Ho long did it take you to go from D to C player?
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I know a lot of SL 4s and 5s that break and run full racks. A 5 over your ways must be much different than one around here.
i always pictured c players as players that break and run from time to time as long as the rack isn't too tricky
I haven't even read the several pages of responses, but I can tell you, that with some quality instruction, and some dedicated practice, it will NOT take anywhere near 8 months to a year, to move from D to C player. Lesser skilled players see huge jumps in ability very quickly, because there is so much to learn. The better you are, the smaller jumps you make, in improving. I would say a D should move to a C within 2-3 months, with the right instruction and disciplined practice (at least with the SPF style of teaching).
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
six months and six years
I haven't read the thread yet, been out of town and catching up. However for me it took six months of nightly play to move up from first picking up a stick to winning a lot more than I lost in bars. More like six years to get to over 95% of my best game and I played every night the sun went down. No structured practice but I spent a lot of time practicing on a snooker table after the first five years or so. I was using a pool cue and practicing to improve my pool game. Once I learned what the pockets would accept on the snooker table set up for golf I had a lot of three to six ball runs on the snooker table, shooting banks. There wasn't such a thing as a pool table with tight pockets after that. :wink:
Hu
Just curious how long it takes a player who dedicates time and effort to improving their game (by this I mean practicing 2 hrs a day) to go up in levels? For example how long did it take you to go from D to C player?
I remember when I picked up tennis I went from a 0 to a 3.0 in about 8 or 9 months. Then it took me 2 yrs. to go from 3.0-3.5! And that's where I stayed. In tennis the higher up the ladder you go the longer it takes. Am I correct to assume that it's the same in pool?
For those advanced players on the forum it would be great if you could share how you progressed from a D player to where you are at now (in terms of how long you practiced and how long it took you to get there). If you can remember back that far
I haven't read the thread yet, been out of town and catching up. However for me it took six months of nightly play to move up from first picking up a stick to winning a lot more than I lost in bars. More like six years to get to over 95% of my best game and I played every night the sun went down. No structured practice but I spent a lot of time practicing on a snooker table after the first five years or so. I was using a pool cue and practicing to improve my pool game. Once I learned what the pockets would accept on the snooker table set up for golf I had a lot of three to six ball runs on the snooker table, shooting banks. There wasn't such a thing as a pool table with tight pockets after that. :wink:
Hu
I'd think Scott is probably spot on
Everybody is different but I think with the kind of hours that the original poster mentioned and putting in focused practice instead of just "by guess and by gosh" as I did two to three months would be a good guess, maybe less if the student was gifted and/or obsessed. I also think that a day or two with any of the better instructors, definitely including Scott, would pay huge dividends for a D player. The sooner you get the instruction the more of a time saver it will be too.
It is easy for a D or C player to make huge gains, sometimes a B can even make a pretty big jump. As you get closer and closer to reaching your peak as a player gains get harder and harder to come by. Where one improvement might have moved you several balls better as a D or C player, a top player may need a half-dozen or more things to move them less than a full ball better.
Another thing, an instructor is working with a clean slate with a beginner. I like teaching beginners, particularly women and children. They usually accept what they are told and aren't already toting a lot of baggage about what they think the right way is. Men, particularly men that have been playing for years, are toting a lot of baggage even if they don't play well. They have ways of doing things they are reluctant to give up because these things work to some level.
Everyone with their heart in it can reach the same level regardless of which route they take. However, good instruction and structured practice is like the interstate route, it is the fastest way to your goal. Learning everything on your own is like taking the scenic route. It isn't as fast but it's often a lot more fun. I think a mixture of both is best but to jump start things I recommend doing like I do when traveling for recreation. I use the interstate to get into the general area I want to be in then I take the scenic routes to enjoy myself. This gives me a lot more time to enjoy myself rather than taking the back roads to begin with. The same is true of instructors and pool. A quick jump with an instructor will make the early learning far less frustrating.
Hu
Everybody is different but I think with the kind of hours that the original poster mentioned and putting in focused practice instead of just "by guess and by gosh" as I did two to three months would be a good guess, maybe less if the student was gifted and/or obsessed. I also think that a day or two with any of the better instructors, definitely including Scott, would pay huge dividends for a D player. The sooner you get the instruction the more of a time saver it will be too.
It is easy for a D or C player to make huge gains, sometimes a B can even make a pretty big jump. As you get closer and closer to reaching your peak as a player gains get harder and harder to come by. Where one improvement might have moved you several balls better as a D or C player, a top player may need a half-dozen or more things to move them less than a full ball better.
Another thing, an instructor is working with a clean slate with a beginner. I like teaching beginners, particularly women and children. They usually accept what they are told and aren't already toting a lot of baggage about what they think the right way is. Men, particularly men that have been playing for years, are toting a lot of baggage even if they don't play well. They have ways of doing things they are reluctant to give up because these things work to some level.
Everyone with their heart in it can reach the same level regardless of which route they take. However, good instruction and structured practice is like the interstate route, it is the fastest way to your goal. Learning everything on your own is like taking the scenic route. It isn't as fast but it's often a lot more fun. I think a mixture of both is best but to jump start things I recommend doing like I do when traveling for recreation. I use the interstate to get into the general area I want to be in then I take the scenic routes to enjoy myself. This gives me a lot more time to enjoy myself rather than taking the back roads to begin with. The same is true of instructors and pool. A quick jump with an instructor will make the early learning far less frustrating.
Hu
Now that I'm retired, I'd be thrilled to find a D or C player who was truly dedicated to learning. I think at 2 hrs a day, I could make a B player out of them in 3 months.
Many folks have suggested I teach the game, but from the teaching I did when I had the pool room I learned that everyone wants to learn until they find out just how precise and difficult the game is to really learn and they don't seem to follow through. They become complacent with their level instead.
Unless you find a truly dedicated person, teaching pool can be a very frustrating experience. My hat is off to those who do it for a living.
btw ... that's what makes bowling so popular.
Many folks have suggested I teach the game, but from the teaching I did when I had the pool room I learned that everyone wants to learn until they find out just how precise and difficult the game is to really learn and they don't seem to follow through. They become complacent with their level instead.
Unless you find a truly dedicated person, teaching pool can be a very frustrating experience. My hat is off to those who do it for a living.
btw ... that's what makes bowling so popular.
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I wouldn't be as worried about how long it takes you to get to a c player. I would just make sure your going about it right. When i started playing i would have been considered a c player. I had run a few racks being out at the bars with my friends and won most of my games while out drinking.
When i became a serious student of the game. I found a instructor and stayed about the same speed for around a year, working my game from the ground up. Starting with preshot routines, addressing the ball, and most importantly making the stick go straight every time i pulled the trigger. So i could adjust aim patterns, because if the stick doesn't go straight you cant adjust for crap and get the results you want.This time period is also when i joined my first bca league.
During that time i learned alot of knowledge about throw, english, masse, squirt, along with basic cue and table maintainence. And also alot about what is possible on certain tables. But none of it makes a difference if the stick doesn't go straight, and if you cant repeat it.
I became a strong b player 2 to 2 and a half years into playing. I started going to larger tournements out of my area to watch pro speed players at pecheur events, and went to the bar box tourney in reno a few times. I felt like i played well for my speed at the time. And most importantly i gained a ton of knowledge from watching and getting to play against some great players.
I would say i became a A player somewhere around my 5 to 6 year mark. It would have been shorter but my wife pasted away from cancer and i have been raising my 2 sons alone since. Around this time i got my parents involved in a apa league, since i have played 3 of the 5 sessions with them. They really enjoy the time out, And it has been a great way to show them pool is more than just being in a bar.
Today i play 2 nights out a week once at a local tourney and once at league. I gamble some after each time allowing. And practice 3 to 4 times a week at home doing various drills. So probably around 25 hours a week. I watch videos and live streams whenever possible. And feel like i'm maintaining my stroke and building on it a little at a time.
Hope this helps downtown johnnyB
When i became a serious student of the game. I found a instructor and stayed about the same speed for around a year, working my game from the ground up. Starting with preshot routines, addressing the ball, and most importantly making the stick go straight every time i pulled the trigger. So i could adjust aim patterns, because if the stick doesn't go straight you cant adjust for crap and get the results you want.This time period is also when i joined my first bca league.
During that time i learned alot of knowledge about throw, english, masse, squirt, along with basic cue and table maintainence. And also alot about what is possible on certain tables. But none of it makes a difference if the stick doesn't go straight, and if you cant repeat it.
I became a strong b player 2 to 2 and a half years into playing. I started going to larger tournements out of my area to watch pro speed players at pecheur events, and went to the bar box tourney in reno a few times. I felt like i played well for my speed at the time. And most importantly i gained a ton of knowledge from watching and getting to play against some great players.
I would say i became a A player somewhere around my 5 to 6 year mark. It would have been shorter but my wife pasted away from cancer and i have been raising my 2 sons alone since. Around this time i got my parents involved in a apa league, since i have played 3 of the 5 sessions with them. They really enjoy the time out, And it has been a great way to show them pool is more than just being in a bar.
Today i play 2 nights out a week once at a local tourney and once at league. I gamble some after each time allowing. And practice 3 to 4 times a week at home doing various drills. So probably around 25 hours a week. I watch videos and live streams whenever possible. And feel like i'm maintaining my stroke and building on it a little at a time.
Hope this helps downtown johnnyB
i believe the first part that it took you a half an hour to jump that level, and I think at least 3 days to go from C to A, yes I said A, you skipped wasting your time being a B player. Either ya have it or you dont!!!! And you do and I dont
.hope everything has been good for you, its hard in the yard on this end,.
best
eric
i believe the first part that it took you a half an hour to jump that level, and I think at least 3 days to go from C to A, yes I said A, you skipped wasting your time being a B player. Either ya have it or you dont!!!! And you do and I dont
hope everything has been good for you, its hard in the yard on this end,.
best
eric
I may have it (sporadically) ... but I'm still not bad enough to trap my Tabasco in the Chinese finger torture.
In my opinion, determining how long it will take someone to improve is very difficult to gauge. It depends on a lot of things but assuming we eliminate one variable and say you're practicing 15 hours a week, the next question I would ask is, "What are you practicing?"
That question is going to determine a lot. That's not to say one thing is more important than another (although that's sometimes true) but that IS to say, improvement in key attributes will have immediate impact in your winning percentage over others.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, the attributes you can work on are as follows (no particular order):
1. Pocketing
2. Position Play
3. Defense
4. The Break
5. Strategy
6. Seasoning
7. Creativity
8. Kicking
Oftentimes, D players might spend their 3 hours per day focusing on what hurt them most recently. If the last shot they took was a missed kick, they might spend the next three days working on their kicking. If their opponent made the 9 on the break at hill-hill, they might work on their break for the next week. As important as all of these attributes may be, some are definitely more important than others and will influence your improvement faster than all the rest.
Once again, in my opinion, if you want to improve as fast as possible, you have to focus a lot on pocketing. It's the root of every pool game. It's the only attribute where perfection in it will almost surely mean domination. If you want to improve, especially from D to C, work on pocketing. That doesn't mean you ignore everything else - all the other attributes are important and their importance will vary depending on your skill level but you should never move away from working on pocketing.
That question is going to determine a lot. That's not to say one thing is more important than another (although that's sometimes true) but that IS to say, improvement in key attributes will have immediate impact in your winning percentage over others.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, the attributes you can work on are as follows (no particular order):
1. Pocketing
2. Position Play
3. Defense
4. The Break
5. Strategy
6. Seasoning
7. Creativity
8. Kicking
Oftentimes, D players might spend their 3 hours per day focusing on what hurt them most recently. If the last shot they took was a missed kick, they might spend the next three days working on their kicking. If their opponent made the 9 on the break at hill-hill, they might work on their break for the next week. As important as all of these attributes may be, some are definitely more important than others and will influence your improvement faster than all the rest.
Once again, in my opinion, if you want to improve as fast as possible, you have to focus a lot on pocketing. It's the root of every pool game. It's the only attribute where perfection in it will almost surely mean domination. If you want to improve, especially from D to C, work on pocketing. That doesn't mean you ignore everything else - all the other attributes are important and their importance will vary depending on your skill level but you should never move away from working on pocketing.
Hussa)
sorry for perhaps asking a *strange* question- how do you rate your player/skill-levels? Read about several systems; but how do you put A-B-C and D players into *their* so called cathegory?
thx in advance
Ingo
There is no set way to say for sure. Some areas have higher standards than other. Like in new york they seem to rate 1 full grade up
I thought of C players as someone who only runs out twice a year, whereas Jude says that's someone who runs out more like twice a night. OMG I'M A C PLAYER. Let me just go warm up the oven so I can stick my head in it :/
FYI, several good descriptions can be found here:
and here:
Regards,
Dave
I really am not sure where I fall in the mix. I am rated as a 7 in APA but as has been mentioned far too often, their rating system is tenuous at best. My question/***** is how does one transpose what seems to be a rating system based upon ability in 9 ball on a 9ft table......to Bbox 8 ball. I've not played enough 9 ball to have a sophisticated knowledge of the game....but I am able to give most anyone a good game of 8 ball. So would I be regarded as perhaps a B+ on the barbox and a D- in 9 ball? I agree with a previous poster on not concerning myself with my ranking....I judge my ability on results of actual play......not a subjective rating system......Dan
I have not had a chance to read through this yet, so I'm sorry if I'm rehashing what others have said. I can't really say how long it took me because I wasn't really aware of those kinds of rankings when I was moving between them. I'm probably a solid B+ to A- today.
What I did want to mention was my view on the differences between those ranks. D to C is mainly about shot making and consistency. C to B requires a jump in overall knowledge of the game, speed control, shot making, and just plain better decision making. This IMHO is the biggest difference is skill that exists in pool, C to B. Rarely is the B player surprised by what a better opponent decides to do and pulls off, he's mainly just envious that he can't do it as well or as consistently. The C player watching a competent B or A player usually has trouble understanding exactly why the A/B player is choosing the shots they do even if the C player's shot making is equal to the task of making those shots. That's the difference in knowledge that I mentioned at the start.
What I did want to mention was my view on the differences between those ranks. D to C is mainly about shot making and consistency. C to B requires a jump in overall knowledge of the game, speed control, shot making, and just plain better decision making. This IMHO is the biggest difference is skill that exists in pool, C to B. Rarely is the B player surprised by what a better opponent decides to do and pulls off, he's mainly just envious that he can't do it as well or as consistently. The C player watching a competent B or A player usually has trouble understanding exactly why the A/B player is choosing the shots they do even if the C player's shot making is equal to the task of making those shots. That's the difference in knowledge that I mentioned at the start.
I won my first weekly event within 2 months. After 9 months of playing, I got to play in the National 9 ball championship and finished T33 out of 128. 1 year I played everyone in my area even. Some were still better, but I was in the game.
It took me a solid year of practice to jump from B/C level to A. A level being good enough to beat a lower level pro (if they are not shooting good). I had about 3 years play before putting in that solid year trying to improve. I could have played 20 years and not got better.
My practice.... practicing the shots I was missing in tournaments.
It took me a solid year of practice to jump from B/C level to A. A level being good enough to beat a lower level pro (if they are not shooting good). I had about 3 years play before putting in that solid year trying to improve. I could have played 20 years and not got better.
My practice.... practicing the shots I was missing in tournaments.
i used to think that that wasn't possible but bar box are 8 ball and 9 ball are different animals completely. i like to think my barbox 8 ball game is decent. i play fairly decent patterns but i think that's because i spend a decent amount of time practicing straight pool and watching accu stats straight pool matches.
i bet a d- player (9 ball that is) is probably a stretch. most barbox 9 ball is just pocketing balls.
That sounds about right.
