Greatest of all time
- Thread starter Pangit
- Start date
Deja Vu..........................Tho Hoppe supposidly was more recognized in his era than Any other player.
I'm gonna step out on a limb and say the Fat Man
..........I assume we're talking just pool here...not billiards or snooker. I have to go with Mosconi, but there are some other candidates that a good case can be made for:
Nick Varner - Only player to win a World Championship in 14.1, 9-ball, Banks, 8-ball and one pocket....pretty damn strong.
Ralph Greenleaf - Dominated from 1919-1932 or so.
Luther Lassiter - Universally feared for a long time...no one wanted any part of him in 9 ball. Dominated the Johnston City tournaments.
Mike Sigel - Probably the winningest player in 14.1 and 9 ball put together from about 1976-1993. Reyes didn't start winning events until Sigel retired.
Efren Reyes - Like Varner plays all games at a high level, great gambler, great tournament player...probably the best or in the top 2 one pocket players ever and still a threat at 56 yrs old.
Earl Strickland - Best tournament 9 ball player since Lassiter. 5 U.S. Open titles plus 6 World Titles....very strong.
Harold Worst - Only played pool for a few years before his untimely death yet already as feared as Lassiter. And still improving at the time of his death.
Of todays players I really feel Pagulayan has what it takes to be an all-time great...maybe greatest...a ton of talent...a ton of heart...plays all games great, and already has many major titles at 32 yrs of age.
All that being said I still pick Mosconi because even in his 60's well after his retirement and past his prime he could play 14.1 better than anyone I've seen to this day. It was like he owned the table completely, not a doubt seemed to enter his head...like watching a prime Federer play tennis.
Nick Varner - Only player to win a World Championship in 14.1, 9-ball, Banks, 8-ball and one pocket....pretty damn strong.
Ralph Greenleaf - Dominated from 1919-1932 or so.
Luther Lassiter - Universally feared for a long time...no one wanted any part of him in 9 ball. Dominated the Johnston City tournaments.
Mike Sigel - Probably the winningest player in 14.1 and 9 ball put together from about 1976-1993. Reyes didn't start winning events until Sigel retired.
Efren Reyes - Like Varner plays all games at a high level, great gambler, great tournament player...probably the best or in the top 2 one pocket players ever and still a threat at 56 yrs old.
Earl Strickland - Best tournament 9 ball player since Lassiter. 5 U.S. Open titles plus 6 World Titles....very strong.
Harold Worst - Only played pool for a few years before his untimely death yet already as feared as Lassiter. And still improving at the time of his death.
Of todays players I really feel Pagulayan has what it takes to be an all-time great...maybe greatest...a ton of talent...a ton of heart...plays all games great, and already has many major titles at 32 yrs of age.
All that being said I still pick Mosconi because even in his 60's well after his retirement and past his prime he could play 14.1 better than anyone I've seen to this day. It was like he owned the table completely, not a doubt seemed to enter his head...like watching a prime Federer play tennis.
Not that im doubting Sigel, for the obvious reasons, but im really curious how you can say that reyes didnt win tournaments until he retired? here is a small list just up till 94
1992 International Nine-ball Classic
1992 World Nine-ball Open (Tokyo)
1990 World Cup (Taipei)
1988 PBA McDermott Masters Nine-ball
1986 Sands Regency Nine-ball Championship
1985 Sands Regency Nine-ball Championship
1985 Red's Nine-ball Open
1985 Tar Heel Open
1985 Willard's Open
1985 Chicago Billiard Cafe Open
These kinds of results can't be disputed...and who knows how many he won under his alias Cesar Morales. My vote for best of all time is still Reyes. He plays every single game, plays it at world class level and beyond his game ability hes humble about it...As far as new guard players I think in 10 years SVB will have to be on everybodies list, i mean just look at him, he just started playing one pocket and has already taken down frost, AND won a big one pocket event.
Wllie Mosconi
I don't know why people under estimate his skill Willie was not one dimensional he just excelled in the most popular game of the day. My grandfather played him numerous times some wins some losses and held his game in high regard (just not his personalitiy) It is well known that he gave a very very good nineball player Philidelphia Nicky the 5 ball playing 9ball and robbed him he just didn't miss. playing one pocket he ran 8 and out better then anyone. You gotta remember this guy ran 100+ balls everyday and there was an article that he ran 200+ balls in 12 straight exhibitions Willie could play race to 1000 straight pool he was unbeatable.
I don't know why people under estimate his skill Willie was not one dimensional he just excelled in the most popular game of the day. My grandfather played him numerous times some wins some losses and held his game in high regard (just not his personalitiy) It is well known that he gave a very very good nineball player Philidelphia Nicky the 5 ball playing 9ball and robbed him he just didn't miss. playing one pocket he ran 8 and out better then anyone. You gotta remember this guy ran 100+ balls everyday and there was an article that he ran 200+ balls in 12 straight exhibitions Willie could play race to 1000 straight pool he was unbeatable.
Larry Fine
Banned
Actually I have read, it was just the opposite, he came up on 5x10's, with 4 l/2" pockets, not 4x9's with 4 3/4", and ran 365 on them, nobody has topped that one.
The Louisville Lip is the self-proclaimed Greatest of All-Time!
I want to throw this out there for everyone to chew on...what characteristics do you find most important to define the greatest?
Most tournament wins? Most major wins? Most consecutive tournament wins? Most ball run? Longevity? Toughest competition? Equipment?
There is a lot to consider and as with all sports to much variation in the statistical comparisons.
For me, Efren is the greatest. Varner was and is tremendous, but he quit competing to early IMO to be chosen the greatest. Mosconi has the record and nobody has came close to touching it. That speaks volume to me. Efren took down the biggest payday (IPT) ever when some would say he was past his prime. That speaks volume too. There are several players who I just really didn't see or have enough knowledge of.
I want to throw this out there for everyone to chew on...what characteristics do you find most important to define the greatest?
Most tournament wins? Most major wins? Most consecutive tournament wins? Most ball run? Longevity? Toughest competition? Equipment?
There is a lot to consider and as with all sports to much variation in the statistical comparisons.
For me, Efren is the greatest. Varner was and is tremendous, but he quit competing to early IMO to be chosen the greatest. Mosconi has the record and nobody has came close to touching it. That speaks volume to me. Efren took down the biggest payday (IPT) ever when some would say he was past his prime. That speaks volume too. There are several players who I just really didn't see or have enough knowledge of.
I think NV should be in anyone's Top 10 all around. The guy just doesn't get enough recognition. This is a shame. Nick came to Vancouver about 20 years ago and did a exhibit. He's at least TOP 5 in ALL TIME GREAT AMBASSADORS of the sport.
Now number...sorry BlackJack maybe not that high...but close.
Nick (us Nick's get no respect...no respect at all) B
Now number...sorry BlackJack maybe not that high...but close.
Nick (us Nick's get no respect...no respect at all) B
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9BallPaul
Banned
Fascinating. Please cite a source.
For me it's Jose Parica. He was probably top 3 one pocket all time and maybe the best gambler in 9 ball we've seen in the US in the last 30 years including Efren. His tournament record doesn't resemble his gambling record. He spotted almost all of the people listed above in his era.
My gosh.... -____-
Maybe this should not be in the "pool" department, but I am going to say it because of all the kinds of billiards from around the world, nobody even DARED to mention about the wonder from down under: Mr. Walter Lindrum. He accomplished a form of billiards that consist of both carom and snooker and did it with succession. ::SMH::
Maybe this should not be in the "pool" department, but I am going to say it because of all the kinds of billiards from around the world, nobody even DARED to mention about the wonder from down under: Mr. Walter Lindrum. He accomplished a form of billiards that consist of both carom and snooker and did it with succession. ::SMH::
On any given Sunday?
i have a few tapes of sigel vs efren 9ball. u just have to watch them, i dont know, back in the late 80's sigel just had his number-- for whatever thats worth. i have one match where sigel plays bad and beats efren, efren misses straight in balls all over and hooks himself. we all know he "corrected" all this and is a great champ, but i truly believe if you talk about sheer will to win and ability to get there in any game (if he had wanted to), id go with sigel. i just loved his game and he had the tools with respect to shooting perhaps straighter than anyone and i think it has to do with his instincts and will to win. but, he focused on 9 ball and perhaps 14.1 as this was where the action was im sure.
i just wanted to add, i think the greatest compliment pool players pay sigel (without knowing it) is that he was so lucky. i just laugh everytime i hear this. the man played hi level competitive pool for 30 or so years, and he just kept getting lucky??! danny diliberto had the funniest comeback to somebody stating sigel isnt lucky, he said "if you dont think sigel is lucky, go fishing with him." i love that because it assumes fishing is a lucky sport-- its not... and a good fisherman will, yes, catch fish when you dont. i think sigel's "luck" was the residue of amazing instincts, good thinking and hard work.
i just wanted to add, i think the greatest compliment pool players pay sigel (without knowing it) is that he was so lucky. i just laugh everytime i hear this. the man played hi level competitive pool for 30 or so years, and he just kept getting lucky??! danny diliberto had the funniest comeback to somebody stating sigel isnt lucky, he said "if you dont think sigel is lucky, go fishing with him." i love that because it assumes fishing is a lucky sport-- its not... and a good fisherman will, yes, catch fish when you dont. i think sigel's "luck" was the residue of amazing instincts, good thinking and hard work.
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It's Mr Reyes, in my view. Even when we count him out, he shows us why we shouldn't, as he did in 2010 at Derby City, winning the nine ball event. It's rarely mentioned, but, for my money, Reyes is not only the greatest one pocket player ever but also the greatest eight ball player ever. He's a legend in every rotation game and has numerous titles in vitrually every discipline.
As amazing is that even in the games he doesn't play, he finds a way to be competitive. For example, he owns two top three finishes in the US Open 14.1 championships (1993 and 2000).
We may never see another like him. Efren is simply the best .... ever.
As amazing is that even in the games he doesn't play, he finds a way to be competitive. For example, he owns two top three finishes in the US Open 14.1 championships (1993 and 2000).
We may never see another like him. Efren is simply the best .... ever.
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In his autobiography "Willie Game" it states that in 1950 the championships switched to a 4 1/2' x 9' table with 5" pockets whereas before that they played on a 5' x 10' table with 4 1/2" pockets. I've seen a short clip of the 1925 World Championship between Greenleaf and Rudolph and at one point a pocket is show fairly close up and man did it look small, it didn't look like two balls could come close to fitting in it.
And for the record, Mike Sigel is the best all-around player I've ever seen.
Straight pool was the only tournament game back then. The only way Mosconi could have demonstrated skill in the other games was to gamble, and we know he looked down on gambling after he became a tournament player. However, we do know that Mosconi was good at 3C - I think he played in a world tournament once. Greenleaf did also.
But I vote for Efren too.
