Dean Cue pics

smokey said:
john,

you make great cases for sure. an expert for sure.

are you a cue expert too?

miles
Click to expand...

No, far from it. My comments are based on over 25 years of playing and 17 years of hanging around custom and production cuemakers. And based on 20 years of selling cues.

I guess I have been privileged through the case making to have had the opportunity to learn the hows and whys of cuemaking from dozens of cuemakers all over the world. I might belong to a very small group that has spent consdierable time in cuemaker's shops and factories all over the world.

I had a personal collection of about 20 cues ranging from mundane to very special. I estimate that I have owned well over 200 cues in my lifetime. Dave Gross can attest to the fact that I know cues and have owned some of the best. In our German shop we had over 100 cues on the wall at any given time with most of them being custom and most being names you all are familiar with.

So while I am no expert I do consider myself to be quite experienced with a vast range of cues. There aren't many brands that I have not hit with, not many that I personally, my partners or my business has not owned. I would say that I am qualified to judge a good hitting cue from a bad hitting cue even as subjective as "hit" is. I am pretty sure that a cue I classify as good hitting will be found to be so by most people who have a similar experience level as I have.

I have seen the flirtation with carom jointed cues for many years on and off and have yet to see them take off.

However I will say this - in our shop in Geremany we had two custom cues by an Italian maker - not Longoni - whose name escapes me right now, something with an A. One was made with a pool taper and one with a carom taper. Both had carom wood joints in the shaft. With the pool cue I could do things with the cue ball that I could not do with any of the standard "American" style pool cues we had in stock. And I tried. I have told this story several times on various forums in different contexts.

The point is that there is something to the big wood pin (and perhaps to the big inserted pin in the shaft) that may well be better for playing pool than we know. Perhaps, and this is strictly my opinion, these configuations are more suitable for games like nine ball where there is a lot of cueball movement and fast cloth. Perhaps the cues in the Bushka style of construction were more suited to Straight Pool and slow cloth. I don't know. What I do know is that cues with carom wood joints do play differently, some feel they play better than standard cues.
 
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Idiotic me, I left mine at work Saturday, so I had to use other cues yesterday. I can't say that I can't play with the others. I just would rather play with the "ugly stick". I may be a bull in a china shop, but with it, I play more like a cat than a bull. I'm sure there are other cues made similarly that play well also, but thanks to Dean for opening our eyes to this new option.

tim
 
There is a maker's mark on the Hoppe ring, looks like JN with a bar over it. Who is this maker??
 
Two questions have been asked
1) will this joint catch on?
With no claim to inspiration I can't predict the future,but the results of this experiment might introduce many to an idea that works.I intend to offer high end,high quality cues for players and collectors alike,but our concept is to test it first and that is what we are doing.
2) question 2 Who is the cue maker?

He is an engineer in Dallas who just started making cues and is not all that comfortable with the limelight.He is very reluctant to have his name dragged through the gutter by the types who accuse before they have the slightest idea what they are talking about.When he saw the remarks I have recieved and the groundless aspersions cast,he asked that I leave him out of the contrversy.He can't understand why people don't try it before they criticize.Something like common sense or the scientific method not easily appreciated byall pool players.
 
deanoc said:
Two questions have been asked
1) will this joint catch on?
With no claim to inspiration I can't predict the future,but the results of this experiment might introduce many to an idea that works.I intend to offer high end,high quality cues for players and collectors alike,but our concept is to test it first and that is what we are doing.
2) question 2 Who is the cue maker?

He is an engineer in Dallas who just started making cues and is not all that comfortable with the limelight.He is very reluctant to have his name dragged through the gutter by the types who accuse before they have the slightest idea what they are talking about.When he saw the remarks I have recieved and the groundless aspersions cast,he asked that I leave him out of the contrversy.He can't understand why people don't try it before they criticize.Something like common sense or the scientific method not easily appreciated byall pool players.
Click to expand...

dean i would not sweat it , some folks are scared of the unknown and hence criticize the unknown or when something different comes along ,or maybe they are worried their high dollar collections are not the best playing cue ,who knows. i know im a peon in the pool circle but you have my support 100% . I do not blame the maker for wanting to be private i would too when starting a new venture, i have no doubts it will be successful.

satisfied
ron
 
JB Cases said:
No, far from it. My comments are based on over 25 years of playing and 17 years of hanging around custom and production cuemakers. And based on 20 years of selling cues.

I guess I have been privileged through the case making to have had the opportunity to learn the hows and whys of cuemaking from dozens of cuemakers all over the world. I might belong to a very small group that has spent consdierable time in cuemaker's shops and factories all over the world.

I had a personal collection of about 20 cues ranging from mundane to very special. I estimate that I have owned well over 200 cues in my lifetime. Dave Gross can attest to the fact that I know cues and have owned some of the best. In our German shop we had over 100 cues on the wall at any given time with most of them being custom and most being names you all are familiar with.

So while I am no expert I do consider myself to be quite experienced with a vast range of cues. There aren't many brands that I have not hit with, not many that I personally, my partners or my business has not owned. I would say that I am qualified to judge a good hitting cue from a bad hitting cue even as subjective as "hit" is. I am pretty sure that a cue I classify as good hitting will be found to be so by most people who have a similar experience level as I have.

I have seen the flirtation with carom jointed cues for many years on and off and have yet to see them take off.

However I will say this - in our shop in Geremany we had two custom cues by an Italian maker - not Longoni - whose name escapes me right now, something with an A. One was made with a pool taper and one with a carom taper. Both had carom wood joints in the shaft. With the pool cue I could do things with the cue ball that I could not do with any of the standard "American" style pool cues we had in stock. And I tried. I have told this story several times on various forums in different contexts.

The point is that there is something to the big wood pin (and perhaps to the big inserted pin in the shaft) that may well be better for playing pool than we know. Perhaps, and this is strictly my opinion, these configuations are more suitable for games like nine ball where there is a lot of cueball movement and fast cloth. Perhaps the cues in the Bushka style of construction were more suited to Straight Pool and slow cloth. I don't know. What I do know is that cues with carom wood joints do play differently, some feel they play better than standard cues.
Click to expand...

thanks for your very complete answer john. and i didn't realize you had so much experience with cues. sorry if my question may have sounded sarcastic, i didn't realize till i read it after submission.

your question:

JB Cases said:
I wonder if the next few years will see pool cues going to a hybrid of carom and pool tapers?
Click to expand...

it will be interesting to see. i think dean opened a door currently here on az. and just a funny note; when i was about 12 i played pool for the 1st time at a friends home. i used to play often and always used a snooker cue because i liked the thin ferrule - just fit my hands better; don't know if it was the cue or not, but i played better pool then than now!

from what i know about dean, there are many expert makers who respect him and would be happy to make the better cues with deans construction.

it will be interesting to see how far this goes.

miles
 
Tank138 said:
Hey Glen,
Can you play better with this cue than your Joe Callaluca cue ??:confused:
If you do not want your Black Boar can I have it :D :D
Tank
Click to expand...
Tank,
It is still up in the air if I play better with Dean's cue or the other cues in my arsenal. All I can say is I am giving Dean's cue a try and I am beating a person who I play pool with daily. He usually beats me in 14:1, however since I started to play with this cue, I seem to have the advantage. No, you can't have my Black Boar.:(
As I said before, this cue plays very sporty. I can't believe the draw I get from it. When we hook up again, I'll turn it over to you so you and your friends can give it a tumble. :)
Glen
 
I"M sorry sir you are too late to buy a DEAN

is the sad story you will hear if you haven't talked to Dean by Tuesday,January 15.If you can't make up your mind to call and say, "I want a chance to play better,and I'm putting my money where my mouth is.Its not enough to send a PM,you must grab your phone,beat your chest and actually say 'Put me down for that $300 prototype" I want it.Sure you do.
Don't be a panty waist,forget those no playin nay sayers who don't have $2 to rub together.Quit being a follower for once in your life put $300 on one roll of the dice.Maybe you can't afford the best of everything,does that mean you can't have the best of anything?Heck no,and you know how to get it,but you can't keep stalling.

Hold the phone lets not get emotional now,after all its your cash,slow down let's look at the facts.

FACT#1 Everybody who bought one likes it...100%
FACT#2 Everybody who is negative has not hit this groovy cue.
FACT#3 All those negative " know it alls"don't know Dean
FACT#4 And the most important fact of all..you want to play better,admit it you are tired of all those pool bullies and if you could shoot just a little better you could win the dough,the pep could be back,yeah baby!

Imagine the feeling of walking out the door with the loot,see that jerk who laughed and called you a dog for hangin the cheese,Who is laughing now?
Cue stick $300,new found confidence priceless,be the first kid on the block to own a DEANO

And what do you think the guy who bought a Balabushka for $125 in1973 and sells it for a tidy profit feels like? Listen as the other wives tell their husband"Why don't you ever make a big killing like Henry." Think for a minute,no more $300 cues after Tuesday .The other guys want yours now!! "What'll you take,you only paid $300 ,you want double? Triple your money""I don't care if I sell it or not,I like the way it plays",you say with just a touch of sanctified independence.

Who's lauging now,poor old DREW is not so funny now is he? I say,There is no guarantee". The right kind of guy says "I don't want no stinkin guarantee,all I want is a chance"
. The right guy says I ain't buying pretty ,I'm buying opportunity


quick 214 477 7323 Wednesday is too late

call DEAN

Its not for the faint of heart
 
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Imperial Court weavers,classic.They are all as light as a cobweb, and one must feel as if one had nothing at all upon the body;but that is just the beauty of them.
 
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JB Cases said:
Do you all think that the carom cue joint - that is with the pin in the shaft will ever truly catch on in the USA?

I ask because I just tried out an experimental cue last week that has a G-10 pin in the shaft just like this one and it hit great. It was coincidentally quite similar to this one in that it was a cross between a pool and carom taper.

I am just thinking that this is what carom players have known forever as just about every carom player of consequence that I know plays with a cue that has the pin in the shaft - with most of the pins being threaded from the same piece of wood (not inserted).

I wonder if the next few years will see pool cues going to a hybrid of carom and pool tapers?
Click to expand...


Layani cues also have the pin in the shaft.
 
deanoc said:
is the sad story you will hear if you haven't talked to Dean by Tuesday,January 15.If you can't make up your mind to call and say, "I want a chance to play better,and I'm putting my money where my mouth is.Its not enough to send a PM,you must grab your phone,beat your chest and actually say 'Put me down for that $300 prototype" I want it.Sure you do.
Don't be a panty waist,forget those no playin nay sayers who don't have $2 to rub together.Quit being a follower for once in your life put $300 on one roll of the dice.Maybe you can't afford the best of everything,does that mean you can't have the best of anything?Heck no,and you know how to get it,but you can't keep stalling.


Will you please give us a break? Enough of this carney barker spiel. Once your contrived deadline is reached, will you desist from this offensive pandering? You have reeled in the fish that were going to bite. Thank you.
Click to expand...
 
deanoc said:
is the sad story you will hear if you haven't talked to Dean by Tuesday,January 15.If you can't make up your mind to call and say, "I want a chance to play better,and I'm putting my money where my mouth is.Its not enough to send a PM,you must grab your phone,beat your chest and actually say 'Put me down for that $300 prototype" I want it.Sure you do.
Don't be a panty waist,forget those no playin nay sayers who don't have $2 to rub together.Quit being a follower for once in your life put $300 on one roll of the dice.Maybe you can't afford the best of everything,does that mean you can't have the best of anything?Heck no,and you know how to get it,but you can't keep stalling.

Hold the phone lets not get emotional now,after all its your cash,slow down let's look at the facts.

FACT#1 Everybody who bought one likes it...100%
FACT#2 Everybody who is negative has not hit this groovy cue.
FACT#3 All those negative " know it alls"don't know Dean
FACT#4 And the most important fact of all..you want to play better,admit it you are tired of all those pool bullies and if you could shoot just a little better you could win the dough,the pep could be back,yeah baby!

Imagine the feeling of walking out the door with the loot,see that jerk who laughed and called you a dog for hangin the cheese,Who is laughing now?
Cue stick $300,new found confidence priceless,be the first kid on the block to own a DEANO

And what do you think the guy who bought a Balabushka for $125 in1973 and sells it for a tidy profit feels like? Listen as the other wives tell their husband"Why don't you ever make a big killing like Henry." Think for a minute,no more $300 cues after Tuesday .The other guys want yours now!! "What'll you take,you only paid $300 ,you want double? Triple your money""I don't care if I sell it or not,I like the way it plays",you say with just a touch of sanctified independence.

Who's lauging now,poor old DREW is not so funny now is he? I say,There is no guarantee". The right kind of guy says "I don't want no stinkin guarantee,all I want is a chance"
. The right guy says I ain't buying pretty ,I'm buying opportunity


quick 214 477 7323 Wednesday is too late

call DEAN

Its not for the faint of heart
Click to expand...

I'm quoting this simply because it's comedy gold.
 
JB Cases said:
Do you all think that the carom cue joint - that is with the pin in the shaft will ever truly catch on in the USA?

I ask because I just tried out an experimental cue last week that has a G-10 pin in the shaft just like this one and it hit great. It was coincidentally quite similar to this one in that it was a cross between a pool and carom taper.

I am just thinking that this is what carom players have known forever as just about every carom player of consequence that I know plays with a cue that has the pin in the shaft - with most of the pins being threaded from the same piece of wood (not inserted).

I wonder if the next few years will see pool cues going to a hybrid of carom and pool tapers?
Click to expand...

It all depends on what you mean by catch on.
You can buy a threaded tenon poolcue today from Korea
for $40 and up.

Also, don't put too much stock in what Carom players say.
I am a Carom player of sorts - FWIW Carom, esp 3 Cushion
and Pool may LOOK alot alike, but so do ping pong and tennis.
They are very, very different games. I would no more use a
Carom cue to play Pool than I would use a Pool cue to play 3 cushion

Adam sold a line of this type cue with a pool shaft in the 1970s
when their cues, in general, were much more popular in the USA
than today. They were a flop biz wise.

There is no doubt some people will like this design - FWIW
this is the original 2 pc cue design - developed circa 1830
before cuemakers could easily use metal pins and joints.
Talk about the test of time...

Dale
 
TheBook said:
Layani cues also have the pin in the shaft.
Click to expand...

My point exactly. so did Robinson cues and both they and Layani cues are hard to resell based on the pin-in-shaft configuration. I owned two Layanis, loved the hit, one Robinson that I didn't like the hit of so much and took forever to sell.

Now this isn't really about resale value but about playability. I personally think that cues are heading towards a mixture of carom and pool constructions.

I know that some folks offer them now and I know that Adams offered them in the past. We all also know that the best thing isn't always the most popular.

The majority of "pool" cues are made to about the same specs as a Balabushka, not talking about quality of materials here or quality of construction, just the style of build, weight distribution and general taper.

I don't think Dean and his cue are going to convince all cuemakers to switch to this style.

However the early results replicate the same thing I felt years ago with that Italian pool/carom hybrid and what I felt a week ago with the G-10 big pin-in-the shaft PC hybrid.

And it seems as if there are more cue makers going this direction each year. I guess the proof will be in the first truly upscale cuemaker to switch and stick with it.
 
pdcue said:
It all depends on what you mean by catch on.
You can buy a threaded tenon poolcue today from Korea
for $40 and up.

Also, don't put too much stock in what Carom players say.
I am a Carom player of sorts - FWIW Carom, esp 3 Cushion
and Pool may LOOK alot alike, but so do ping pong and tennis.
They are very, very different games. I would no more use a
Carom cue to play Pool than I would use a Pool cue to play 3 cushion

Adam sold a line of this type cue with a pool shaft in the 1970s
when their cues, in general, were much more popular in the USA
than today. They were a flop biz wise.

There is no doubt some people will like this design - FWIW
this is the original 2 pc cue design - developed circa 1830
before cuemakers could easily use metal pins and joints.
Talk about the test of time...

Dale
Click to expand...

By catch on I mean that this construction will rival or replace metal jointed cues.

I know that such cues are available. Buffalo in Europe sells them, Karella here in the USA, but no major distributer is going out of their way to market a pool/carom hybrid based on it's playing characteristics. Some small cuemakers are experimenting with it, like Dean and his cuemaker.

I wasn't around in the 70's as far as pool is concerned so I can't comment on how heavily Adams pushed the wood jointed cues nor whether they were hybrids in the same style as today's are. I know Adams still produces a TON of wood jointed carom cues.

As for listening to what carom players have to say. The ones I know, who are world class, are pretty picky about their equipment. I am pretty sure that they would be using a pool cue if it were the right cue for them to be successful. The point wasn't that that carom cues are the ultimate because Carom players use them - it was that Carom players use them because they work - namely to move a heavy cueball over long distances with tons of spin.

So the postulation on my part is that since pool is NOW played on much faster cloth than in the 70's and the games played require much more cueball movement - then perhaps a cue that is more towards the Carom end of the cue spectrum is better to play today's games on today's equipment. Perhaps the Bushka style isn't the best cue construction for today's games. But humans can amazingly adapt and overcome most adversities including being handicapped by their cue.

I however am firmly in the camp which believes that different cue construction produces noticeably different reactions and that in any given range of results there will be some construction methods that clearly outperform others.

I would not use a carom cue to play pool either - however it's entirely possible that a cue which has some construction elements of carom cues and some specs familiar to pool cues might outperform a cue that is strictly built to "pool" specs.

Now having said that I have been SOUNDLY beaten many times by Snooker and Carom players who used snooker and carom cues exclusively. These players had no trouble at all playing at world class levels with those cues.
 
JB Cases: And it seems as if there are more cue makers going this direction each year. I guess the proof will be in the first truly upscale cuemaker to switch and stick with it.

I'm rooting for Dean and the engineer!

.
 
JB Cases said:
By catch on I mean that this construction will rival or replace metal jointed cues.

I know that such cues are available. Buffalo in Europe sells them, Karella here in the USA, but no major distributer is going out of their way to market a pool/carom hybrid based on it's playing characteristics. Some small cuemakers are experimenting with it, like Dean and his cuemaker.

I wasn't around in the 70's as far as pool is concerned so I can't comment on how heavily Adams pushed the wood jointed cues nor whether they were hybrids in the same style as today's are. I know Adams still produces a TON of wood jointed carom cues.

As for listening to what carom players have to say. The ones I know, who are world class, are pretty picky about their equipment. I am pretty sure that they would be using a pool cue if it were the right cue for them to be successful. The point wasn't that that carom cues are the ultimate because Carom players use them - it was that Carom players use them because they work - namely to move a heavy cueball over long distances with tons of spin.

So the postulation on my part is that since pool is NOW played on much faster cloth than in the 70's and the games played require much more cueball movement - then perhaps a cue that is more towards the Carom end of the cue spectrum is better to play today's games on today's equipment. Perhaps the Bushka style isn't the best cue construction for today's games. But humans can amazingly adapt and overcome most adversities including being handicapped by their cue.

I however am firmly in the camp which believes that different cue construction produces noticeably different reactions and that in any given range of results there will be some construction methods that clearly outperform others.

I would not use a carom cue to play pool either - however it's entirely possible that a cue which has some construction elements of carom cues and some specs familiar to pool cues might outperform a cue that is strictly built to "pool" specs.

Now having said that I have been SOUNDLY beaten many times by Snooker and Carom players who used snooker and carom cues exclusively. These players had no trouble at all playing at world class levels with those cues.
Click to expand...

It would seem there was much about my post you misunderstood,
but that is for another day...

Main point is, the diference you see in the playability
of a carom cue is overwhelmingly due to the profile and
wood of the shaft - not the joint construction.

Dale<there may be a Lone Ranger, but there ain't no silver bullets>
 
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