How did Ralph Greenleaf "Aim"?
- Thread starter Pangit
- Start date
Good for ratings means that epic threads are good for eyeballs on ads which is what ad-supported forums want.
But here is my take on why the proponents should not give up.
What they do is a sincere effort to bring something to players which improves their play.
That's a positive thing.
Knocking it through mocking and derisive bullying is a negative thing.
Giving up means that censorship wins. Because essentially that is what naysayers ultimately want. They want to censor those who try to bring this to the pool world and they want to suppress it.
There is no one way to play. The pool literature from 100 years ago shows that billiard authors/instructors back then didn't all agree on any one best way to play. The best world is one in which there are plenty of ways to approach playing the game and the aspiring player can try whatever he wants.
But if we take your suggestion and quite promoting what we think is helpful because we are afraid of getting insulted and denigrated then what does that mean when you figure out something cool and want to share it? Will you keep it off the forum or will you share it? If you know with 100% certainty that what you figured out works will you stop sharing it if you get some negative comments from people who won't even bother to take it to the table?
I would hope not. It would be sad if what you created would disappear before I got a chance to see it and benefit from it.
Probably Leon Yonders, who among other things ran 150 or so without touching a cushion. Or at least Hal did use the term idiot savant for Yonders one time when we were discussing aiming systems.
Hal used to tell me this guy was probably mentally disabled to some degree. He would walk around with a nickel in his hand saying, "I have a nickel." He would refer to him as someone people would have to "shoo away" often.
If there ever was a true savant in the entire history of pool, Leon was likely it. From the description Hal gives of the man, he definitely had some form of autism or Aspergers. Hal said the guy didn't know how to miss and was "beyond gifted" at ball pocketing.
Very carefully...
I thought that everyone knew that Greenleaf aimed with his toes! Yes, when he got down on the shot he just pointed his big toe in the direction he wanted the object ball to go. Worked almost every time for him too! Amazing but true. :groucho:
DAMn, I didn't know he used CTE (Calibrated-Toes Estimation). :grin-square:
I tend to avoid "aiming" threads like the plague yet here I find myself, just having read this entire one.
Keeping with my tradition, I will not comment specifically on aiming but, rather, I would like to comment on another aspect.
The general direction these aiming threads tend to take is a steep downward spiral, civility all but lost.
There are a number of guys who have posted on this thread for whom I have a lot of respect. I am disappointed, however, to see so many unconstructive (and occasionally insulting/meanspirited) comments coming from them. For whatever reasons aiming has become an extremely emotional topic.
Like him or not - agree with him or not, Dr. Dave strikes me as always being very respectful to everyone when sharing his opinions. And unless I have missed something egregious coming from him, I believe he deserves the same in return.
This is an interesting subject to many and without a doubt there will be plenty more aiming threads to come. It would be nice to think that going forward, before hitting the send button, that the "yeasayers" and the "naysayers" could all make a genuine effort toward making their points in a more respectful way.
Best,
Brian kc
Keeping with my tradition, I will not comment specifically on aiming but, rather, I would like to comment on another aspect.
The general direction these aiming threads tend to take is a steep downward spiral, civility all but lost.
There are a number of guys who have posted on this thread for whom I have a lot of respect. I am disappointed, however, to see so many unconstructive (and occasionally insulting/meanspirited) comments coming from them. For whatever reasons aiming has become an extremely emotional topic.
Like him or not - agree with him or not, Dr. Dave strikes me as always being very respectful to everyone when sharing his opinions. And unless I have missed something egregious coming from him, I believe he deserves the same in return.
This is an interesting subject to many and without a doubt there will be plenty more aiming threads to come. It would be nice to think that going forward, before hitting the send button, that the "yeasayers" and the "naysayers" could all make a genuine effort toward making their points in a more respectful way.
Best,
Brian kc
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I dug deep...but I think I discovered Ralph's aiming method..
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http://www.google.ca/url?url=http:/...lasses&usg=AFQjCNE-QTTE6V6xGeqGiKmTW9c5Xyj60Q
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http://www.google.ca/url?url=http:/...lasses&usg=AFQjCNE-QTTE6V6xGeqGiKmTW9c5Xyj60Q
That must have really hurt on bank shots. Probably explains his limp in later years.
I am in it to win it.
For me the day aiming systems (the kind that cause arguments) became truly valid was the day I realized that top instructors whom I respect highly and whose business it is to teach pool had started to teach these methods.
I realized that they didn't have to. They all have plenty of students who have plenty of other problems to work on to keep them busy.
There is NO REASON for them to teach these non-standard systems UNLESS there is major benefit to it from their perspective as instructors.
The last thing an instructor want is to send a student away with anything that hurts their game. And any aiming method which does that is going to be damaging to their reputation as an instructor.
So when people who have built solid businesses decided to teach these methods then it's valid for me and we won. It's not just one old man and his ideas and many of the people he has touched who are mostly average players touting the systems. People used the term Houlite and Houligan to be derisive back in the RSB days. And I can see where a nobody like me talking about a great "new" way to aim would rankle some people's ire, especially if they feel they earned their skill "the hard way".
But when top instructors teach it then it means something else. It means that they have evaluated it and found it worth imparting to students who are giving them money for instruction. When a merchant brings in a new product then there is a certain amount of trust between the merchant and the customer who shops his store that he has vetted that product to an acceptable degree. Doesn't always happen that way in the larger world but in the tiny world of pool I tend to feel that when TOP instructors choose to teach aiming systems then they most certainly have looked at them from every angle and figured out how best to teach them.
That is all the proof I need.
You're right.
These naysayers are whining for proof and it's in front of their face but are now too embarassed to accept it, so no amount of proof is going to change their mind. Their attitude sucks about anything to do with CTE and CTE/Pro1 and that's not going to change no matter what proof is staring them in the face. It used to be that they would whine that no top player uses this aiming system and now when several do use CTE/Pro1, they say the players are lying or some other cheap shot like they are getting paid to say it.
It really gets old hearing their deep-rooted hatred but you can see it in their posts. My posts are simply a reflection of their mean spirited comments and will always be that and nothing more.
On another subject, a shot that some people have trouble using traditional aiming techniques like ghost ball or "instinctive" aiming is the one in the following chart. Now maybe a champion like Lou or Grilled Cheese don't have trouble with a shot like this, but i have been approached on more than on occasion or two about this shot and asked for help. I often show them how to make this shot using CTE/Pro1 and I've had novices who have never seen CTE/Pro1, use it for this shot and are able to make it within minutes, WITH CONSISTENCY that they never had before.
I guess people see what they want to see! I see Ralph compensating for extreme english...not pivoting! Ralph uses the same method of aiming that he teaches others...ghostball! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPDUnTKJ-5s
Yep, "people" certainly do see what they want to see. To the point that they blind themselves to anything new.
www.jbcases.com
Even if you see what you think you see, do you also see him lining up left, than pivoting to center, and than applying BHE on his last stroke?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHtRjbHZU2g
In this video he is clearly lining up left than applies right english to the shot.
In this video he is clearly lining up left than applies right english to the shot.
Pangit
Banned
Call me stupud...WTF is CTE? We don't have that in PI. Rotation 8/9/10 ball...once inawhile a "tourtist" visit's that know's how to play ONE POCKET. A rare treat.