Dennis Orcullo Can Beat Me 101 out of 100 Times, BUT...

Kickin' Chicken

Kickin' Chicken

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Far be it for me to second guess this champion's decision making but there was one instance from the USBTC 9 ball Final against Shane that I think is worth mentioning.

And, btw, my thought about this shot was the same prior to his ever pulling the trigger so it didn't come from the benefit of hindsight. It worked out for him anyway, as you will see.

At the 13:00 mark, watch as Dennis is facing a thin cut on the 1 ball into the top left corner and he is contemplating shaping up whitey for a 3 ball cross side shot which was fairly tough to not only get perfect on but also to execute, maybe a 60 - 70% chance would be my guess.

Alternately, there appears to be a federal penitentiary lockup shot available courtesy of the 4 ball near that same upper corner. Looks like Dennis *with relative ease* could have sent the 1 ball down to the middle of the table while locking whitey behind that 4. The 1 ball being in the middle of the table could have provided a needed break out opportunity for the 3 ball.

Please have a look and let me know how you would have played the shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDsAzH7Ru9k&list=PLv61scj6dmBGPNT7ITtn7KTb3yvhnY_93&index=2

Regardless of this match, Dennis sure kicked some behind out there. :cool:

Also, I saw two very uncharacteristic errors from Shane, one being his knocking the cue ball off the table on a thin cut shot and the other, a big miscue at 38:20.

Other than those, it was pretty much robot-like perfection from these two worldbeaters. :wink:

Thanks again to JCIN & TAR for putting these matches up on youtube for us to enjoy. :thumbup:

best,
brian kc
 
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Like Ken said that's nine ball. Thanks to Justin for posting these matches,
excellent quailty.:thumbup:
 
I couldn't tell how close that 3 was to the side pocket but my initial thought was just to run into that 2 ball cluster and break out the 3. If the 3 wasn't far enough away from the side to avoid the scratch off the kiss than I would have maybe played your safety. Not sure though -- It's hard to argue with being agressive on the bar table.
 
KC I watched it last night and thought the exact same thing on that shot, easy safe lockup on he 4. And when he landed on the 3 cross side shape, It looked too straight.

But like you said, 101 out of 100 :rolleyes:

That soft break seemed to produce 2 pocketed balls too, no reason to take that chance on the 3 IMO. Kev
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Far be it for me to second guess this champion's decision making but there was one instance from the USBTC 9 ball Final against Shane that I think is worth mentioning.

And, btw, my thought about this shot was the same prior to his ever pulling the trigger so it didn't come from the benefit of hindsight. It worked out for him anyway, as you will see.

At the 13:00 mark, watch as Dennis is facing a thin cut on the 1 ball into the top left corner and he is contemplating shaping up whitey for a 3 ball cross side shot which was fairly tough to not only get perfect on but also to execute, maybe a 60 - 70% chance would be my guess.

Alternately, there appears to be a federal penitentiary lockup shot available courtesy of the 4 ball near that same upper corner. Looks like Dennis *with relative ease* could have sent the 1 ball down to the middle of the table while locking whitey behind that 4. The 1 ball being in the middle of the table could have provided a needed break out opportunity for the 3 ball.

Please have a look and let me know how you would have played the shot.
Click to expand...

I stopped reading your post and went directly to the link so as not to be influenced by your opinion, and I agree. In that spot, the safety presents a far higher percentage play and if you're not playing the percentages you're playing incorrectly IMHO. With that said, we all ignore the percentages sometimes, and yea, that's nine ball, but it sucks to watch a player of Dennis' caliber make the same shot I watched an APA SL2 make in her 9 ball match Monday night.
 
Ha Ha, sometimes chicken you really are a chicken. Remember who you're talking about here. This ain't Joe Blow shooting! That one ball is easy for him. It's all about getting shape on the three ball. And he has a sideboard on the five for the cross side bank. A player like Dennis will almost always opt to run out if given the chance, as opposed to play safe and let his opponent come back to the table. Especially on a bar table where anything can happen. It's not really a difficult run out for Dennis if he gets on the three right.
 
jay helfert said:
Ha Ha, sometimes chicken you really are a chicken. Remember who you're talking about here. This ain't Joe Blow shooting! That one ball is easy for him. It's all about getting shape on the three ball. And he has a sideboard on the five for the cross side bank. A player like Dennis will almost always opt to run out if given the chance, as opposed to play safe and let his opponent come back to the table. Especially on a bar table where anything can happen. It's not really a difficult run out for Dennis if he gets on the three right.
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I agree, if his cue ball rolled a half ball shorter he had a great angle on the 3 ball bank and its a huge pocket with the 5 ball there. He is one hell of a player, Scott and I were talking about him last night and I was giving him a little crap about how much Dennis and Shane practice and imagine how good he would be playing if he played 8 hours a day like those guys. Scott said that Dennis is the greatest player alive right now and its tough not to believe it. He is one of the only guys I enjoy watching Shane play because they are such a good match.
 
jay helfert said:
Ha Ha, sometimes chicken you really are a chicken. Remember who you're talking about here. This ain't Joe Blow shooting! That one ball is easy for him. It's all about getting shape on the three ball. And he has a sideboard on the five for the cross side bank. A player like Dennis will almost always opt to run out if given the chance, as opposed to play safe and let his opponent come back to the table. Especially on a bar table where anything can happen. It's not really a difficult run out for Dennis if he gets on the three right.
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Bgok!!! Yep, chicken I am. :grin-square:

You know, Jay, I tried to put myself in his shoes and they didn't fit right. :smile:

Let me ask you because you've been up close and seen a million of these similar situations.

What do you think the percentages were for Dennis to cut the 1 ball in and not only successfully get good shape for the cross side but execute it? 70%, 80%, 90%?

To me it looked like the cue ball rolled 3 or 4 inches too far and so he was a little too steep for the bank and tried to shorten it with a little inside but caught it fat and double-kissed.

The safety behind the 4 looked like a 99% lockup to me and that would have left Shane shooting his escape attempt at a small 1 ball in the middle of the table.

But alas, as you said, Dennis, understandably, possesses a whole lot of confidence.

Based on sheer math, though, I'd be shooting that lockup every time. BGOK!

best,
brian kc <---- a city beater (a smallish one) :o
 
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I think the real question is - what do you think Dennis' plan actually was on the 3? He drew the CB heftily and wasn't anywhere close to the bank on the 3... Unless he was trying a double-bank into the upper corner. Or maybe he was trying to get under the 5/9 for blockers? Or do you think he played a 3-way?? Draw towards the 9, try the bank, get safe or lucky ... one of 3 ways?
 
I think he played the right shot for Dennis. Look at where he touches the table with his cue at 12:55. If he gets there, that bank on the 3 is 95%+ for Dennis, on a bar table, with the 5 as a sideboard. If the bank goes, he's out. He rolled just a little far.

The first rule of bar box 9 ball is: run out. At this caliber of play, Dennis doesn't want to let Shane to the table, even if Shane is hooked. Too many things can go wrong on a bar box.

Edit: If I'm playing, I probably play the safety as you described. But I don't have Dennis's runout skills.
 
stljohnny said:
I think the real question is - what do you think Dennis' plan actually was on the 3? He drew the CB heftily and wasn't anywhere close to the bank on the 3... Unless he was trying a double-bank into the upper corner. Or maybe he was trying to get under the 5/9 for blockers? Or do you think he played a 3-way?? Draw towards the 9, try the bank, get safe or lucky ... one of 3 ways?
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He tried to bank it in the side. He was using draw to try to miss the double kiss. Didn't work.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Regardless of this match, Dennis sure kicked some behind out there. :cool:

Also, I saw two very uncharacteristic errors from Shane, one being his knocking the cue ball off the table on a thin cut shot and the other, a big miscue at 38:20.

Other than those, it was pretty much robot-like perfection from these two worldbeaters. :wink:

Thanks again to JCIN & TAR for putting these matches up on youtube for us to enjoy. :thumbup:

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...

I thought on this shot, the correct way to go was to hit the 1 on the left side of the ball....banking it to the end rail and 2 railing the cue ball back to the other end of the table.

Lots of balls to hook him behind down there. 7, 9 or 6.
 
I like your safetey as well.But If I have Dennis's skill or if im just feeling froggy I go for shape on the bank.Looks like he slightly over ran his possition on the bank but maybe could have avoided the kiss with inside english.
 
I too was looking at the safety, of course I'm not their speed and would have opted for it. Unless I missed it, there was not a single safety played the entire match. It was a good match. It boilded down to who made the fewest mistakes, not one outshooting the other.
 
You guys didn't even discuss Orcullo's most critical mistake. It was after Shane made two critical errors jumping the ball off the table and then miscueing which set Dennis up to tie the game. After Shane miscued, he was left with a straight in shot but had to play difficult position on a ball in the side. He setup well on the ball but he decided to shoot it with follow and run into a ball which left him with a severe cut on a ball that he overcut. Dennis should have drawn the cueball down instead of running into the ball. Running into the ball was always going to leave him the severe cut.

This kept him from tying the match from being way behind in alternate break and it being his break. Obviously the most important shot of the match. I honestly was really disappointed watching 'the best player in the world' in this match. Shows that they are human, I suppose. Would have been a much better match though had he got out from there.

Dennis made some critical errors and rushed some shots that led him to get out of line also out of frustration. Shows that you cannot letup even on a bartable and you have to bare down on each shot.

Hello, AZ. Been a while. Just happened to watch that earlier and had some comments about the match.
 
The double kiss made Dennis' shot look like a bigger blunder than it was. If whitey gets out of the way, the bank probably goes swish.

He arguably should have said "Well, I went a few inches too far and now the double kiss is unavoidable". Then ducked off the 3. The mistake wasn't trying to run out, but rather BSing himself into believing a ball goes when it simply doesn't.

For guys at a lower level, the safety is a good play and it's probably what I would do. Against a B player, the kick will probably miss and you'd get ball in hand with a chance to break out the 3. Against Shane, the kick is never gonna miss and you may not have an easier shot to sink the 1 and deal with the 3. So dennis chose a definite gameplan over a semi-random outcome.
 
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Dennis Orcullo Can Beat Me 101 out of 100 Times

Only 101 out of 100? I think you might be underestimating Dennis' game.
 
DeadPoked said:
You guys didn't even discuss Orcullo's most critical mistake. It was after Shane made two critical errors jumping the ball off the table and then miscueing which set Dennis up to tie the game. After Shane miscued, he was left with a straight in shot but had to play difficult position on a ball in the side. He setup well on the ball but he decided to shoot it with follow and run into a ball which left him with a severe cut on a ball that he overcut. Dennis should have drawn the cueball down instead of running into the ball. Running into the ball was always going to leave him the severe cut.

This kept him from tying the match from being way behind in alternate break and it being his break. Obviously the most important shot of the match. I honestly was really disappointed watching 'the best player in the world' in this match. Shows that they are human, I suppose. Would have been a much better match though had he got out from there.

Dennis made some critical errors and rushed some shots that led him to get out of line also out of frustration. Shows that you cannot letup even on a bartable and you have to bare down on each shot.

Hello, AZ. Been a while. Just happened to watch that earlier and had some comments about the match.
Click to expand...

He didn't seem too concerned with the match. Especially when you shoot a ball in one handed!
 
Does anyone else think they should at least call the 9 Ball?

Kickin' Chicken said:
Far be it for me to second guess this champion's decision making but there was one instance from the USBTC 9 ball Final against Shane that I think is worth mentioning.

And, btw, my thought about this shot was the same prior to his ever pulling the trigger so it didn't come from the benefit of hindsight. It worked out for him anyway, as you will see.

At the 13:00 mark, watch as Dennis is facing a thin cut on the 1 ball into the top left corner and he is contemplating shaping up whitey for a 3 ball cross side shot which was fairly tough to not only get perfect on but also to execute, maybe a 60 - 70% chance would be my guess.

Alternately, there appears to be a federal penitentiary lockup shot available courtesy of the 4 ball near that same upper corner. Looks like Dennis *with relative ease* could have sent the 1 ball down to the middle of the table while locking whitey behind that 4. The 1 ball being in the middle of the table could have provided a needed break out opportunity for the 3 ball.

Please have a look and let me know how you would have played the shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDsAzH7Ru9k&list=PLv61scj6dmBGPNT7ITtn7KTb3yvhnY_93&index=2

Regardless of this match, Dennis sure kicked some behind out there. :cool:

Also, I saw two very uncharacteristic errors from Shane, one being his knocking the cue ball off the table on a thin cut shot and the other, a big miscue at 38:20.

Other than those, it was pretty much robot-like perfection from these two worldbeaters. :wink:

Thanks again to JCIN & TAR for putting these matches up on youtube for us to enjoy. :thumbup:

best,
brian kc
Click to expand...

Yes, that 3 wasn't really on and he rushed the shot as a result....it happens to everyone at times.

Does anyone else think they should at least call the 9 Ball? All of the ESPN tournaments I played in we had to call the 9 Ball and I really think all balls should be called. The only exception is allowing a two way shot (playing a safe and a shot at the same time) and a two way shot (playing and calling two balls, only having to make one to continue) in each game.

I also think this would be a lot better to watch if they had to roll out each game, it would require much more strategy and shot-making. imo This "soft break" is painful to watch.
 
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