience he still gets paid for 4.

When I worked at the dealership we were charging 90.00(in 97) and the best guys were only getting 27.00.

 

[PDX]

I applaud those for making money and relatively decent money at that. But let's put things into perspective. While a dealership is roughly $100/hr, their overhead is much more than the independent or mobile mechanic whose rates are generally 30-50/hr. Am I wrong in looking at CM's as independent pool cue mechanics? Am I wrong in thinking you have a more flexible schedule, work from home and create your own hours and no as**ole bosses to deal with?

It would seem from research that a fair amount of cuemakers from the 60's, 70's and 80's where retired machinists and or skilled tradesmen. Years of experience and a generally a retirement to live on.

Just out of curiosity, but when did it become common for CM's to live soley off of their cues and repairs?

 

[seahorse1877]

Pricing

I am still new to making cues, probably about 50 with conversions. I do it because I love it. I never have given any thought to overhead, electric, tools...etc. I bought the basic equipment starting out and have gotten a machine here and there over the course of two years. I have gotten what I feel is reasonable for my cues. My cues are not perfect by no means and I do not charge " perfect " prices. The few players around who have some of my cues really like them and speak highly of them. That to me is enough payment. Now my " hobby " pays for itself and I do get alittle spending cash also. My limited skills and equipment keep me from charging top dollar but I think if you feel your skills and cues warrant " big money " then don't settle for anything less than " big money ". In my opinion worth is only what someone is willing to pay, so that means you might have to hang on to a cue you feel is worth $1000 for two years until you find someone willing to pay $1000. As for myself I want someone to have my cues and play with my cues more so than get all of the money I can out of them. Just my opinion, and I'm sure you know what they say about that. :grin:

 

[snipershot]

I applaud those for making money and relatively decent money at that. But let's put things into perspective. While a dealership is roughly $100/hr, their overhead is much more than the independent or mobile mechanic whose rates are generally 30-50/hr. Am I wrong in looking at CM's as independent pool cue mechanics? Am I wrong in thinking you have a more flexible schedule, work from home and create your own hours and no as**ole bosses to deal with?

It would seem from research that a fair amount of cuemakers from the 60's, 70's and 80's where retired machinists and or skilled tradesmen. Years of experience and a generally a retirement to live on.

Just out of curiosity, but when did it become common for CM's to live soley off of their cues and repairs?

If i had to live off making cues, id surely starve, because i have yet to sell one. Ive made a few, but every one of them has flaws and i wont sell em. I will perfect it eventually, but im just starting. As far as working my own hours, its true, i go at my own pace, and on my own time. I work 8 hours six or seven days a week, and work at least 4-5 hours in my shop after work, so there goes my free time. Last night i was off work at 10pm, hit the shop around 11pm, and finally quit workin out there at 5am. Its one of those things where once you get started on something you want to finish it. I worked on three different cues on three different lathes. I was working, sweating my ass off, and still didnt get one cue completed, but its ok because i made some good progress. I never knew how much went in to making cues. I will never again call someone a cue assembler, lol.

Joe

 

[bdcues]

I applaud those for making money and relatively decent money at that. But let's put things into perspective. While a dealership is roughly $100/hr, their overhead is much more than the independent or mobile mechanic whose rates are generally 30-50/hr. Am I wrong in looking at CM's as independent pool cue mechanics? Am I wrong in thinking you have a more flexible schedule, work from home and create your own hours and no as**ole bosses to deal with?

It would seem from research that a fair amount of cuemakers from the 60's, 70's and 80's where retired machinists and or skilled tradesmen. Years of experience and a generally a retirement to live on.

Just out of curiosity, but when did it become common for CM's to live soley off of their cues and repairs?

Your equation of the dealership to the independent/mobile mechanic is a thing of pure fiction. As a mechanic in both dealerships and independent repair shops and as an owner of an independent repair shop I think your equation does not work quite as simply as you put it. The dealership sells cars, carries financing, sells warranties, repair cars and sells parts not only for the cars they themselves repair but those the independent/mobile repair shops fix also. The independent generally does not of these. There are to many varying factors to make your comparison and each still bases his pricing on the cost of doing business. At $50.00 per hour in Seattle I could not afford to pay the bills at the current costs. Similar repair shops now charge $70.00 and up. Also, if you can find me a mobile mechanic, in my area or Seattle where I came from, that only charges $30.00hr for labor.... By the same token find me a plumber/electrician/carpenter that charges these kind of prices. The computer repair guy charges more than that, and he works out of his house and you have to go to him.

KJ brings up China and the cost of their cues. I saw the other day they are now selling directly on Ebay. There cost of doing business is less than those of us living in the US. If your lucky enough to be able to make a cue for $200.00 and make a profit, because your overhead is sooo low - Great, but most of us can not do that. Therefore we have to charge more money or be happy giving away our money and time to someone else.

Bob Danielson
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
As for when it became common??? Who says it is???

 

[JCIN]

I have never even heard of a cue maker who sat down ahead of time( before buying equipment) and wrote out a business plan figuring out what he would need to sell his cues at to make a living.

I have.

 

[63Kcode]

For a new cuemaker, what's a reasonable price to charge for a cue? Any suggestions?

No where in this did I see anything about making money! Just a simple question.

My first cue I sold. Sold for $200. A year later he sold it for $200 and bought a $350 cue. Last month I sold a cue for $325 to a friend. He sold it last week for $400 and now wants me to build him a $600 to $1,200 cue. So Like I said in my last post. Price them to sell and see What the market will bare.

Larry

 

[Cuemaster98]

I have to agree, the rewards of seeing someone using my cue is worth more to me than the money I made from them. Having said that I still want to make a return for the amount of time I spent making these cues (I think I got my cost covered almost in 6 months). When I first started, my goals was to make enough to pay for all the money I invested in the equipment. The fastest ways was to do repairs...specifically replacing leather wrap and making conversion cues (margins on these were very lucrative). I had hundreds of blanks so conversion was just a natural route to take. I would recommend that at least have a plan to recover you cost first and then once the machine is paid for...the rest will be just icing on the cake.

Anyway, I was at my local pool hall yesterday and a local player came up to me and show me his new cue that he said plays better than anything he's tried. His playing cue was a Mezz for a while until he got this cue in a deal. To my surprise he tell me how much he loves playing with the cue and that it was the best cue he has played with to date. Is was nice to hear real feedback from a player......he was surprised when I told him it was one of my first cue that I put together. I made the cue for a friend who ended trading the cue for a high end Predator and somehow it found it way to Rafael.

I still make a few conversion once in a while but I realizes that the opportunity cost for making cue is just too expensive and not really worth it when you put it up with family time, pool time, new skills, health hazards, etc. It was suppose to be only a hobby .

Regards,
Duc.

 

[PDX]

Every person that lives in this country will need a mechanic/plumber/carpenter to get by in life at some point, if not multiple times. Pool cues, while I do love them to death, are to some extent frivolous aspects of our lives. To say you can charge A to follow it up with "find a X/Y/Z that charges A" is pointless. Apples an oranges.

Didn't balabushka part own a pool hall to allow him to make cues?

Quality and experience supersede your initial investment. If rates are based solely on investment, where does quality workmanship and quality experience come into play?

Did Ernie G. figure that out in the 60's when he started, or in the early 80's after he came out is semi retirement? If he can make what he does off of flat bottom points, then more power to him. I guess 40+ years of cue building helps.