How did the ball colors and numbers start?

M

Mark Griffin

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I had a BCAPL league Operator ask me a question and I have no idea of the answer. He has asked around for years and no-one can tell him.

But AZ know EVERYTHING! - so how did the colors of the balls originate? The numbers are fairly logical - as is the 7 solids and 7 stripes and the one black (8) ball.

Could have been different though.

Years ago they made sets of 21 balls - but the 8 was still the 8 (and not the '10') - which would be the middle ball.

Same could be said for 9-ball rack (with 4 each of stripes and solids) buyt this probably would not offer a big enough challenge.

So- who knows the answer?

Thanks,

Mark Griffin
 
Hopefully some of AZ's collectors and historians can provide an answer.

Heck, I just recently noticed the +8 coloring system, solid to stripe. (1ball +8= 9ball=yellow, etc).

And what about snooker colours? Different color scheme.

Certainly, someone can provide an answer that we can argue about.

take care
 
Probably have to wait for the members who were there to wake up from their nap before we find out the truth on this one.

:grin:
 
I dont think theres an agreed upon answer but IIRC, there was a long thread on it here years ago that went through most every peice of history.

Maybe I can find it.....
 
Mark Griffin said:
I had a BCAPL league Operator ask me a question and I have no idea of the answer. He has asked around for years and no-one can tell him.

But AZ know EVERYTHING! - so how did the colors of the balls originate? The numbers are fairly logical - as is the 7 solids and 7 stripes and the one black (8) ball.

Could have been different though.

Years ago they made sets of 21 balls - but the 8 was still the 8 (and not the '10') - which would be the middle ball.

Same could be said for 9-ball rack (with 4 each of stripes and solids) buyt this probably would not offer a big enough challenge.

So- who knows the answer?

Thanks,

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

This sounds as good of an answer as anything to me:

In the color spectrum are three "primary" colors (red, yellow, and blue),
three "secondary" colors (orange, green, and purple - a mix of two primaries), then six "tertiary" colors (mix of a primary and a secondary). The pool ball pattern is primary colors for 1-3, secondary colors for 4-6 and a single tertiary color for 7. Skipping the 8-ball, that same pattern is repeated for balls 9-15. The cue ball and 8-ball are white (all colors) and black (no color).

0 White All colors

1 Yellow Primary color
2 Blue Primary color
3 Red Primary color
4 Purple Secondary color (red/blue)
5 Orange Secondary color (red/yellow)
6 Green Secondary color (blue/yellow)
7 Maroon Tertiary color (red/purple)

8 Black No color

9-15 Repeat 1-7
 
Mark Griffin said:
I had a BCAPL league Operator ask me a question and I have no idea of the answer. He has asked around for years and no-one can tell him.

But AZ know EVERYTHING! - so how did the colors of the balls originate? The numbers are fairly logical - as is the 7 solids and 7 stripes and the one black (8) ball.

Could have been different though.

Years ago they made sets of 21 balls - but the 8 was still the 8 (and not the '10') - which would be the middle ball.

Same could be said for 9-ball rack (with 4 each of stripes and solids) buyt this probably would not offer a big enough challenge.

So- who knows the answer?

Thanks,

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

They came from the primary and secondary color wheel.
3 primary
3 secondary
white = absence
black = all

bill
 
my guesses

I think numbering them 1-15 was just to be able to call the right ball in any game.For 8 ball you could just go with 2 colors and the black but then you would have to point out exactly witch yellow or red you are calling rather then just saying the number.

It seams like the stripes and design of the balls might have come from croquet balls?

Just conjecture on my part but I will try to find the real answers.
 
Fifteen-Ball Pool was played with 15 object balls, numbered 1 through 15. For sinking a ball, the player received a number of points equal to the value of the ball. The sum of the ball values in a rack is 120, so the first player who received more than half the total, or 61, was the winner. This game, also called "61-Pool" was used in the first American championship pool tournament held in 1878 and won by Cyrille Dion, a Canadian. In 1888, it was thought more fair to count the number of balls pocketed by a player and not their numerical value. Thus, Continuous Pool replaced Fifteen-Ball Pool as the championship game. The player who sank the last ball of a rack would break the next rack and his point total would be kept "continuously" from one rack to the next.

This is from a page I found on the net http://www.thebilliardshop.com/history-of-pool-and-billiards

Eight-Ball was invented shortly after 1900; Straight Pool followed in 1910. Nine-Ball seems to have developed around 1920.
 
vasilios said:
They came from the primary and secondary color wheel.
3 primary
3 secondary
white = absence
black = all

bill
Click to expand...

You got the black and white backwards though.

And HawieanEye was close but technically Black is the absence of all visible light (it's why outer space is balck), while white is the presence of the complete spectrum.
 
IMO, the best candidate for answers would be Charles Ursitti. He's been keeping historical records and information for half a decade or longer. Here's his site: http://charlesursitti.com/ Another person who might know is Mike Shamos, curator of The Billiard Archive, in Pittsburgh.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

3RAILKICK said:
Hopefully some of AZ's collectors and historians can provide an answer.

Heck, I just recently noticed the +8 coloring system, solid to stripe. (1ball +8= 9ball=yellow, etc).

And what about snooker colours? Different color scheme.

Certainly, someone can provide an answer that we can argue about.

take care
Click to expand...
 
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Cdryden said:
You got the black and white backwards though.

And HawieanEye was close but technically Black is the absence of all visible light (it's why outer space is balck), while white is the presence of the complete spectrum.
Click to expand...

Mixing pigments vs light spectrum
I went with the pigment side

bill
 
smoooothstroke said:
Fifteen-Ball Pool was played with 15 object balls, numbered 1 through 15. For sinking a ball, the player received a number of points equal to the value of the ball. The sum of the ball values in a rack is 120, so the first player who received more than half the total, or 61, was the winner. This game, also called "61-Pool" was used in the first American championship pool tournament held in 1878 and won by Cyrille Dion, a Canadian. In 1888, it was thought more fair to count the number of balls pocketed by a player and not their numerical value. Thus, Continuous Pool replaced Fifteen-Ball Pool as the championship game. The player who sank the last ball of a rack would break the next rack and his point total would be kept "continuously" from one rack to the next.

This is from a page I found on the net http://www.thebilliardshop.com/history-of-pool-and-billiards

Eight-Ball was invented shortly after 1900; Straight Pool followed in 1910. Nine-Ball seems to have developed around 1920.
Click to expand...

They also use this 61 pt ball count in a four handed game called odd ball (or Cowboy Pocket billiards? I think), but what's interesting, the 8 is black and its the amt of difference between the solid colored and he stripe colored of the same color group, I know I thru this question out a few yrs back, I'm gonna do a search.
 
Black is all colors-white is no colors

Black is all colors White is no colors.
HawaiianEye said:
This sounds as good of an answer as anything to me:

In the color spectrum are three "primary" colors (red, yellow, and blue),
three "secondary" colors (orange, green, and purple - a mix of two primaries), then six "tertiary" colors (mix of a primary and a secondary). The pool ball pattern is primary colors for 1-3, secondary colors for 4-6 and a single tertiary color for 7. Skipping the 8-ball, that same pattern is repeated for balls 9-15. The cue ball and 8-ball are white (all colors) and black (no color).

0 White All colors

1 Yellow Primary color
2 Blue Primary color
3 Red Primary color
4 Purple Secondary color (red/blue)
5 Orange Secondary color (red/yellow)
6 Green Secondary color (blue/yellow)
7 Maroon Tertiary color (red/purple)

8 Black No color

9-15 Repeat 1-7
Click to expand...
 
Found this older post

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Anyone know the history of ball colors?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does anyone know the history of when the "traditional" colors (yellow, blue, red, etc.) were first used on balls?
__________________


I found this older thread started by the above.............
 
Bill Yerd said:
Black is all colors White is no colors.
Click to expand...

Unless something has changed since my color theory class Whites is all colors combined in equal parts and black is the absence of color.

My instructor explained black and white to me like this. "Neither are colors, but if you insist on thinking of it in those terms then consider them the same color, one is just brighter than the other."
 
From what I understand, prior to the mid 1800s (when american 'numbered ball' games started to become commonplace) the balls were marked by 'engraving' a number on each one. (scrimshaw) However, it was soon determined that cutting into the surface like that caused the balls to rebound in strange ways when the collision was on the number.

A new way of marking the balls was devised (a color code w/numbers) so that not only would the surface stay intact, but it would also be easy to tell what number each ball was no matter which way it was facing.

Edit to add:
Americans did not initially play billiard games with more than 3 or 4 balls. But by 1850 or so, the Russian game of "Pyramid" had become the basis for a 'new' American "15 ball pool" game, in which each ball is worth it's face value. In other words, the numbers were added to place a point value on each ball, that could be higher than a single point. But then, as mentioned above, scratching up the balls was found to be a bad idea. So they dyed them instead. As you might imagine, Red, Blue and Yellow came first, followed by the secondary colors.
 
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Bill Yerd said:
Black is all colors White is no colors.
Click to expand...

White light is light that includes all the colors of the spectrum. Which is why when you put white light through a prism, which seperates the various wavelengths of the light you can see the full spectrum/rainbow effect showing all of the various colors from the visible range of the infrared to the ultraviolet ends of the spectrum.
 
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