Has anyone suggested Magic Rack to Allen Hopkins for SBE?

[KMRUNOUT]

Some of you guys seem to totally overlook the concept that with the Magic Rack, the rack *is the same* for both players. Saying it gives an advantage to the guy with the weaker break is not accurate. This is because you may think that making a ball is a "good break". The GOOD breakers know that you can play position on the break, and can spread the balls out just right. This requires very accurate execution. You need to hit the rack just right in order to *consistently* get a layout that is runable. If you ask me, the better player will do this better most times.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Black-Balled]

...with the Magic Rack, the rack *is the same* for both players. Saying it gives an advantage to the guy with the weaker break is not accurate.

...the better player will do...better most times.

KMRUNOUT

Agreed, not sure what the intent of the post above yours was, but I don't think is reads as it was supposed to...or else there is some 'splainin to do.

 

[itsfroze]

Some of you guys seem to totally overlook the concept that with the Magic Rack, the rack *is the same* for both players. Saying it gives an advantage to the guy with the weaker break is not accurate. This is because you may think that making a ball is a "good break". The GOOD breakers know that you can play position on the break, and can spread the balls out just right. This requires very accurate execution. You need to hit the rack just right in order to *consistently* get a layout that is runable. If you ask me, the better player will do this better most times.

KMRUNOUT

It increases the chances the weaker breaker will make balls on the break more consistently. I certainly did not overlook the fact that w/ the Magic Rack the rack was the same, I however thought that was so obvious that it was not worth mentioning. The best best player is always the best player even when you give a weaker player a handicap, however it does give the weaker player a better a chance to be competitive with the better player. That said the player with the strongest break will always have the strongest break, but then they don't need any help making balls in the first place now do they? It's the player who has the weaker break that sometimes doesn't get to shoot again after the break because they didn't pocket any balls. That's how even though the racks are the same for both it helps the weaker breaker. END OF STORY

 

[lukemindish]

Ok just got off the phone with someone that knows Allen Hopkins Jr. personally. Allen said that he is pretty sure they are using plastic Mueller racks :frown:

 

[Joe T]

It's not the rack that is a problem when we're talking about 9 ball its the diamond shape of it that is flawed, they just didn't see this coming 60yrs ago when they first racked'em up like that and we're to stubburn or set in ours ways to adjust. I understand that the MR makes it easier for everyone to make a ball on the break but that is because it does what it is suppose to do, gives a good rack. Prior to MRs and other good training devices it was torture to play anyone that could runout. Many of us that racked good were put at a big disadvantage. Do you know how bad it sucks playing a person your speed and they can't rack!!! I know you're thinking rack your own but then as soon as you make a ball the arm waving and frownng starts.

For 15yrs I have said that diamond shaped rack is flawed and we should play 10B. Thankfully we are playing more 10B and yes its easier to make a ball now in 10B due to good racking devices but at least its a skill based break not just a dead corner ball. If you want to continue to play 9B just agree to rack the 9 on the spot and break from the box and then whack away

As far as the best breakers go, I would gladly have a break contest with any of them, as long as I get to rack for both of us?

What do the non magic rack fans propose?

 

[allen_jr]

Ok just got off the phone with someone that knows Allen Hopkins Jr. personally. Allen said that he is pretty sure they are using plastic Mueller racks :frown:

I also told her that my dad was looking into exactly what type of rack is being used, and would let her know once I heard back. I'll answer it on facebook then as well

I'm fairly certain that the racks in the amateur events are just whatever Diamond supplies with the tables that we rent from them, or, as I thought also, the racks that Mueller donated.

I will suggest to my dad that we consider some type of standardized option so that everyone can be aware.

Hope this helps...

 

[trob]

GREAT breaks come from TIGHT racks.... Thats the short end of the story lol

It increases the chances the weaker breaker will make balls on the break more consistently. I certainly did not overlook the fact that w/ the Magic Rack the rack was the same, I however thought that was so obvious that it was not worth mentioning. The best best player is always the best player even when you give a weaker player a handicap, however it does give the weaker player a better a chance to be competitive with the better player. That said the player with the strongest break will always have the strongest break, but then they don't need any help making balls in the first place now do they? It's the player who has the weaker break that sometimes doesn't get to shoot again after the break because they didn't pocket any balls. That's how even though the racks are the same for both it helps the weaker breaker. END OF STORY

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

How many times when breaking in 9 ball and using a magic rack do you see the 9 ball stay almost exactly where it was in the rack? The answer is plenty of times.

In fact, it will remain there unless it is struck by another balls subsequent pass back toward the rack area.

The reason the 9 stays put unless a crossing ball contacts it is because it was a perfectly tight rack. That's what we want, right?

Tight racks can also be achieved with other types of racks (and even bare hands) but it requires much more skill and generally takes more time.

Magic rack gets my vote. :thumbup:

And what Joe Tucker wrote a few posts ago is spot on (or off-spot as he suggests).

Best,
Brian kc

 

[KMRUNOUT]

It increases the chances the weaker breaker will make balls on the break more consistently. I certainly did not overlook the fact that w/ the Magic Rack the rack was the same, I however thought that was so obvious that it was not worth mentioning. The best best player is always the best player even when you give a weaker player a handicap, however it does give the weaker player a better a chance to be competitive with the better player. That said the player with the strongest break will always have the strongest break, but then they don't need any help making balls in the first place now do they? It's the player who has the weaker break that sometimes doesn't get to shoot again after the break because they didn't pocket any balls. That's how even though the racks are the same for both it helps the weaker breaker. END OF STORY

I like how you put "end of story" there, because that really highlights how you didn't read my whole post. My main point was that simply making a ball on the break is NOT all there is to good breaking. Consistently getting a shot AFTER the break is equally if not more important. My contention is that the stronger *PLAYER* has the capacity should they choose to think about it, to more consistently get a good shot after the break. I agree with you that the less skilled *breaker* will have an easier time making balls. But I can almost guarantee that in a short race to 5 alternating break format, the better player is MORE likely to win with the magic rack than without. This is because the skills that back up their break become EMPHASIZED with the use of the magic rack.

Try not to fixate on the first sentence of a post. There was actually more to the story. On my end I could have worded things to make it more clear that my entire post illustrated a point that some people seemed to be overlooking. I thought it was so obvious that it wasn't worth mentioning though...

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Ok just got off the phone with someone that knows Allen Hopkins Jr. personally. Allen said that he is pretty sure they are using plastic Mueller racks :frown:

Thanks. I tried calling today but got voicemail. That is what they used most years. Its ok, it just means the guy racking has to put in a bit more effort.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I also told her that my dad was looking into exactly what type of rack is being used, and would let her know once I heard back. I'll answer it on facebook then as well

I'm fairly certain that the racks in the amateur events are just whatever Diamond supplies with the tables that we rent from them, or, as I thought also, the racks that Mueller donated.

I will suggest to my dad that we consider some type of standardized option so that everyone can be aware.

Hope this helps...

Awesome Allen, thanks. I think it might be a nice experiment at least for one year to try the Magic Rack. I think one of the biggest advantages would be the time savings. And of course the fairness of play. Like I said previously, you would have to make the players responsible for turning them in after the match, because they would be stolen left and right. Or hell, raise the price of the tourney by $5 or so and GIVE everyone that enters a Magic Rack! That would be a cool concept.

Thanks for the input,

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

How many times when breaking in 9 ball and using a magic rack do you see the 9 ball stay almost exactly where it was in the rack? The answer is plenty of times.

In fact, it will remain there unless it is struck by another balls subsequent pass back toward the rack area.

The reason the 9 stays put unless a crossing ball contacts it is because it was a perfectly tight rack. That's what we want, right?

Tight racks can also be achieved with other types of racks (and even bare hands) but it requires much more skill and generally takes more time.

Magic rack gets my vote. :thumbup:

And what Joe Tucker wrote a few posts ago is spot on (or off-spot as he suggests).

Best,
Brian kc

Totally agree 100% with everything you say. I wouldn't mind a bit if the Amateur Open switched to 10 ball with magic rack. Or at very least stress at the players meeting that the rackers really need to do a good job, and shouldn't get all bent out of shape if they are asked to re-rack.

Good input!

KMRUNOUT

 

[SKILLZELITE]

Magic Rack is the Truth..

I was skeptical on "The Magic Rack",,An associate of mine, had a bunch of them, he gave me a set for free,, and I must say they absolutely work.. It does take a little extra time to set up the rack, but in the end, the balls are guaranteed to be tight...........

For the record, I also own a Delta 13 rack, and I don't think its any better than a standard wooden ,or plastic rack.. Though it does have a lifetime warranty ,and is very durable,, but in the end its a glorified rack.. The magic rack puts the balls together better than any other rack I ever tried.....

 

[ARROWCRUSHER]

Bill Westley Racks

On the site and sponsors it says Bill Westley racks,,so I take from it they may be useing those wooden racks,,..its on the media files link on the main page...im not a computer person or I would paste it up....lol << ED

I posted it before its right on the media file section along with the other sponsors. So I may be willing to bet that this is what they are going to use.,,, It's right in front of you if you click the media files link section....

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I posted it before its right on the media file section along with the other sponsors. So I may be willing to bet that this is what they are going to use.,,, It's right in front of you if you click the media files link section....

I highly doubt they will use these. They appear to be really nice custom wood racks. I don't see them getting 180 of them for this tourney. The $2 Mueller rack is more likely, and works adequately for a regular triangle.

We shall see though!

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I was skeptical on "The Magic Rack",,An associate of mine, had a bunch of them, he gave me a set for free,, and I must say they absolutely work.. It does take a little extra time to set up the rack, but in the end, the balls are guaranteed to be tight...........

For the record, I also own a Delta 13 rack, and I don't think its any better than a standard wooden ,or plastic rack.. Though it does have a lifetime warranty ,and is very durable,, but in the end its a glorified rack.. The magic rack puts the balls together better than any other rack I ever tried.....

Agree about the Magic Rack. Disagree about the Delta 13. I find that with a quality set of balls, there is a noticeable difference over some standard wooden racks. I personally believe that the Delta 13 is by far the best standard triangle. The balls fit VERY well in the rack, which is a huge part of getting them all frozen...especially in a 8 ball rack. IMHO of course.

KMRUNOUT

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Agree about the Magic Rack. Disagree about the Delta 13. I find that with a quality set of balls, there is a noticeable difference over some standard wooden racks. I personally believe that the Delta 13 is by far the best standard triangle. The balls fit VERY well in the rack, which is a huge part of getting them all frozen...especially in a 8 ball rack. IMHO of course.

KMRUNOUT

I agree the Delta is the best triangle out there. The problems arise (with all triangles) when the balls are not perfect or the table bed doesn't want to cooperate.

 

[trob]

i remember a few years ago the expo supplied the accu rack at every table. anyone remember that..people hated them lol

 

[allen_jr]

I posted it before its right on the media file section along with the other sponsors. So I may be willing to bet that this is what they are going to use.,,, It's right in front of you if you click the media files link section....

Bill Westley's racks will be used in the Pro Arena because they are a beautiful and well constructed rack. They will not be used throughout the Amateur Arenas.

He does make some very nice racks, if anyone wants to see, visit his website: http://www.billwestleyracks.com/

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Bill Westley's racks will be used in the Pro Arena because they are a beautiful and well constructed rack. They will not be used throughout the Amateur Arenas.

He does make some very nice racks, if anyone wants to see, visit his website: http://www.billwestleyracks.com/

So then, what will us lowly amateurs be using?

Just messing with you, Allen Jr.

To me the MR would be great but having attended and competed in a number of sbe's, and seeing how it tends to be a bit chaotic I can appreciate that it would be tough, IMO, to keep track of the MR's. As in plenty would disappear. Cheap, and much less desirable as they are, it would be far less likely for anyone to want to steal a Mueller rack.

Last year they used those ones that looked like a Century 21 real estate sign, and were almost as big. Nobody was gonna walk off with one of those without being noticed. :grin:

Best,
Brian kc