Hear ye, Hear ye: BCA Takes Over Ranking for American Pros

Below are the current board members who are affected by getting directly involved with the sport. The BCA/Mfg side gets most all it profits from the home industry, and for many years now has not embraced the 'player' side. With the involvement of the below directors, change is in the air, and is giving the sport its due...whats ironic, if the board in the past embraced the idea of what currently is going on with Viking/Janis they would all be more profitable. When I worked at the BCA with John Lewis and ran the All American Tour, I found a way to save the BCA over $25,000 a year, HOW...give room members $1,000 towards an event providing they could prove adequate advertising in their local market, but I was told "we can't do that" give our members money, yet the BCA would easily put Full Page Color ads in the P&B and BD mags ($$$$$$$$$$$) to advertise the BCA tour, beg for product from mfg, create all the flyers, do all the mail outs and more, but was not willing to save dollars, help their room members and develop an amateur tour with structure, I'm glad Mike Janis has kept at it, Gordy too.


Billiard Congress of America: 2007-2008 Board of Directors:

Renee Poehlman (V)
2nd Vice President
American Poolplayers Association

Nick Alexander (RO), Clicks Billiards, 214.521.7001

Mark Griffin (V), BCA Pool League, 702.719.7665

Barry Hart (V), Viking Cue Mfg., Inc., 608.271.5155

Jim McDermott (RO), Magoo's Billiards, 918.663.3364

Bob Radford (V), Antique Billiard Supply, 815.965.7665
 
Two quick comments:

1) Whether anyone likes it or not the BCA is one of the very few names anyone recognizes outside of the Pool cognoscenti. It makes absolute sense for them to have an official Pro ranking list if we want it to gain any kind of public recognition.

2) Won't the IPT's almost directly imminent super-duper multi-million dollar 2007/2008/20xx? tour make the BCA, UPA, WPA etc. irrelevant?
In all seriousness it seems to me that the IPT tour in 2006 effectively cut the legs out from under the UPA. I'd speculate this BCA land-grab is part of the fall-out from that.
 
The UPA's reply

I think they meant 'meddling' instead of 'medaling'....:o

PRESS RELEASE
May 5, 2008
For Immediate Release
Contact:
UPA


UPA Players Take Stand Against WPA
United States Professional Poolplayers Association Takes Stand Against World-Pool Billiard Association

PHOENIX, AZ (May 5, 2008) - The United States Professional Poolplayers Association (the "UPA") announced today that the organization and its players plan to take a stand against the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA) effective immediately due to its "medaling" within the United States men's professional pool scene.

The UPA, as an organization, officially received word just hours ago that a press release was being provided to media from the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) concerning a change in ranking and player communication overview. In the press release by the BCA, it stated that the decision to "manage the men's professional rankings system and player communications duties" was to be performed by the BCA.

The President of the UPA, Frank Alvarez, commented that "it is regrettable that I was only informed of this hours before the release. I sit on the BCA/WPA committee and this topic somehow was not presented to the very player's association that is directly involved. The UPA is officially recognized by the BCA as the 'governing body' and yet we were not consulted on this matter nor informed by the BCA of any such release. Obviously, we will need time to get to the heart of the matter and deal with it properly. The BCA is a trade organization and not a player's association so this not only undermines, but underestimates the wishes of our Touring Professionals. It is apparent that the UPA membership as a whole is not being treated equally or with the same respect as its counter part the Women's Professional Billiard Association (WPBA). Understandably, the player's are outraged and we believe this matter will do nothing but impair U.S. pool if not resolved in the near future. It is my position that the will of the UPA is simply the will of the players."

In response to both the BCA's recent decision and the behavior of the WPA, effective immediately, UPA players will not plan to attend the 2008 Qatar World Open 9-Ball Championships currently scheduled for June 27-July 5, 2008.

Some of the top names in the men's professional pool scene have provided statements on this issue as follows:

"I take it as a personal offense that any association would seek to undermine our ranking system. We are the players in the U.S. and I will support my country's association. If the WPA wants American players, then I am certain that we will be shown the respect that we deserve from WPA representatives." - Rodney Morris, UPA Lead Representative

"This is our tour and our ranking system. No one has the right to take this away from us. Honestly, I am shocked and disappointed that we are treated with such disrespect." - Tony Robles, UPA Representative

"In my opinion, we have the strongest ranking system in the world and we are not about to let that go." - Tony Crosby, UPA Representative

"I'm in full support of the UPA - I believe in what it stands for and that the power should be in the hands of our player association." - Shane Van Boening, UPA Touring Professional
 
I guess it makes you wonder whom the UPA hasn't pissed off.

You only have 4, oh thats thats right 4 events, and you have have a conflict with a world class event?!?


Crazy


You're putting your constituents that would participate in that world class event in quite a pickle.

make more $ or make no $
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
Folks,

You might wish to wait until you see the details before making assumptions. AZB, working with the BCA, has devised a points system that you just might like.
Click to expand...
Jerry, anything that you've been involved in always turned out to be of top quality. And AZB's input will be interesting to watch. I think most poster's comments here are based upon their suspicions of the BCA, along with the BCA's questionable history of support for the pro players. Personally I'll be curious to see the ranking methods y'all have devised.

Doc
 
BCA needs to put their money where their mouth is!!

Recently Mike Janis went to the BCA with a proposal to start a pro tour and they voted against it. Now they are getting involved in matters that directly affect touring pros, yet they do absolutely nothing to promote pro pool. If you read the statement on the BCA website it states that: ?The objective was to organize the players and promote the sport through qualifying tournaments at the local, regional and national levels in Straight Pool and 3-Cushion billiards (the popular competitive disciplines of the era) and recognize those champions.?

Now only weeks later the BCA is calling the shots. Who are they to speak up when they do nothing to support the needs of billiards finest players in America?? If they don't like the ranking system of the UPA then they need to start a tour that does what the BCA set out to do in the beginning and recognize our champions and reward them accordingly.
 
CaptiveBred said:
Does the BCA even mean anything to anybody? I'm not even sure what they do. As far as I know, they are just a group of profiteers...

Its kind of funny how these organizations think they are "official" :) Like they're the NBA, NFL or some other powerful group...


If I had the money, I'd bury them all...
Click to expand...

exactly, bunch of self serving twits imo
 
jay helfert said:
Just so that everyone is aware, the UPA does NOT support this decision by the WPA to turn the rankings over to the BCA. That little fact has been left out of their nicely worded press release.
Click to expand...

So this is a power move by the BCA.
 
gulfportdoc said:
Jerry, anything that you've been involved in always turned out to be of top quality. And AZB's input will be interesting to watch. I think most poster's comments here are based upon their suspicions of the BCA, along with the BCA's questionable history of support for the pro players. Personally I'll be curious to see the ranking methods y'all have devised.

Doc
Click to expand...

I too will be curious to se the ranking methods that have been devised but I'm even more curious to know if AZB has made a move to undermine the UPA. This appears to me to be the case. Am I missing something?

I've been extremely disappointed in the BCA ever since I became aware of their apparent complete indifference to the pro pool scene and it's difficult for me to see why they are coming forward to take of the ranking system. Or, has AZB and the BCA cooked a deal where is it really AZB that is taking over the ranking system.

I don't mean to accuse anyone of anything. I'm just suspicious and wondering why power grabs are being made.
 
rackmsuckr said:
I think they meant 'meddling' instead of 'medaling'....:o
Click to expand...

gotta love spell check or auto correct - just when you think all is well, Word gets you every time :eek:
 
Couldn't agree more. The BCA is a joke. The last email I got from them I could find out the results of their survey of pool rooms and retail dealers if I send them $250.

Guess what BCA, I don't need to see your survey, I already know the answer. The state of the sport and the industry sucks, and the BCA hasn't done a damn thing about it except turn a blind eye! For that I need to pay them $250? What a joke.
 
I have a question. Why does the president of the BCA keep changing so often?

How many full-time employees does the BCA organization have?

If the goal of the BCA is to help industry members and not American professional players, I think they need to step away from the plate.

I believe the BCA -- Billiards Congress of AMERICA -- Open should be a tournament reserved for American players only. Half of this field is reserved today for international players.

Since Mike Janis is trying so hard to make things happen for American pool, I think Mike Janis should be in charge of running the BCA Open from here on in, rather than having them subcontract it out.

I am beginning to think the Viking Tour should be the new American professional pool players association, to include the ranking system. It is the largest regional tour in existence, and Mike Janis has a designated track record for success.

The BCA seems to consist largely of pool print media members. At least for the BCA Hall of Fame Committee members I looked at several years ago, the voting members were all pool magazine writers, publishers, and editors. Is the pool media industry members the ones running the BCA today?

Does anybody have a handle on who or what the BCA is all about?

JAM
 
Not meddling but just sees a similarity to what just went on in the Philippines. It looks like this is a product from the shockwave felt by the WPA from what happened here. WPA seems to be trying to stop the landslide that we started. LOL

There is a saying though "he who holds the gold makes the rules" and in pool the players are the gold so don't let anybody say otherwise.

ER<<<Did we start something here or what?
 
Williebetmore said:
JAM,
Hmmmmmm....

Is this the same BCA that totally abdicated it's responsibility over the past 60 years to grow the game??? Let's see....no straight pool championships, no men's pro tour, no varsity sports programs at any level, little if any televised men's pool, sold off the amateur leagues. My initial thought is they are doing it out of self-interest; but I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Yep, same guys. They have spent countless hours and money on trying to make pool an Olympic sport. We knew 20 years ago there was virtually no chance of this happening. And guess what, they are no further today than they were 20 years ago. Talk about spinning your wheels.

This is an association that has ample funds to support events (like pro tournaments) and they continue to put on one low paying tourney a year. I petitioned them to increase the prize money to 100K per division several years ago and was soundly rebuffed. It would have required an additional $40,000 in funding from a room full of millionaires. I even offered to put in the first $1,000 out of my pocket. They turned a deaf ear. I withdrew my membership the following year.
 
jay helfert said:
Yep, same guys. They have spent countless hours and money on trying to make pool an Olympic sport. We knew 20 years ago there was virtually no chance of this happening. And guess what, they are no further today than they were 20 years ago. Talk about spinning your wheels.

This is an association that has ample funds to support events (like pro tournaments) and they continue to put on one low paying tourney a year. I petitioned them to increase the prize money to 100K per division several years ago and was soundly rebuffed. It would have required an additional $40,000 in funding from a room full of millionaires. I even offered to put in the first $1,000 out of my pocket. They turned a deaf ear. I withdrew my membership the following year.
Click to expand...

What I don't get is how many employees this organization has, the monies it takes to keep these people employed, and how much the BCA invests in pool. It is shameful. Shameful, I say.

BCA Staff Contacts:
Rob Johnson - Chief Executive Officer
Karl Kirsch - Managing Director
Robin Dahlen - Associate Managing Director

Trish Chavez - Marketing Director
Kari Freeland - Membership Coordinator
Melissa Cowan - Coordinator of Trade Services
Lauren di Scipio - Art Director

These BCA employees earn an annual salary, and American pro players are fighting for crumbs at the BCA Open, an invitational tournament that reserves half of the field for INTERNATIONAL players.

Billiard Congress of America? What have they done for American pool lately?! Somebody please inform me.

JAM
 
Let's get our facts straight

Jay,

You and I are old friends and see eye-to-eye on many things, including the sad state of American pool. We have seen together how the game is growing overseas and shrinking here. But it is my belief that you have some mistaken ideas. It is not my desire or job to defend the BCA. But I do not want misconceptions floating around out there that make a mountain out of a molehill. Your statement about a "roomful of millionaires" is very misleading. The majority of the BCA membership is far from millionaires. Look at the number of rooms going belly-up all around the country. Even major manufacturers like AMF have been forced into bankruptcy.

Brunswick makes (last I checked)about 97% of their income off of selling boats, not pool tables. Unfortunately for American pool, sponsoring pool tournaments has not proven to be a boost for business. Take a look at Predator, one of the biggest sponsors out there. They provide us with a large 10-Ball and Straight pool event every year and kick in to regional events and other tournaments year-around. I am not privy to their expenditures but I know it extends into handsome 6-figure amounts. In return the fans of the game criticize them at every turn. When was the last time you saw a thread thanking Predator (or any other sponsor) for their support of the game? It occurs from time to time, but pool fans in no way support the sponsors of pro events the way that NASCAR and NFL fans do.

Instead, they complain about how little money there is in pool and look to the industry with sad eyes. For the reason that there is no money in the game they actually need to look no farther than the nearest mirror. When all the sponsors get for their efforts is sand kicked in their face we cannot really expect sponsorship to expand.

That being the case, we do not expect American pool to provide great incomes for our players at least until our economy turns around and the downtrend in American billiards is reversed. So American players need to be allowed to participate in the rich events overseas which have purses far greater than the ones commonly found here. The BCA, despite its faults, has taken a positive step here to make certain that our players can take advantage of the cash offered off of our shores and to help the game continue to grow in those parts of the world where it has the ability to do so.
When the UPA sanctioned an event that prevented Americans from competing in the World 8-Ball event, they shot themselves in the foot. On top of that, they sanctioned an event at that time that has now wound up stiffing some of the players, sponsors and a certain Mr. Helfert.

So both the UPA and the BCA have some work to do to make things improve in our neighborhood. The UPA might strive to become a valid players union and take the time to make certain that tournaments escrow all prize monies before allowing any UPA players to compete in them. And both the BCA and the UPA might work to mend the currently tattered fences so that the American game can get out of neutral. This current power play of boycotting the event in Qatar is truly cutting off the nose to spite the face. Here is a payday that is many times the normal amount seen here with a field that Americans are capable of beating, a tournament that has NOTHING to do with the current conflict, and the UPA decides to hold their players back from competing in it? Why? This does not hurt the BCA, the WPA or anyone else except the very players the UPA is saying they are protecting.

The BCA decided to take back control of the rankings and the player communications because the UPA has not done a stellar job of realizing that pool is an international game that requires a co-operative worldwide effort to succeed. Can this rift be healed and can the American game get back on-track? Sure. But it will not begin with boycotts, power-plays and name calling. Somebody out there needs to begin to realize that America needs to present a unified, dedicated face to the world and cease this nitty crap of "I'm gonna take my ball and go home". Sheez. Look around. Pool is international and the Americans deserve to be a part of it.
 
Jerry Forsyth said:
...Pool is international and the Americans deserve to be a part of it.
Click to expand...

Very well-written post, Jerry, with a lot of food for thought. You must be a writer or something! ;)

Pool is international for sure, with most of the lucrative events now occurring in Asian-Pacific Islander countries.

However, it used to be the other way around. Do you remember when they all used to flock to American shores to compete here? I do not want to see American pool outsourced to other countries.

I understand where you're coming from about the sponsors needing to be thanked as opposed to having sand kicked in their faces, but another point worthy of mention is the amount of monies American professional players -- the ones who don't have sponsors or stakehorses -- have expended to attend these events. Without American pool players, there ain't going to be American pool.

Our household has spent $175,000-plus in 5 years on the American-only tournament trail. I cannot imagine how expensive it is to go overseas and play pool.

The BCA or somebody needs to bring pool back to America, not have America go overseas to play pool. Of course, there can be and should be a happy medium. To date, I'm not very impressed with the WPA sticking their hand out to get greased with sanctioning fees. What have they done for American pool lately?

Industry members may be starving, but please understand that professional pool players are hurting as well. The existing lot of professional players in the United States is dwindling. Who can afford it?
The BCA needs to invest more effort into American pool. They are, after all, the Billiard Congress of America.

Thanks for your thoughts, Jerry. I really appreciate you taking the time to contribute some great insights. :)

JAM
 
Jam

I could not possibly agree with you more! It cost far too much for too little return for American players to ply their trade. And I know you grasp the point that we cannot encourage sponsorship by condemning the very parties from whom we seek said sponsorship. A concerted effort is needed. Sponsors need to be convinced that sponsorship pays off. Folks who are going to buy a table in the next year need to sit down and write the BCA and copy the table companies and say that they will be buying either a Diamond or a Brunswick because Diamond supports men's pool and Brunswick sponsors the ladies.

Perhaps promoters could contact the BCA members and give them an affordable way to sponsor their events. A main arena table with sponsor banners around it is one way. Mentioning sponsors in posts on this forum is another. Players who actually work for their sponsors and invite fans to hit a few balls with their sponsor's cue is another. If the sport makes sponsorship attractive, then sponsors will show up. It is a free market society (thank goodness) and value flows to where profits can be made. Sponsorship is business, not charity, and it is earned rather demanded. Also, I speak to billiard companies every day and many of them tell me they have never been approached about sponsorship. With our current economy, now may not be the time, but when it turns around a professional marketing plan would be a big plus for pro pool.

It must all start with the fans. They must demand that this game they love be televised (as it is everywhere overseas) and show the networks that they will watch and support the sponsors. Charlie Williams has found great success overseas because the fans watch it on TV and the sponsors want to reach those fans. It is a tough sell here because the networks will not pay for media rights to pool. But the women have bitten the bullet and provided their players with exposure that has continued to provide those players with a tour. Perhaps the men should consider a similar sacrifice. So long as they hold tournaments in the dark in front of a handful of fans the game is in trouble. Sure, the TV costs deplete the prize funds now, but at least it gives sponsors a reason to come out of the woodwork. And it gives the future a shot at success. The players must support the sponsors as well with their efforts and must support those who support them. We will get nowhere so long as threats, intimidation and screaming is favored over co-operation and team-building. We would do well to replace arrogance with a team spirit.
 
Jerry

I'd like to start off by saying that I respect and admire your efforts immensely. You an I have spoke about the sad state of pool many times and we agree on just about everything.

Please know that I could not care less about rankings or anything else. The system is corrupted enough at this point that no matter who is in charge of it, there are those that will bring dishonesty, favoritism and everything else back into the picture. We also have people within our little world that like to build their own personal empires at the expense of others. I'm not *****ing about it or pointing fingers at anyone, I'm just pointing out the elephant in the room. It's because of that elephant that we have no money in our sport, and no respect from anybody that really matters.

Pool is going through a major transformation right now. Nobody gives a crap about tournaments. 3 years ago at a UPA event, I remember telling you that Action Report style matchups were the way of the future for the game of pool. I remember many people telling me that I was crazy - but here we are - and that is the direction of our sport.

Tournament pool has never and will never sell to the mainstream public. Nobody has the patience to sit and watch it. Nobody wants to invest money at it. We're still trying to sell the same product that we were selling 35 years ago. Nobody is interested. We should be smart enough to realize that we need to reinvent ourselves, however we have factions within the system that are quite comfortable with the way things are.

Anybody directing their energy into tournament style pool is slowing down the natural progression and evolution of professional pool. Plain and simple.

We should look at what is working and who is making it work (Mark Cantrill, TAR, etc) and invest our time, energy, and money in that direction. I have spoken to a lot of people that like the ideas we are coming up with to revolutionize our game.

What you are reading in this thread is the great divide within our game. This split has to occur - it is just part of the natural evolution and growth process. Certain people (those unwilling to accept and move with the change) are going to fall through the cracks. That happened to me during the IPT in 2005-2006. I was lucky enough to come out on the right end of that one - I'm still here and I am still planning on doing big things in an honest way with good people.

In this thread, I've read a lot of statements in support of the UPA. In 2005 I was loyal to the UPA. I wanted to help out and use the UPA as a vehicle to help guide our sport in the right direction. I believed in their leadership. I believed in their vision.

When a new tour came in, I chose to support the UPA instead of supporting a competitor, the IPT. The IPT was an organization that was founded to destroy the UPA and everything it stood for. Within a few weeks I sat at home watching everybody from the UPA - to include those in positions of power - join the IPT. Why would they do that? I was the sole hold out. Why was nobody on my side?

I asked myself that question for 2 years. Then one day it hit me in the face like freight train on rocket fuel - they were in trouble and jumped into the nearest lifeboat.

The UPA has no money, no power, and the IPT era showed them that they will lose all of their players to a tour that has money, leadership, and brains behind it. If the UPA was such a hot commodity, if they believed in their own vision and business model, then why was everybody playing in the IPT while I stayed home - not even supported by the people I was being loyal to? Today, my loyalty to the UPA is worth the same as the amount of money I received from Kevin Trudeau. You do the math, Frank.

All I am trying to say to everybody is that we have to STOP going backwards and sideways... we need to move forward. Forward in our thinking - forward in our approach, and forward in who we give control of things. Find people that have clear, concise goals and are willing to fight every single minute of every day to bring our game to prominence.

I have to honestly say that I can tell that the BCA is really trying. After 35 years of slamming the door in our faces, I can finally sense that we're allowed to communicate with them through the screen door. Its a start. Just don't sell them tournament pool, or we will be stuck here having this same conversation 30 years from now.
 
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