Ian Anderson was right all along....

[JAM]

If you think it is a joke, then tell the board in BCA all of your ideas of how to improve the pool in the states. Guess you have a lot! Don't just complain, get in the action yourself and help them do something good for the pros in America!

Roy, with all due respect, the BCA is an industry-member organization, and the fruits of its labor benefit its members who are industry folk, not pro players.

The BCA has a very nice setup, somewhere in Colorado, with salaried employees. I like their website too.

When I look at the scheme of the whole picture as an American, with my interests geared towards the American pro player in particular, the BCA doesn't seem to have any umph, for lack of a better word, to professional players in the States.

Yes, there is the BCA Open which hosts 4 qualifiers in the year for its event. Half of the player roster consists of UPA members -- a topic for another thread -- and the other half are "invited" international players.

I once wrote to the BCA asking why a non-UPA American player was competing in the BCA Open, when there were existing UPA players who were not invited. The reply I received from the BCA was that the whole BCA Open event was subcontracted out to a vendor. I contacted the vendor. The reply I received was that the non-UPA American player was on a waiting list. At that time, there were existing and qualified UPA members who should have been eligible to compete at the BCA Open.

It does seem to me that the payouts of the BCA Open in Vegas are kind of low -- $15,000 for first place to the men and women. However, since the BCA is an industry member organization, I guess they look out for the industry members more so than the professional players. The BCA, IMHO, may be great, but it doesn't seem to help professional players in the States very much.

...Since I have started to bring the youth in it, the WPA also organizes youth tournaments like the World Championship. They shouldn't do that either, or what? Rather put the money in the US pro players instead?

I like the fact that the WPA invests in the youth. I think that is a very good thing.

Looking at the WPA as an American, though, I think the fruits of their labor benefit the non-American players more so than the American players, IMHO. Yet, the non-American players come to our shores and compete in MANY American events, the U.S. Open as an example.

I don't know what the answer is, and this is a very political hot topic for sure. Everybody has their own agenda. For me, I am interested in the future of American professional pool. I do not see the WPA being the change agent for American players. As well, I dont' see the BCA being a big help either. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[Roy Steffensen]

What I can't understand is why there is no organization like for example the EPBF in Europe, who works together with all the countries.

In the states there should be one governing body working for all the states, having a USA Championship open only for Americans, like we have the European Championship in 14-1, 9-ball and 8-ball for men, women, wheelchair, junior, pupils, girls, seniors and ladies.

And keep in mind that all countries organize such tournaments themselves, and normally the players who win those (or finish high in the national league) will be elected to play in the European Championship. (Max 4 players per country, I think)

Is there State Championships in USA for all those divisions, and a National Championship?

This could be a start, if not... Pool would get more organized in the States, especially regarding the Youths...

And: EPBF is responsible for the 7 Eurotour stops aswell, which decides who is going to the World Championships.

 

[elizabeth]

Roy, with all due respect, the BCA is an industry-member organization, and the fruits of its labor benefit its members who are industry folk, not pro players.

The BCA has a very nice setup, somewhere in Colorado, with salaried employees. I like their website too.

When I look at the scheme of the whole picture as an American, with my interests geared towards the American pro player in particular, the BCA doesn't seem to have any umph, for lack of a better word, to professional players in the States.

Yes, there is the BCA Open which hosts 4 qualifiers in the year for its event. Half of the player roster consists of UPA members -- a topic for another thread -- and the other half are "invited" international players.

I once wrote to the BCA asking why a non-UPA American player was competing in the BCA Open, when there were existing UPA players who were not invited. The reply I received from the BCA was that the whole BCA Open event was subcontracted out to a vendor. I contacted the vendor. The reply I received was that the non-UPA American player was on a waiting list. At that time, there were existing and qualified UPA members who should have been eligible to compete at the BCA Open.

It does seem to me that the payouts of the BCA Open in Vegas are kind of low -- $15,000 for first place to the men and women. However, since the BCA is an industry member organization, I guess they look out for the industry members more so than the professional players. The BCA, IMHO, may be great, but it doesn't seem to help professional players in the States very much.



I like the fact that the WPA invests in the youth. I think that is a very good thing.

Looking at the WPA as an American, though, I think the fruits of their labor benefit the non-American players more so than the American players, IMHO. Yet, the non-American players come to our shores and compete in MANY American events, the U.S. Open as an example.

I don't know what the answer is, and this is a very political hot topic for sure. Everybody has their own agenda. For me, I am interested in the future of American professional pool. I do not see the WPA being the change agent for American players. As well, I dont' see the BCA being a big help either. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

I could not have said it better myself.
I have been around the pro players and the industry leaders the industry should be involved moreso because the players sell their products.If the industry or the BCA would help promote the players more in the USA eveyone wins as I see it the only ones making money is the industry.The general audience believes that they will be able to play better pool if they buy or invest in a more or expensive cue we all know that if you cannot play then the equiptment will not inprove your game it goes back to talent and dedication.But everyone sees a pro playing with certain equiptment and they feel if they use it it will improve their skills its the same in golf and tennis.However,golf and tennis organizations reward and promote their players success is a two way street.So why would the players if the IPT Tour survives want to be involved with the WPA?The BCA and the WPA do not care about the US male players at all history has proven that.If the junior championships are their focus and the future then thats where they should stay.If a World Championship is held by the IPT they do not need the WPA to ok it.The IPT does need more organization yes but people that live in glass houses should not throw stones.These guys have played and worked hard and dedicated themselves their entire lives for pennies its their time now and the industry will benefit just by association.The players owe nothing to the WPA or the BCA.Its sad but true these guys deserve to be paid for their talent and dedication without organizations trying to get a piece of the action

 

[elizabeth]

If you think it is a joke, then tell the board in BCA all of your ideas of how to improve the pool in the states. Guess you have a lot! Don't just complain, get in the action yourself and help them do something good for the pros in America!

Since you are complaining on the WPA and that 60 hours of live broadcasting of the World Championship with more than 400 000$ in pricemoney obviously isn't enough, well then write the WPA too and tell them all of your great ideas!

And maybe you could share them with us too? How to get more money on the World Championship? Since 500 000 000 possible wievers for live broadcasting at the World Championship isn't good enough, tell them how to improve it! Must be easy...

WPA didn't care about the players in the IPT-situation? If IPT were sanctioned by WPA they would have demanded that 50 % of the pricefund for 2006 should be in an escrowaccount (correct word?). With that, KT and IPT would have paid out a hell of a lot $ in advance for 2006. Wouldn't solve all problems, but at least some of them. But guess WPA don't demand that because they care for the pro players, do they?

Besides, most of the money from the sanctionfee would have been spent on the youth, which would have benefit IPT in the longterm. Maybe they wouldn't get the tournaments sanctioned because they knew they wouldn't excist long enough to benefit from the youth programs?

Since I have started to bring the youth in it, the WPA also organizes youth tournaments like the World Championship. They shouldn't do that either, or what? Rather put the money in the US pro players instead?

The WPA should stick with the youth and stay out of the pro ranks its like they are not even there as it is.

 

[elizabeth]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the WPC coverage, prize money etc. is down to Matchroom and Raya Sports, not the WPA..

You are correct.

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Since you obviously aren't satisfied with the WPA, what is it that needs to change, and most important, how? Please tell me...

I think the WPA is doing a good job, not perfect, but it is getting better and better every year, more countries are joining and it is no doubt that it is easier to get pool known through a world governing body, with all the countires behind them.

IPT did good too, but they weren't even close to get the broadcast that the World Championship has... And I believe that with the work WPA is doing, they have shown consistency in their work, they will finally get huge sponsors to work together with them.

But I think the mainproblem here is that you believe that WPA is supposed to run tournaments for the pros in USA, that's not the case.

Some organization in USA is supposed to do that work.

WPA is supposed to make sure that pricefunds are guaranteed, that the players rights are taken care of, that there are similar rules in all countries and to work to get the pool recognized and accepted as a sport in the world...

 

[JAM]

Since you obviously aren't satisfied with the WPA, what is it that needs to change, and most important, how? Please tell me...

I think the WPA is doing a good job, not perfect, but it is getting better and better every year, more countries are joining and it is no doubt that it is easier to get pool known through a world governing body, with all the countires behind them.

IPT did good too, but they weren't even close to get the broadcast that the World Championship has... And I believe that with the work WPA is doing, they have shown consistency in their work, they will finally get huge sponsors to work together with them.

But I think the mainproblem here is that you believe that WPA is supposed to run tournaments for the pros in USA, that's not the case.

Some organization in USA is supposed to do that work.

WPA is supposed to make sure that pricefunds are guaranteed, that the players rights are taken care of, that there are similar rules in all countries and to work to get the pool recognized and accepted as a sport in the world...

Roy, I understand what you are saying, and you make some very valid points, IMHO!

Most, if not all, American tournaments open their doors to players from around the world. It is not quite the same in some Asian Pacific Islander countries or in Europe for that matter. Yet, the Asian Pacific Islander and European players enjoy the American tournaments, and we enjoy seeing them.

America, if I may be so bold, has turned their back on American professional players. The industry members, the non-pool-related media, and the BCA have interests which do not seem to include the American pro players, IMHO.

Because of the lack of interest in American pro players, the existing lot of professional players in these United States is dwindling.

I hasten to say it, but I will. I think the IPT made a HUGE investment in American pool, and they included the international players in the vision as well. It didn't take too long before it was quite evident that any investment in pool on American soil does not bring back a very good return. This is the state of affairs in America when it comes to pool. It is quite different in Asian Pacific Islander countries.

I have spoken to European players and asked them what they enjoyed about American events, and the response I received from many of the pro European players was that the American events paid more than the European events.

When you look at the American pool pie, the pro players get the smallest slice of it. A little bone, with not much meat on it.

The American legendary player Luther Lassiter said in the 1970's that in order to make money at competing in pool, one must win every tournament, which is darn near impossible. He also added that one must come in at least second place to break even. Not much has changed in America since the 1970's. It's still the same.

It takes monies for organizations like the WPA and BCA to exist. After they pay their salaried employees and keep them gainfully employed throughout the year, what is left for the professional players? I like the fact that they are investing in the youth, but if one were to look at the books, I would venture to guess that the investment in professional players is quite minute, American players included.

JAM

 

[Bob Jewett]

... It takes monies for organizations like the WPA and BCA to exist. After they pay their salaried employees and keep them gainfully employed throughout the year, what is left for the professional players? I...

To the best of my knowledge, the WPA has no salaried employees. Do you have other information?

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I hasten to say it, but I will. I think the IPT made a HUGE investment in American pool, and they included the international players in the vision as well. It didn't take too long before it was quite evident that any investment in pool on American soil does not bring back a very good return. This is the state of affairs in America when it comes to pool. It is quite different in Asian Pacific Islander countries.JAM

I can't agree completely with you here, but I agree on that IPT (the players themselves?) made huge investments in international pool, but what would the outcome have been if they instead have have run for example five 250 000 $ tournaments a year.

I believe that they would have got the exact same players, the exact same broadcast that they did, the exact same members on their website, the same sponsors and so on. What they couldn't do was to charge so much for qualifiers, but still people would have paid hundreds to qualify, IMO.

If the IPT had done it like this, perhaps there could have been an income during the years, the sponsors would have seen consistency in their work and the tv-channels would have tournaments that were played on schedule all the time. Spectators would have get used to the IPT, and yes, I think you understand where I am going.

But this is another discussion, and it belongs in the IPT-section. The reason for meaning it is another discussion, is because the IPT was INTERNATIONAL, and not something that was made for the pros only in America.

I think that America and it's pro players needs to find out what is needed, and start work with it. Why wait for someone to do it?

EDITED: I just remembered that this thread was about the WPA and IPT, so the discussion do belong here afterall

 

[TheOne]

The EPBF sits underneath the WPA and they are making great strides with the Euro Tour, numbers are growing as is TV coverage and prize money etc.

There is NOTHING stopping anyone, American or otherwise participating in any Euro tour event.

It seems clear to me that it isn't so much the WPA that is failing in its duty but more so the American body that is responsible for organizing an American Professional Tour (like the Euro Tour or Asian Tour).

The UPA seems to be dormant and the website as usual hasn't been updated for a long time, and the BCA only organizes 1 professional tournament a year even though it is a fine one at that.

I don't know why America needs the UPA and the BCA but one of them needs to take responsibility and put together a sustainable mens professional tour!

 

[Roy Steffensen]

I don't know why America needs the UPA and the BCA but one of them needs to take responsibility and put together a sustainable mens professional tour!

Tap tap tap

(When are you gonna change your avatar?)

 

[JAM]

To the best of my knowledge, the WPA has no salaried employees. Do you have other information?

No, Bob. It appears that I may be replying to a loaded question.

I am unaware of how American pro players, which is where my interests are, have benefited from the WPA. I read quite a bit about the WPA making strides with European entities, but here in the States, I have not seen very much evidence of their involvement with American pro players. Do you have other information? I would very much like to be enlightened.

How do the persons who are working for and/or running the WPA pay for their expenses? Am I wrong to believe that when they travel around the world and incur expenses -- per diem, lodging, travel, et cetera -- that they do not get paid and incur expenses out of pocket? If the powers-that-be of the WPA do pay for their expenses out of pocket and do not receive any monies from the WPA organization, then I humbly stand corrected. It must be quite expensive for those who work at the WPA to pay for these expenses out of pocket. That is for sure.

Also, if you know the answer to this burning question, I would very much appreciate a reply. Who in the BCA gave the UPA the green light several short years ago to be the governing body of professional pool for men in America, an organization with no existing track record at that time?

Thank you in advance for any and all replies.

JAM

 

[JAM]

But this is another discussion, and it belongs in the IPT-section. The reason for meaning it is another discussion, is because the IPT was INTERNATIONAL, and not something that was made for the pros only in America...

Again, some very valid points, Roy, and I understand your logic.

It is true that the IPT was international in flavor. As well, the IPT gifted each Hall of Famer of the industry-member organization known as the BCA a $30,000 check just for showing up at an invitational event in Orlando, Florida, just one short year ago.

I do wonder what are the benefits of being a BCA Hall of Famer to the Hall of Famer themselves. Do they profit from it financially?

Even though the IPT was an international pool tour, I'd like to think that initially the IPT did have American players' interests at heart, and the vision, if you can call it that, was to include players from around the world.

America -- the non-pool-related media, the BCA, and industry members of the BCA -- does not seem to be interested in American pro players. It's as if American pro players are all sitting on a raft in the ocean with all of their talent and, thus, there is nowhere to go. However, the American events open their doors to our European and Asian Pacific Islander brethren, and as such, this raft has gotten quite crowded. Some pro players jumped into the abyss of the American pool ocean and have since vanished.

JAM

 

[JAM]

The EPBF sits underneath the WPA and they are making great strides with the Euro Tour, numbers are growing as is TV coverage and prize money etc.

There is NOTHING stopping anyone, American or otherwise participating in any Euro tour event.

It seems clear to me that it isn't so much the WPA that is failing in its duty but more so the American body that is responsible for organizing an American Professional Tour (like the Euro Tour or Asian Tour).

The UPA seems to be dormant and the website as usual hasn't been updated for a long time, and the BCA only organizes 1 professional tournament a year even though it is a fine one at that.

I don't know why America needs the UPA and the BCA but one of them needs to take responsibility and put together a sustainable mens professional tour!

Very good points, Craig, and I agree with much of what you say!

Fortunately for the American lady pros, they have a professional organization which has made great strides over the years. To their credit, they also provide a legitimate RANKING system and provide a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD for its members. There are no decisions made behind closed doors, and the members know exactly what is going on with the organization. I am not saying the members as a whole agree with every decision made, but at least they are kept abreast of the happenings and receive member benefits.

The American pro players, especially the men, are a dying breed. They may just have to hop on that plane and go to Europe, Philippines, and Asia to follow their dreams because, here in the United States, it is very difficult for existing pros and aspiring pros to continue playing pool competitively.

I have no idea what the future holds for American pro players, but looking at it from my little corner of the world, it don't look too good.

JAM

 

[Blackjack]

Interesting thread.

Ian was correct in his initial assessment of Kevin Trudeau's IPT.

What does the WPA do for the game of pool? A lot more than what some people in this thread know about.

Elizabeth, your attitude towards the WPA in this thread are typical of many in North America. That is why pocket billiards is thriving everywhere except here. It comes down to the attitude in the U.S. - not the policies of the WPA. I say that respectfully. Many share your point of view, but few get involved in the action to try and make the situation better for everyone involved.

The WPA is part of an organization known as the WCBS, which is the world sanctioning body for all the billiard disciplines. The WPA follows WCBS protocol, sanctioning, and testing guidelines.

When the IPT came into being, Kevin's number one mistake was that he surrounded himself with the wrong people. He surrounded himself with people that told him that he did not need to foster any type of relationship with these organizations. It was the biggest mistake in the history of our game - and who lost? The players, the fans, the industry, and also the IPT.

If Kevin would have surrounded himself with educated people that understood the international marketing potential for pocket billiards, he would not be in the position he is in today. Instead he surrounded himself with people that told him that everybody involved with the sport up until that point had failed them. In truth, the people that were telling him that had failed all by themselves. It was just easier to point fingers at the WPA, the BCA, the UPA, and me - but in reality if you're getting nowhere in your quest for success its because of the man in the mirror.

The IPT could have been a great shot in the arm for our entire industry. The problem was that it satisfied the player's need for money (short term) and not much else. I know of several people that are qualified and motivated to create a pool tour away from the ashes of the IPT. Will people support it? Will players spend more time promoting the sport instead of promoting their gambling efforts? I won't hold my breath.

I was told long ago that you get nothing for nothing and damn little for two cents. If you want pool to remain on the bottom shelf forever - that is achievable and it doesn't take much effort - and I wouldn't give you a nickel for it. If you want pool to thrive and succeed and get the respect and attention it deserves, that is possible too - but it has a big price tag on it. It takes a lot more than just showing up to play and win some cash. It takes a lot of hard work, a lot of support - for the game and the promoters and the sponsors - and we need to tear down these walls that we've built that have stopped us from cooperating with each other. Until that happens - I present to you the world of pool - post IPT. Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[elizabeth]

Interesting thread.

Ian was correct in his initial assessment of Kevin Trudeau's IPT.

What does the WPA do for the game of pool? A lot more than what some people in this thread know about.

Elizabeth, your attitude towards the WPA in this thread are typical of many in North America. That is why pocket billiards is thriving everywhere except here. It comes down to the attitude in the U.S. - not the policies of the WPA. I say that respectfully. Many share your point of view, but few get involved in the action to try and make the situation better for everyone involved.

The WPA is part of an organization known as the WCBS, which is the world sanctioning body for all the billiard disciplines. The WPA follows WCBS protocol, sanctioning, and testing guidelines.

When the IPT came into being, Kevin's number one mistake was that he surrounded himself with the wrong people. He surrounded himself with people that told him that he did not need to foster any type of relationship with these organizations. It was the biggest mistake in the history of our game - and who lost? The players, the fans, the industry, and also the IPT.

If Kevin would have surrounded himself with educated people that understood the international marketing potential for pocket billiards, he would not be in the position he is in today. Instead he surrounded himself with people that told him that everybody involved with the sport up until that point had failed them. In truth, the people that were telling him that had failed all by themselves. It was just easier to point fingers at the WPA, the BCA, the UPA, and me - but in reality if you're getting nowhere in your quest for success its because of the man in the mirror.

The IPT could have been a great shot in the arm for our entire industry. The problem was that it satisfied the player's need for money (short term) and not much else. I know of several people that are qualified and motivated to create a pool tour away from the ashes of the IPT. Will people support it? Will players spend more time promoting the sport instead of promoting their gambling efforts? I won't hold my breath.

I was told long ago that you get nothing for nothing and damn little for two cents. If you want pool to remain on the bottom shelf forever - that is achievable and it doesn't take much effort - and I wouldn't give you a nickel for it. If you want pool to thrive and succeed and get the respect and attention it deserves, that is possible too - but it has a big price tag on it. It takes a lot more than just showing up to play and win some cash. It takes a lot of hard work, a lot of support - for the game and the promoters and the sponsors - and we need to tear down these walls that we've built that have stopped us from cooperating with each other. Until that happens - I present to you the world of pool - post IPT. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Sir with great respect I still must remain my position that the WPA and the BCA have in the last 15 years done nothing for the American players and the fact is proven today.How have the professional players benefited?The players were able to make money with the Don Mackey/Camel events and they were disassociated with the WPA and BCA and once again with the IPT Tour which were also disassociated with the BCA and WPA.The players seem to be able to make money when they do go on their own its a matter of eveyone being organized and the players run the association themselves.I do not see where involving the WPA in any of the mens tours would benefit the players at all and having Mr.Anderson send a letter to the players as though they the WPA have been there for them and that now they should include the WPA,in which case the players would have to pay for that.Mr.Anderson and others have stated that the money received would then reflect back to the players in some fashion.I see that never happening it has not before and I dont see it happening in the future.The WPA has expenses so who pays for that? The players do not need the WPA an need to focus on themselves and promoting a Professional Tour with real prize monies $15,000.00 for 1st place in a so called World Championship is a huge joke you had larger prize funds 30 years ago.

 

[JAM]

Sir with great respect I still must remain my position that the WPA and the BCA have in the last 15 years done nothing for the American players and the fact is proven today.How have the professional players benefited?The players were able to make money with the Don Mackey/Camel events and they were disassociated with the WPA and BCA and once again with the IPT Tour which were also disassociated with the BCA and WPA.The players seem to be able to make money when they do go on their own its a matter of eveyone being organized and the players run the association themselves.I do not see where involving the WPA in any of the mens tours would benefit the players at all and having Mr.Anderson send a letter to the players as though they the WPA have been there for them and that now they should include the WPA,in which case the players would have to pay for that.Mr.Anderson and others have stated that the money received would then reflect back to the players in some fashion.I see that never happening it has not before and I dont see it happening in the future.The WPA has expenses so who pays for that? The players do not need the WPA an need to focus on themselves and promoting a Professional Tour with real prize monies $15,000.00 for 1st place in a so called World Championship is a huge joke you had larger prize funds 30 years ago.

I'm singing from the same song sheet as you, Elizabeth.

How mundane it is for one to state players need to stop promoting their gambling habits and do something for the sport? Some American players post up everything in their pockets to follow the tournament trail. It's mighty slim pickings around these parts. Travel hundreds of miles to come in second place and break even is the standard fare on the American tournament trail. If you're lucky to come out ahead, you're gonna need it for the next event. Try going to two, three, and four pool tournaments a month on your own dime, and the reality smacks you right in the face. Pool in these United States of America is a rich man's high, as it currently exists.

The WPA and BCA may be good organizations for its members, but I don't see either of them as a complement to any organization in the U.S.

JMHO, FWIW!

JAM

 

[elizabeth]

Sir with great respect I still must remain my position that the WPA and the BCA have in the last 15 years done nothing for the American players and the fact is proven today.How have the professional players benefited?The players were able to make money with the Don Mackey/Camel events and they were disassociated with the WPA and BCA and once again with the IPT Tour which were also disassociated with the BCA and WPA.The players seem to be able to make money when they do go on their own its a matter of eveyone being organized and the players run the association themselves.I do not see where involving the WPA in any of the mens tours would benefit the players at all and having Mr.Anderson send a letter to the players as though they the WPA have been there for them and that now they should include the WPA,in which case the players would have to pay for that.Mr.Anderson and others have stated that the money received would then reflect back to the players in some fashion.I see that never happening it has not before and I dont see it happening in the future.The WPA has expenses so who pays for that? The players do not need the WPA an need to focus on themselves and promoting a Professional Tour with real prize monies $15,000.00 for 1st place in a so called World Championship is a huge joke you had larger prize funds 30 years ago.

The players that gamble are not the ones I speak of there are many professionals that do not gamble and some that do that would stop if they could afford to do so.The fact that the players are where they are is because they have followed the lead of the BCA and WPA and the UPA what a joke that is.The IPT needs people to help them yes but its not the WPA its the players themselves.The WPA is focused on the games etc. and the Juniors thats fine but they need to stay with that.

 

[JAM]

The players that gamble are not the ones I speak of there are many professionals that do not gamble and some that do that would stop if they could afford to do so.The fact that the players are where they are is because they have followed the lead of the BCA and WPA and the UPA what a joke that is.The IPT needs people to help them yes but its not the WPA its the players themselves.The WPA is focused on the games etc. and the Juniors thats fine but they need to stay with that.

Has there been any recent UPA news? I haven't been following their website, but I was wondering if there is going to be a UPA tour this year.

I do think that there were players who were trying to help the IPT with input. I know of at least two who received phone calls from Kevin Trudeau on their cell phones in my presence, and one gave me the impression that they were "good buds."

I was very happy to see a poker organization be a sponsor for the IPT. I also saw the same poker organization be a sponsor for a bowling tournament which was televised on American TV. This kind of infusion of OUTSIDE monies into the sport here in America is great. Then again, the IPT invested MILLIONS of dollars into the sport to date, and as of today, the players themselves are not the only losers in this mess.

JAM

 

[jay helfert]

Sir with great respect I still must remain my position that the WPA and the BCA have in the last 15 years done nothing for the American players and the fact is proven today.How have the professional players benefited?The players were able to make money with the Don Mackey/Camel events and they were disassociated with the WPA and BCA and once again with the IPT Tour which were also disassociated with the BCA and WPA.The players seem to be able to make money when they do go on their own its a matter of eveyone being organized and the players run the association themselves.I do not see where involving the WPA in any of the mens tours would benefit the players at all and having Mr.Anderson send a letter to the players as though they the WPA have been there for them and that now they should include the WPA,in which case the players would have to pay for that.Mr.Anderson and others have stated that the money received would then reflect back to the players in some fashion.I see that never happening it has not before and I dont see it happening in the future.The WPA has expenses so who pays for that? The players do not need the WPA an need to focus on themselves and promoting a Professional Tour with real prize monies $15,000.00 for 1st place in a so called World Championship is a huge joke you had larger prize funds 30 years ago.

Excuse me but Don Mackey stiffed the players for hundreds of thousands of dollars and stifled an earnest attempt by qualified promoters to establish a pro tour. He basically killed men's professional pool at a time when it had a real chance to succeed. Please don't give this guy any accolades, not on my watch anyway.

He was a low end KT, looking only to line his own pockets with whatever lucre he could obtain. And he did to the detriment of Pool. On the other hand R.J. Reynolds (Camel) was ready to step up to the plate with even more money, before Mackey et al ruined everything with their outrageous demands. Those responsible know who they are. And so do I!