Is Mike Sigel the best ever?

wrldpro

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
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Is Mike Sigel the best ever? Sigel was voted the best living player by billiard digest a few years ago.I personally think it is hard to vote against him otherwise.I think we should ask the fans and most importantly all the top pros in the world today not billiard digest.It is hard to argue against over a 100 titles and many world titles.So my opinion again is this.The best ever should be the best at every game or a world champion at sometime in there playing career.There are so many to choose from to be the best ever but at what game are we talking about here.There has been 5 ways in america to win a world title in america.By my knowledge sigel has won in only 3 of these world championships.9 ball/8 ball & straight pool and of course the other world title for sigel his personality only out done by fats.Here are some player choices for each game i would vote for no certain order since these players have won world titles at these games or were the best at sometime in there playing days.

9-ball SIGEL/VARNER/STRICKLAND/ARCHER/WIMPY LASSITER/EFREN REYES
8 ball SIGEL/VARNER/ REYES
straight pool SIGEL/VARNER/LASSITER/MOSCONI/CRANE/MIZERAK/REMPE
one pocket VARNER/REYES/RONNIE ALLEN/CORNBREAD/GRADY/
bank pool VARNER/EDDIE TAYLOR/BUGSRUCKER/FREDDYBENTIVEGNE/REYES

Please spend a couple of minutes and list your opinion on the best ever players.
 
9 Ball goes to Strickland
8 Ball goes to Reyes
Straight Pool goes to Mosconi
One Pocket goes to Reyes
Bank Pool goes to Bugs

Sigel is not listed in any of these categories but he is certainly top 5 when it comes to 9 Ball Tournament wise.
 
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wrldpro said:
Is Mike Sigel the best ever? Sigel was voted the best living player by billiard digest a few years ago.I personally think it is hard to vote against him otherwise.I think we should ask the fans and most importantly all the top pros in the world today not billiard digest.It is hard to argue against over a 100 titles and many world titles.So my opinion again is this.The best ever should be the best at every game or a world champion at sometime in there playing career.There are so many to choose from to be the best ever but at what game are we talking about here.There has been 5 ways in america to win a world title in america.By my knowledge sigel has won in only 3 of these world championships.9 ball/8 ball & straight pool and of course the other world title for sigel his personality only out done by fats.Here are some player choices for each game i would vote for no certain order since these players have won world titles at these games or were the best at sometime in there playing days.

9-ball SIGEL/VARNER/STRICKLAND/ARCHER/WIMPY LASSITER/EFREN REYES
8 ball SIGEL/VARNER/ REYES
straight pool SIGEL/VARNER/LASSITER/MOSCONI/CRANE/MIZERAK/REMPE
one pocket VARNER/REYES/RONNIE ALLEN/CORNBREAD/GRADY/
bank pool VARNER/EDDIE TAYLOR/BUGSRUCKER/FREDDYBENTIVEGNE/REYES

Please spend a couple of minutes and list your opinion on the best ever players.
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Mike was one of the best prospective players in the late 1970's going into the 1980's. Mike was a world class straight pool player, a great Nine ball player, and a great Eight ball player in other words he was one of the best players from that time. However, Earl Strickland, Jim Rempe, Nick Varner, Louie St. Louis Louie Roberts, and certainly let us not forget the great Buddy Hall were certainly his equal. Now who was the best can not be judged by tournament wins, or by over all wins but only by time itself. We all have opinions, based on many things, and think it certainly fair to say when Mike was in his prime he was certainly in the running.
 
It's really hard to say who's the best ever. Sigel is a front runner for sure...top 3. Here are the best pool players that I've seen. No particular order.

Sigel, Varner, Strictland, Hall, Archer, Reyes, and Bustamante. If Mark Tadd stayed in the game, he would be on the list.

Sigel: Vast knowledge and knows how to win.
Varner: Steady and smooth. Doesn't rattle.
Strickland: A freak! Intimidating with his stroke and fearlessness.
Hall: Does everything right. Methodical stroke. Very diliberate.
Archer: Intense concentration and focus. Amazing stroke and knowledge.
Reyes: Wisdom.
Bustamante: Shot maker deluxe. Always a threat.
 
watchez said:
No -next question
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Agreed! Mike is certainly in the top ten all time, but number one I'm not so sure. I will say this, Mike could play ALL games, 9-Ball, One Pocket, 14.1 and Banks. In his prime, he was the best all around player, with Mizerak and Buddy close behind. Buddy didn't play 14.1 and Miz didn't play Banks. Not that they couldn't play these games, they just didn't. Sigel played all games at the highest level.

Talking pure pool ability, Parica and Efren may have been more talented. Getting down in the trenches and playing for serious cash, Parica was the best ever IMO. Believe me, the great Sigel ducked him more than once. At One Pocket only Efren could be considered a favorite over Mike. At 9-Ball in tournaments, Earl was his equal and may have had more firepower. At 14.1 Sigel reigned supreme for years.

I still think Harold Worst was the best pool player I ever saw, and Parica second. I'm talking about a combination of ability, heart and desire. Worst and Parica would never give up. Of course, Sigel wouldn't either. The more I think about it, the more I like Sigel overall. He played ALL games great, and did know how to win. He just couldn't beat Parica or Buddy for the cheese. I know that and so does he.
 
9 Ball goes to Strickland
8 Ball goes to Reyes
Straight Pool goes to Mosconi
One Pocket goes to Reyes
Bank Pool goes to Bugs

I agree with Fast Lenny. I dont think you could say Sigel was the greatest ever when he's not even considered the best in his game (straight). Some will agree, some wont.
 
wrldpro said:
9-ball SIGEL/VARNER/STRICKLAND/ARCHER/WIMPY LASSITER/EFREN REYES
8 ball SIGEL/VARNER/ REYES
straight pool SIGEL/VARNER/LASSITER/MOSCONI/CRANE/MIZERAK/REMPE
one pocket VARNER/REYES/RONNIE ALLEN/CORNBREAD/GRADY/
bank pool VARNER/EDDIE TAYLOR/BUGSRUCKER/FREDDYBENTIVEGNE/REYES
Click to expand...

I think Greenleaf should at least get mentioned as one of the best straight pool players of all time. For the most part, I like your list.
For all around player, I would have to say Efren, but it is not really fair to those who did not play all of the games.
 
rossaroni said:
I think Greenleaf should at least get mentioned as one of the best straight pool players of all time. For the most part, I like your list.
For all around player, I would have to say Efren, but it is not really fair to those who did not play all of the games.
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There is no doubt that Greenleaf is a coin flip with Mosconi,its very debateable who was the best,Mosconi said Greenleaf was.
 
Best Player?

Miz Won More Tourneys In A Row Than Anyone In The 70's. Mosconi Was Best Strt Pool, Buddy Was Best 9 Ball For The Cash, And St Louie, Ronnie Allen Was Best 1 Pocket, Bugs Best One Pocket, Tayolr Best Banks. Thats My Opinion And I Played Ronnie, Louie, Buddy, And Mosconi In The 70's. Sparky Webb
 
Whoever posted those Accustats vintage issues a couple of months ago (i forgot who it was and am too lazy to find out--sorry! I still would like to thank you though) did everyone a great service. Just from looking at the covers of those issues (from 1985-1989 i think) you'd see that Sigel was featured the most. Reading each individual issue, one would get a sense that in that era (the late 80s) Sigel reigned supreme followed by Hall, Strickland, Varner, Parica, and an up and coming player by the name of Cesar Morales (alias Efren Reyes). I don't know who dominated in the 90s, though, because I didn't get to see the issues (hint! hint!). But early 21st century (the first few years at least) belonged to Efren Reyes. Just my humble opinion.

So, based on dominance during a particular period or decade, it would be different players. But length and quality of service, Reyes probably has this covered.
 
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jay helfert said:
Agreed! Mike is certainly in the top ten all time, but number one I'm not so sure. I will say this, Mike could play ALL games, 9-Ball, One Pocket, 14.1 and Banks. In his prime, he was the best all around player, with Mizerak and Buddy close behind. Buddy didn't play 14.1 and Miz didn't play Banks. Not that they couldn't play these games, they just didn't. Sigel played all games at the highest level.

Talking pure pool ability, Parica and Efren may have been more talented. Getting down in the trenches and playing for serious cash, Parica was the best ever IMO. Believe me, the great Sigel ducked him more than once. At One Pocket only Efren could be considered a favorite over Mike. At 9-Ball in tournaments, Earl was his equal and may have had more firepower. At 14.1 Sigel reigned supreme for years.

I still think Harold Worst was the best pool player I ever saw, and Parica second. I'm talking about a combination of ability, heart and desire. Worst and Parica would never give up. Of course, Sigel wouldn't either. The more I think about it, the more I like Sigel overall. He played ALL games great, and did know how to win. He just couldn't beat Parica or Buddy for the cheese. I know that and so does he.
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It's amazing how tough it is to find something I disagree with Jay on but here is one.

In the mid 70s, Ronnie Allen, all but begged Mike to play even one pocket with Mike taking a pass both times I was witness. In my 60 years on earth, Efren, is the only person I think played better one pocket than, Ronnie.

All players had their "Time Period" of greatness. In the early 70s when Buddy lived in Shreiveport, LA no one had a prayer of beating him playing 9 ball. In the mid 70s, Keith McCready, was the best bar table player alive. Earl, ruled the 9 ball tournament trail for ages.

The greatest pool player I have ever seen, playing all games, is Efren. No one ever invented more moves than Efren. No one had better cue ball control. Efren also has a personality that gives Mike the 6 ball.
 
In an Accu-stats video the commentator asked Efren, "Who is your favorite player?".

Efren replied, "Mike Sigel (pronounced Seeee-gawl, LOL). He just run-out, run-out, run-out."
 
I agree with all thats been said already but I would also add in that when Sigel was playing all the time, IF he got to the finals he might have been the #1 closer of all time. Not to many people beat him in a finals. I have alot of accu-stats and he always seems to win the finals and the commentators have discussed this issue on tape. His record in Tournament finals may be the best in pro pool.
 
Another Opinion

I watched Sigel play in 86 and he destroyed everybody (Starchers Akron Open). He played with such grace and control, I could believe he is the best ever. I have seen videos of Sigel play wide open and again, he was able to do things that defy imagination (Larry Lisciotti Aspen Invitational).

What is most compelling to me, however, isn't what I have seen of Sigel, but what Efren told me about him. I shared an elevator ride with Efren once. Alone, I asked him if he was the best ever...I asked him not to be modest, but to just come out with it. Efren said Sigel, in his prime, was the best he ever played. To me, that pust Sigel at the top among living players.

As for Lassiter, Don Willis, Rags Fitzpatrick, George Rood, Greenleaf I can't really say. Those players were too far before my time and opinions vary. Also, the game in question will certainly give an edge to one player or another.

Lastly, has anybody heard the story that Sigel refused to play Toby Sweet for the cash after being offered the 8? Maybe that says something too.
 
Drawman623 said:
I watched Sigel play in 86 and he destroyed everybody (Starchers Akron Open). He played with such grace and control, I could believe he is the best ever. I have seen videos of Sigel play wide open and again, he was able to do things that defy imagination (Larry Lisciotti Aspen Invitational).

What is most compelling to me, however, isn't what I have seen of Sigel, but what Efren told me about him. I shared an elevator ride with Efren once. Alone, I asked him if he was the best ever...I asked him not to be modest, but to just come out with it. Efren said Sigel, in his prime, was the best he ever played. To me, that pust Sigel at the top among living players.

As for Lassiter, Don Willis, Rags Fitzpatrick, George Rood, Greenleaf I can't really say. Those players were too far before my time and opinions vary. Also, the game in question will certainly give an edge to one player or another.

Lastly, has anybody heard the story that Sigel refused to play Toby Sweet for the cash after being offered the 8? Maybe that says something too.
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I heard Toby Sweet for a brief period was taking on anyone for the cash. :cool:
 
hemicudas said:
It's amazing how tough it is to find something I disagree with Jay on but here is one.

In the mid 70s, Ronnie Allen, all but begged Mike to play even one pocket with Mike taking a pass both times I was witness. In my 60 years on earth, Efren, is the only person I think played better one pocket than, Ronnie.

All players had their "Time Period" of greatness. In the early 70s when Buddy lived in Shreiveport, LA no one had a prayer of beating him playing 9 ball. In the mid 70s, Keith McCready, was the best bar table player alive. Earl, ruled the 9 ball tournament trail for ages.

The greatest pool player I have ever seen, playing all games, is Efren. No one ever invented more moves than Efren. No one had better cue ball control. Efren also has a personality that gives Mike the 6 ball.
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Efren's personality ws miles above Mike's for sure.

Efren was quiet.
 
The "best ever" is a crown that currently sits atop the head of Efren Reyes, and if you talk to Mike on the subject he will disagree and tell you that the best ever was Irving Crane.

Mike is definitely one of the best in history. Nobody has won as many Professional Titles as Mike. Mike is still threat today in any discipline, and I believe we will see that in his head to head 14.1 matchup with John Schmidt.

Our game has so many variables. It is hard to pick that one guy that is able to do it all, and I am glad in my lifetime I got to see Efren from the beginning. I remember when he first came over here playing with that $5 cue and kicking everyone's ass - the only person smiling was Jose Parica.

So to answer this question properly, go to the man himself - and Mike has told me that Irving Crane was the best (according to him).

According to me, Rochester has put out quite a few monster players - must be something in the water - Pat Howey went up there and ran 173 balls back in April. Mike was just up there and ran 224. Perhaps if we held the World Championships in Rochester we'd see some monster high runs. Just a thought.
:p
 
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