Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

[Bob Jewett]

My personal favorite is the shaved or sanded slate. Zero evidence and zero reason to believe any such doctoring happened but once someone says it the list of things that might have happened grows and grows, repeated over and over....

I have been told that beveling the slate by the pocket used to be standard practice back when the rooms charged by the rack like in 1954. Same reason for the giganto 5.5-inch pockets.

Do we really want all of the conditions to be identical?:thumbup:

 

[Bob Jewett]

Bob,

I am working from memory but didn't you try to duplicate that scratch?

Hu

Yes, Doug Desmond and I tried various things for an hour or two including setting the cue ball spinning and trying to knock it along the same path at the same speed. Maybe there was a little curve like half a ball on some shots but I think we saw to the left as often as to the right.

My theory remains that the ball was spinning like a top while sitting on a spot and the spot was slightly bulging.

 

[lfigueroa]

It is somehow less credible that claiming a table has shaved pockets, without evidence?

Interesting

Don't know who is claiming that but it isn't me.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Black-Balled]

I have been told that beveling the slate by the pocket used to be standard practice back when the rooms charged by the rack like in 1954. Same reason for the giganto 5.5-inch pockets.

Do we really want all of the conditions to be identical?:thumbup:

You did stir a memory from the charred corner of my brain, with that.

I had a turn of the century Brunswick that has pockets cut with a rounded edge that absolutely played differently than 90deg cuts.

Slow rolling parallel to the side rail and passing the side pockets was always a thrill.

 

[lfigueroa]

My personal favorite is the shaved or sanded slate. Zero evidence and zero reason to believe any such doctoring happened but once someone says it the list of things that might have happened grows and grows, repeated over and over.

Sent from the future.

Not much different than someone repeatedly posting" I heard" this and that about Mosconi's run.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Like this type of thinking.

Mark Twain quote....a man with a hammer....''everything looks like a nail.":thumbup:

Enjoy your superbowl….

Unedited video would put this all to rest.

Lou Figueroa

 

[jimmyg]

I have been told that beveling the slate by the pocket used to be standard practice back when the rooms charged by the rack like in 1954. Same reason for the giganto 5.5-inch pockets.

Do we really want all of the conditions to be identical?:thumbup:

"Although I am sure that you, and most others, already know this, but lest we forget, let me add that in any mature, professional, sport there are unified and governing bodies that would review any record claims, any claim which would involve doctored equipment, possible doping, or being performed in non sanctioned events, would be immediately dismissed."

 

[alstl]

Yes, Doug Desmond and I tried various things for an hour or two including setting the cue ball spinning and trying to knock it along the same path at the same speed. Maybe there was a little curve like half a ball on some shots but I think we saw to the left as often as to the right.

My theory remains that the ball was spinning like a top while sitting on a spot and the spot was slightly bulging.

Watch it again. Prior to that rack John's designated racker cleaned the cue ball. A few balls later John picked up the cue ball and said "there is a string or something on it" and rubbed it on his glove.

I suspect the "string or something" was a white hair or something - like a string or thread - which accidentally got on the cue ball when his racker cleaned it. I could see something like that getting wound up in a tight ball as the cue ball was spinning and cause the unusual behavior.

 

[lfigueroa]

"Although I am sure that you, and most others, already know this, but lest we forget, let me add that in any mature, professional, sport there are unified and governing bodies that would review any record claims, any claim which would involve doctored equipment, possible doping, or being performed in non sanctioned events, would be immediately dismissed."

We don't have that.

What the BCA should have done is turned the unedited video over to two or more certified 14.1 champions to review and verify the run. And, after viewing the tape they should have stated what criteria they used in terms of fouls; procedures (polishing balls, what end of the table was used, movement and re-spotting of balls); whether standard equipment was used; and whether the run was considered a record practice run or exhibition run and why.

Lou Figueroa

 

[logical]

Unedited video would put this all to rest.



Lou Figueroa

Yeah, right. That wouldn't even slow down some here.

Sent from the future.

 

[Dan Harriman]

too many questions

So once a “record” or “claim” is made, Danny, everyone should respect those circumstances and toss hands up saying “we respect your record and will not try to best it”? Who exactly should (we) protect that sports history from or for, Danny? The guys that have no courage or talent to try their hand at the same exhibition or feat or whatever you want to call it?

How many excuses do you really need, Danny?

You said: “I do not have access to any 4x8's so I doubt I will ever make a legitimate attempt at surpassing it, I mostly practice on 10' table”.

Really? You never had nor will have access to a 4x8 table? And you never really considered what the Mosconi 526 record was achieved ON? Really, Danny? Those are lame comments even by your standards. But you have access to a 10’er.

What else you got?

If yer trying to make me head spin with yer whimsical questions - it won't. Just as I stated earlier - bca should have more accountability for how Pocket Billiard records are surpassed. I have no excuses, if I find a decent 8 ft table and decide to record some runs - I will. It does look like if yer a gold club member - u have many useless questions. Mosconi's era is before my time (as u know already) and yes when I was young I did not know Mosconi's 526 was on the 8', nor that the 8' is more difficult due to the much heavier traffic facet. I never said for sure that I would not have access to an 8' (don't even try yer sleazy tactics- twisting my words or they might take away yer little gold card away synthetic robot). So yes growing up I just thought about putting balls in the pocket and was unaware that his great achievement was performed on the 8' table. Are you trying to say I am a liar? I just would like to see un edited raw footage of the bca's grandiose claim - does this make me the bad guy here? If so then u are seriously dis illusioned' and only making yerself look like silly - as many forum members agree with me bout their little mystery tape scandal. i doubt u have seen the run either - is it yer job to ask me why I want to see proof? if so - yer trying to climb an icy mountain barefoot - look up and you will see an avalanche of others who are just concerned with proper sports record keeping as well.

Also I would add that my standards are much higher than yer's unkind sir, I have a friend who works in Navy intelligence and he is ready to put their tape to the test. Also as I stated earlier - I agree with Lou in that if players West,Varner, and Sigel were to had confirmed the mystery tape - along with my computer engineer friend NAVY intel - it would be a different story. Unless u have some pertinent questions as to why we (general public) are not allowed to see un edited footage u should get back to yer next hustle - not interested in phony people with whimsical questions - designed to dodge the facts.

 

[K2Kraze]

If yer trying to make me head spin with yer whimsical questions - it won't. Just as I stated earlier - bca should have more accountability for how Pocket Billiard records are surpassed. I have no excuses, but it does look like if yer a gold club member - u have many useless questions. Mosconi's era is before my time (as u know already) and yes when I was young I did not understand the distinction between 8' vs 9'. I never said for sure that I would not have access to an 8' (don't even try yer sleazy tactics twisting my words - or they might take away yer little gold card away synthetic robot). So yes growing up I just thought about putting balls in the pocket and was unaware that his great achievement was performed on the 8' table. Are you trying to say I am a liar, or being dishonest for simply wanting to see un edited raw footage of the bca's grandiose claim? If so then u are seriously dis illusioned'.

You’re a funny, funny fellow, Danny.

Reread both your thread post and mine, Danny - no twisting of any words - I simply copied what you had written. So, those would be, to quote you again, your “sleazy words”. Your posts are challenging enough as it is to navigate through your spelling and grammar minefield without trying to make sense of it all.

Carry on, Danny. You’re doing a fine job.



~ K.

 

[ChrisinNC]

Danny, seems like I recall in another thread a while back you were stating that you didn’t think obtaining a high 14.1 run on a 10-footer would be any tougher than on a nine-footer, maybe in fact easier since you have more room to work with. By that premise, wouldn’t it be tougher to obtain a very high 14.1 run on an 8-foot table as opposed to a 9-foot table? You can’t have it both ways.

 

[ShootingArts]

hair

Yes, Doug Desmond and I tried various things for an hour or two including setting the cue ball spinning and trying to knock it along the same path at the same speed. Maybe there was a little curve like half a ball on some shots but I think we saw to the left as often as to the right.

My theory remains that the ball was spinning like a top while sitting on a spot and the spot was slightly bulging.

I looked at your video of the scratch a handful of times. I would think a hair would cling most persistently and be most likely to cause a curve. The ball was clearly spinning but not very fast. It still remains a puzzle as I can't perceive a bulge causing that much effect and not being very noticeable during other shots even without a hair or string.

My old friend that owned a pool hall slipped a weighted cue ball in on me just for fun one day to see how long it would take me to figure it out. He did give me free table time that day! Anyway, I played with that ball for hours sometimes after that, just trying to kick it three rails into the corner, the usual table test. It would appear to roll pretty truly for the three rails but would hook wickedly off of that third rail. Since the hook was unpredictable, it was entertaining for a teenager. That is the only ball I have seen come close to curving as much as the cue ball in the video and I don't think for a moment that the ball in the video was weighted.

I guess the best answer for now is that Willie or one of his friends leaned on the table. Sometimes we have to settle for no answer. I had a very important question many years ago. Ultimately the conditions couldn't be duplicated in a laboratory and I had to take a ten thousand or so loss.

Thanks for the replies and the initial testing. Always interesting even when we can't arrive at solid conclusions.

Hu

 

[ChrisinNC]

If that spinning cue ball, as slow as it was moving, spun up against a tiny speck of chalk on the cloth, that could have caused it to change direction as dramatically as it did.

 

[Dan Harriman]

re read

Danny, seems like I recall in another thread a while back you were stating that you didn’t think obtaining a high 14.1 run on a 10-footer would be any tougher than on a nine-footer, maybe in fact easier since you have more room to work with. By that premise, wouldn’t it be tougher to obtain a very high 14.1 run on an 8-foot table as opposed to a 9-foot table? You can’t have it both ways.

I said I was not sure, as I had not practiced much on the 10'. I did not want to put any limits on my ten' 14.1 practice. After practicing on this ten ft for a while - I now know the longer shots do make the game more difficult than on the 9' by a landslide. Not as many lanes to free up - but the long ball hits outweigh the less congestion. While there are not really any long ball hit's on the 8' - the congestion factor does present more of a problem than the 9' - how many times must I repeat this?

 

[Dan Harriman]

crazy cue ball

They probly threw a crazy cue ball in just as a distraction for those of us who would like to see the raw un edited footage of this mystery tape. I will defeat anyone at the bca in a long set of 14.1 - on respectable table (no quacky doctored conditions) 'seven ways to Sunday'. I aint uh skeerd'' of the governing body of hustlers. Also I would add that in my 351 - with commentary - there was a visible triangle line. It did not show up well on computer but if yall look close it's there. I would never try to record runs without - that is called cheating.

 

[Bob Jewett]

If that spinning cue ball, as slow as it was moving, spun up against a tiny speck of chalk on the cloth, that could have caused it to change direction as dramatically as it did.

No, because the curve was not a sharp turn. It was a gradual curve starting, as I see it, when the cue ball passed the side pockets. The ball gradually came over about 10 inches for the scratch, since it was initially headed just inside the first diamond on the head rail.

As for: "The ball was clearly spinning but not very fast."

The cue ball was spinning like a top because John hit it with extreme right english. You can see a row of dots spinning around the "equator" of the cue ball as it slowly moves up table. That only happens on extreme side spin shots when the cue ball hits something to take away its speed, leaving the spin.

 

[Texas Carom Club]

Really reaching for it now (pun intended)

 

[markjames]

Yup i a likes me sum staticelectri city theories