HELP...please

I don't do too badly on these types of shots, but my method is far less than scientific. I just tell myself to cut the ball a little more than common sense is tellin' me to :rolleyes: . Some method, huh :embarrassed2: ?

And by the way Randy, I have the utmost respect for you for the fact that although you are a BCA certified Master Instructor, you still have the desire to learn MORE about how to pocket balls. And to ask us lesser players (some of us anyway) our opinion is mindboggling to me. You are truly a lover of the game. Much luck and more knowledge to you is my Christmas wish for you!!!

Maniac
 
throw!! I am for some reason very comfortable with these shots. I think in these situations instinctive ability really helps. If they are that close I line up based on feel and then procede with spin. Some people have said to raise up to see it better, but for me it is just that I am jacked up to get more sidespin; not the same as a masse exactly but just outside spin. This isn't a proven or even a practical method...its just what works for me.
 
Yes I do I'll pm you....

randyg said:
Is there any poster here that could help me.

I'm looking for a system to aim a certain shot:

When the cueball is very close to the object ball and I have to cut it to pocket it. Anyone here have a system that really works for every close shot????? This may be my toughest shot.....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...


I'll pm you with a way to shoot that shot.

Jaden
 
SpiderWebComm said:
All I do is CTE and pivot it in... or 90/half or 90/reverse90 and the ball goes.

Either way, the ball goes.

I don't know too much about SAM, but if it's the boss... why don't you use SAM to make it? Just curious.
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I use S.A.M all the time. I'm looking for a different method...thanks...randyg
 
I use the WHOT system. I stand up straight where I can see what I am doing and hit the cue ball with a semi-masse. I do this cutting or banking when the balls are very close together. Don't remember if anyone ever showed me this or I picked it up somewhere along the line. I don't miss too many of these.
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What he said.I shoot these all jacked up....waaay past jump shot angle and very close to,if not exactly masse angle.These are pretty high pecentage shots for me as I "see" them well for some reason.I have no idea why.

I'm good enough at these that more people then I would care to count over the years have asked me for the key to pulling it off.I don't really know the answer fwiw so I'm not much help.Perhaps part of it is in the fact that when I'm crazy elevated over the shot I can see the angle without question.I dunno.....but I don't mind playing these shots at alll.

Try shooting em all jacked up in masse mode.
 
Randy, I'll try to explain a method that really works well for me. It's much harder to explain properly than to execute.

You stand back from the shot and get down so that your head is very low onto the same 2 1/4 inch plane the balls are on. You don't have to be cueing the CB at this point.

Close one eye, leaving your dominant eye open. (This in effect turns those two balls into 2 dimensional circles.) Only shadow from the surrounding light and your brain, that is used to seeing in 3 dimensions has you believing you are still seeing 3 dimensional balls.

Move your body side to side until you see light between the two balls and the circles are no longer overlapping each other. Then bring your head back just until the light disappears.

This is the line of aim for your cue stick. You can now double check this line of aim by laying the tip of your cue stick on the table at the cue ball and resighting that spot where the light just stops shining through your sight line.

Now look at the line of your cue stick, and shoot the cue ball through that line. Applying inside english will also help and with the balls being so close together you won't have to worry about the inside english throwing your shot the wrong way.

Stroke confidently through the line that you sighted where the light stopped shining between balls. You'll be over cutting these shots in no time :thumbup:
 
I saw an asian pro player look directly overhead of the two balls (cue ball and object ball) to see where to hit when close together. Of course in relation to the pocket. I have used it a few times and it worked pretty dang well. You get a very good idea as to where you need to hit the objectball without any visualization problems from the cue ball.

Try it and let us know what you think.

Dave
 
randyg said:
... When the cueball is very close to the object ball and I have to cut it to pocket it. Anyone here have a system that really works for every close shot????? This may be my toughest shot.....SPF=randyg
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Well, yes, at least for a start. See the link posted by scottjen26 above. You'll have to provide your own corrections for throw as mentioned in the article.
 
Dave...Mostly because of the close proximity of both balls. This shot would be a SAM 5 or 6...which is such a thin hit, that it is largely a low probability shot, for many players...and the recommendation would be to look at alternatives (in certain competitive situations), such as playing safe. Where SAM is the boss, is for SAM 1, 2, 3, and 4 shots...which Randyg already knows. I did shoot some of these shots (using CTE), being directed by Hal Houle, last summer at his house (and they went right in)...but they were not close proximity shots like Randy is talking about. Myself, I shoot those shots like others have said...with a higher stance, and 'edge to edge' aiming.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

SpiderWebComm said:
I don't know too much about SAM, but if it's the boss... why don't you use SAM to make it? Just curious.
Click to expand...
 
randyg said:
Is there any poster here that could help me.

I'm looking for a system to aim a certain shot:

When the cueball is very close to the object ball and I have to cut it to pocket it. Anyone here have a system that really works for every close shot????? This may be my toughest shot.....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...

I know a way.... it works sweet.....I'll teach you how to string up a dilapidated 5 balls zig zag combo


serious it works.. all the time


but.....


if you can't swing your stick straight.... my system isn't going to help you....


:thumbup: :thumbup:
 
I meet with my sparring partner Claude today at CLICKS Billiards. I will try each and every suggestion and return my findings to the forum.

If there are 50 million pool players then there must be 50 million personal versions of this situation.

Thanks for all the replies...Stay tuned...SPF=randyg
 
If you're really close quarters and a THIN cut, aim about 1/2 tip overlap between the CB and OB (with your cue aimed through the overlap, like a skewer) and pivot to center ball....and continue about 1/4 tip (just a little) beyond center.

When you stroke, let the cue slide in your hand to ensure you dont steer because it feels as though you're going to miss, but you won't.

...just a little RonnieVfromNYC knowledge there.

I can't think of a better way to make this classification of shots.
 
Dave...I can PROMISE you that this is never gonna happen. Light grip...yes...but let the cue slide...NOPE! Not necessary, and just makes the process more complicated than it needs to be. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

SpiderWebComm said:
When you stroke, let the cue slide in your hand to ensure you dont steer because it feels as though you're going to miss, but you won't.
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Scott Lee said:
Dave...I can PROMISE you that this is never gonna happen. Light grip...yes...but let the cue slide...NOPE! Not necessary, and just makes the process more complicated than it needs to be. jmo

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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I would never argue with you, you're right - it's not required.

It does, however, eliminate variation and potential human error. More complicated, yes. Worth the effort to master, definitely.

But, as you said - not required.

Sliding/throwing isn't for beginners. I'm not a super player, but for me personally, I couldn't imagine not sliding it.

Edit: I just realized I'm suggesting something you teach against. My thought is....the cue will stroke through the CB twice as straight through the air without your hand on it vs with your hand on it. It's only my humble opinion.
 
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Absolutely correct! We want to ELIMINATE variables, not add more (i.e.: how FAR should the cue slide?). However, with poolplayers, one size does not fit all, as we all know (perhaps the "different strokes for different folks" idea). Most players that I have worked with, who let the cue slide, were unaware of it (or didn't do it all the time), making it something that was not consistent. What I want for my students, is to improve their overall consistency, with a better "process" of how to use your body and mind, to develop THEIR perfect setup and delivery system. My concepts are based on letting each student figure out, for themselves (with a little information and direction), what is the best process for them. That way, they have a vested interest in putting in the disciplined practice that will yield long-term positive results.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

SpiderWebComm said:
Edit: I just realized I'm suggesting something you teach against. My thought is....the cue will stroke through the CB twice as straight through the air without your hand on it vs with your hand on it. It's only my humble opinion.
Click to expand...
 
randyg said:
Is there any poster here that could help me.

I'm looking for a system to aim a certain shot:

When the cueball is very close to the object ball and I have to cut it to pocket it. Anyone here have a system that really works for every close shot????? This may be my toughest shot.....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...

Hope this helps you. Here is my suggestion. Try reversing the SAM Sys Instead of thinking of the numbers projected to the OB, reverse it and think of the SAM numbers on the CB. When you find the correct number on the cue ball, this is the spot that has to hit the OB. Standing further back to view the set up if also very helpful and look at the shot from the CB side and then look at it from the OB side. :thumbup:
 
randyg said:
Is there any poster here that could help me.

I'm looking for a system to aim a certain shot:

When the cueball is very close to the object ball and I have to cut it to pocket it. Anyone here have a system that really works for every close shot????? This may be my toughest shot.....SPF=randyg
Click to expand...

On a super thin cut shot I always use inside english. A superior player may ask, where in the hell did you come up with that idea? :D Another WW original I might add.

Well, to answer this question is to say that sighting down the cue and having this line of sight closer to the object ball point of contact (or in my case I use the ghost ball/or % of object ball showing) gives you so much better perspective than using outside english for example.

Randy, if you use my method in class, please call it the Whitewolf method :thumbup:
 
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