Round 2 (part 1)
Some good replies on this one. Let me single out the ones that jumped out
Nice thread [...] Have you been taking notes for a year to write this thread?
Thanks. Nope, I have just been a regular on the forum so it was easy to come up with these off the top of my head.
Bell: Thanks also!
Ironman: I guess you see some hatefulness in the thread? So did some others... Well, you may be on to something. But I was hoping for some cool info to come out of this thread, like a secret racking order for 8 ball or why owning your own break cue is the nuts, that sort of thing.
Marek: It's cool we agree on a lot of the important stuff.
To answer your questions: "What's real pool" ... hard to say, but I think pool is more 'real' when the side pockets are larger than the corners, and when a pro can still miss a shot just because of distance. As for what's "pure" pool - that's also difficult. But I like the idea of a game where you can shoot anything anywhere, and keep your inning alive for as long as you can bear down. Of course there is a little luck too in how the rack spreads and you may not be able to keep running balls forever, but there is always room to improve. Of all the games, this is the one people say has the least luck, and where the best player always wins.
Elitism in pool cuts both ways. There are people who sneer at those who use house cues and those who sneer at bangers with $1000 cues. Both are different types of jerks.
CREEDO TO THE BURN WARD STAT! haha, you may be right. To me, bangers with thousand dollar cues are at the very least wasting money, but we all waste money on something that makes us feel good. I do look down on the ones who have deceived themselves into thinking it makes them shoot straighter.
1. I think pool is awesome & should be free for everybody to get whatever enjoyment they can from it without hate mongers ruining it for them. They should buy whatever cue makes them feel good, and chalk it with whatever they want. They should feel good about putting their skills to the ultimate test of gambling, if they so choose. And they should do it on any size table with any cloth of any color.
I read your other part that basically said if everyone played exactly like I claim they should... pool would be more boring. You're probably right, but the whole "we can all do whatever we want and it's all good" is a little too happy crappy hippy dippy for me lol. I know, I seem like a huge hater for having all these negative opinions, but just as variety is the spice of life... so are opinions.
Anyway I never said let's cut out everything I don't prefer. I think straight pool is better than 9 ball but there's room for both in the world. I won't spend a grand on pretty inlays and designs but that doesn't mean I don't like looking at 'em. I also like looking at exotic knuckle bridges and reading about hustlers reeling in fish.
Also, doesn't it violate your philosophy to want to ban slow analytical players? And guys who put lots of stipulations on how they will match up? They should be free to enjoy pool however they want without Eric the hate mongerer ruining it for them!
I'm busting your balls a little there but you are dead wrong if you think slow players = guys who haven't learned how to play the game, or don't have the balls to just get down and shoot. Do Ralf Souquet or Johnny Archer lack balls or playing skill?
Whatever you do for a living I want to do. How do you have that much time on your hands to type all of those statements?
It's like 30 lines of text. It took 5 minutes while I was bored waiting for a DVD to finish burning. If you pointed to this current post I'm typing or the other few thousand I made though, you might have a point
Why do people buy $250,000+ supercars when they can buy a Kia for $10,000? ...(snip)...I guess if you could choose between a: Maserati [snip...] and a Civic, the Civic would be in the running with the others.
I am not BSing you when I say this: I would buy the civic. Then with the money I saved, I'd buy something that'd be really enjoyable. How about not having to work for a year or two and being able to go to the pool hall every day? That sounds a lot better than a Maserati. I don't need to be that guy with the flashy car. I am not out to impress anybody and I drive a very boring car. The car is just a tool to get me from point A to point B. Same with the cue.
I don't run multiple racks. And I bought myself a brand new 9-footer. So I guess that makes me a googan, whatever that means.
^^ JSP, I guess you got me there. I was thinking sticks and cases (and a thousand tip and shaft tools) rather than an actual table. Buying a table can improve your shooting for sure if you aren't there yet. Buying a really really nice case will not.
#1, I would say is almost true. A lot of house cues in my area are very poorly balanced, it's tough (but not impossible) to maintain a straight stroke.
No way. Are you saying saying your stick goes more vertical or 'rollercoaster' on a house cue? If so, I'm inclined to say you're not doing the "0 elbow drop by the book" stroke. Obviously the balance point isn't going to make you steer the tip left or right, that's all you. I'm not even convinced having the 'rollercoaster' effect is so bad. Anyway, I can draw a table length on a house cue, the only things that really prevent me from doing it as consistently are A. The tip will be beat to hell (cured with a tip tool) and B. The glossy shaft will chafe during my stroke (need to find a nicely worn cue or else buff the crap out of it for a minute).
There is no doubt however that a break cue is better than a house cue for breaking the rack.
Interesting gunz... why? I don't own or use a break cue. I am big fan of 'lighter is better' though so I use a light house cue and it does the job well. On the other hand I consider my break a hole in my game so maybe it doesn't do the job well.
2. You don't need to gamble to get good (yes, even pro) at pool.
Agree, but you have to compete somehow, and play people who are better than you.
Do you? I dunno. Landon Shuffett just ran a new record at straight pool and does 30 game sets with the ghost. It sounds like he can enjoy pool without competition. If you want to improve, you can and will. I dunno why I'm arguing with you, you agreed lol..
3. I'll disagree. People who give up the weight to get the match aren't crazy, or hate money. They want the challenge and want the match to happen. In this case I don't think it's the money that is motivating them as much as it is the challenge.
Well, mayyybe there is someone who plays for $10,000 bucks and TRULY doesn't expect to win... like they only think they have a 60% chance. But that way of thinking is so alien to me that I can hardly fathom it. I love a challenge too, but I won't bank my mortgage to get it. I think people who go into big money matches sincerely think they have a very good chance of winning (like 80%), and half of them were just plain wrong. That or they have someone sharing the risk.
Weirdly, we praise guys for going into matchups and gambling big money even though they're the underdog. A lot of guys on this forum will say they have "heart". I was raking leaves the other day and decided to withdraw everything from my checking account and sprinkle the 20's in with the leaves. I then set fire to the whole pile. I have more heart than anyone!
4. Disagree. Hitting the ball too hard or soft effects the angle quite a bit on kicks and banks. How hard or soft also effects the angle of the CB
You got me, I was talking about cuts but bank shots count too.
It affects your stroke more than anything. Too soft or too hard throws you off, and too soft can roll off. Also, you can jaw a shot hit too hard.
That's a good point too. That rail cut where slamming the ball rattles it out comes up all the time. And too soft can indeed roll off. I was thinking mostly about those people who love to say that after every missed ball. It's like they are too proud to admit they have no idea how much to cut the ball, so they chalk it up to the wrong speed, which I guess is more acceptible.
5. On the same subject, collision induced throw is overrated. It's barely going to affect your shot.
-How much english are we talking?
Chino - we must be brothers, because our mother named us so similarly.
On this question I was only talking about the tiny bit of throw from cutting a ball (without english). Throw that comes with sidespin is just plain old "throw" and that definitely is not overrated.
6. Tight pockets are overrated. This game is better and more fun on pockets where 2 balls can fit easily.
-But eventually there is no more challenge in that, and you want to tighten the pockets to make it harder for your opponents and increase your speed...
Dude, you must have reached a pretty sick level where there's no more challenge in the game for you. I don't run out of every rack where I have an open shot. I don't even run out of 50% of them. I don't even run 50 balls on bucket pockets. Pool seriously isn't challenging enough for you?
10. The guys who insist it's more "skillful" to play on slow grungy nappy cloth like in olden times are nuts.
-I know what they mean, but faster cloth requires more touch while slower cloth requires a better stroke.
Also
#10, slower cloth does require a more powerful stroke to execute. I seem to remember a lot of players having a rough time at the IPT qualifiers and that was 8 ball.
It requires a harder stroke, not a better one
That's what I don't like about this... people equate having to hit everything harder as being better. Like it's somehow preferable to be forced to hit really hard to get three feet of draw. To hit harder with control is more difficult, that's true... it'd also be more difficult to draw accurately with an umbrella. I's also more difficult to slam dunk a basketball with weights on your ankles. Doesn't mean basketball should be played that way. And if someone with monster calves can dunk anyway and the rest of us can't, I don't assume they're better at the game itself.
I think those IPT guys who struggled had plenty of skill, yet somehow they did worse. Did they lack 'skill' or 'stroke'? Or is it more likely the cloth is just crappy to play on? Maybe someone used to playing on slow cloth has an edge here, but that doesn't mean the best player is rising to the top, just the guy who is used to bad conditions.
11. 760 is better than 860 or anything else for playing straight pool.
-Straight pool is for people who can't find practice partners.
Haha it burnssssss. ..
12. Hand powder is lame. Get a glove.
-Disagree. I like the feel of wood running through my hand. So sue me.
MAYBE I WILL. Hand powder is still lame because I've never seen anyone use it who doesn't leave the table looking like a baker had a seizure on it.
also
A shaft should be kept up so that you need neither. A tiny amount of powder on the shaft and let that get on your hand is plenty if it is really hot and humid. Gloves???
You may have me here. I used to wear a glove all the time and still like how it feels. But I don't find myself needing one anymore. I assumed I somehow stopped sweating as much, but maybe it's that I don't shoot with a house cue anymore. I still feel gloves are superior to hand powder. The powder effect can wear off but the glove won't.
In 8 ball, racking order doesn't matter. The end result is gonna be random anyway.
Huh? Not true.
It's true! Even the 8 can move. Even the head ball sometimes ends up on the lower half of the table. There's so much crap flying around that any specific ball that you hope stays in any specific area is likely to get knocked around. The majority of the balls in the rack will get a kiss at some point during the breaking action. You can barely predict which half of the table they'll end up on. Trying to arrange the rack for a "planned" 8-ball runout (like you want to make all the solids hang out near the 8) isn't gonna work unless you're soft breaking and love clusters. As proof I offer up this: Ever see or hear of any top level pros (including Corey) trying to specify racking order for 8 ball? I mostly put this one in there because I hate playing people who sit there swapping balls around the rack. Drives me nuts, I hate waiting for rackers. Some of them try to alternate every stripe and solid thinking that makes a more "even" or "fair" spread. To those people, I say... tell me where the 13 ball will end up to within 1 foot. And be right no matter which breaking position I choose. Can't do it? Of course not. Duh!
If you get a butt that's not put together well, it won't transmit energy, it will trap it. Think of your handle 'butt' as a conductor of energy for the stroke. To me, my cue is part of my nervous system.[/COLOR]