It Looks Like Pool Will Be Changing Soon

Johnnyt

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
There is suddenly changes being made to improve tournaments. Bad apples are being banned, players are starting to dress better and behave better, and promoters are under the magnifying glass.

16 player tournaments are being held in good poolrooms where everything is already there. All the poolroom needs to do is print flyers, promote on AZB and FB, call or e-mail players or they can hire a TD to do it. $500 to $2000 entry fees with no added $ seems to be the way to go. It would be nice if 12 nice poolrooms/sports bars could form a once a month tour stop. Each room only need to put one on a year.

I think more players are staying away from tournaments that don't smell right and/or are too many days. Also, promoters and TD's are banning players that don't behave at their tournament. I think after a warning for most things behaving bad, 1 or 2 tournament sit-outs is about right. If they are let back in and didn't wise up, then ban them completely.
 
Johnnyt said:
There is suddenly changes being made to improve tournaments. Bad apples are being banned, players are starting to dress better and behave better, and promoters are under the magnifying glass.

16 player tournaments are being held in good poolrooms where everything is already there. All the poolroom needs to do is print flyers, promote on AZB and FB, call or e-mail players or they can hire a TD to do it. $500 to $2000 entry fees with no added $ seems to be the way to go. It would be nice if 12 nice poolrooms/sports bars could form a once a month tour stop. Each room only need to put one on a year.

I think more players are staying away from tournaments that don't smell right and/or are too many days. Also, promoters and TD's are banning players that don't behave at their tournament. I think after a warning for most things behaving bad, 1 or 2 tournament sit-outs is about right. If they are let back in and didn't wise up, then ban them completely.
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Indeed, Johnnyt. After a bit of inefficiency, the pool industry here in the U.S. is beginning to look more efficient,
e.g. driving away the "bad apples" as you say and attracting those that see the potential for better-run opportunities.

But this is not "sudden" by any means.
You know as well as everyone else on here that it takes going through some industry "pain" to improve things.
Ideas need to presented and tried (and failed). Others see tangential paths based on previous ideas.

But let's not assume things will improve based on one successful invitational tournament (the one that Bergman snapped off).
It's going to take time. When things look bad we shouldn't be captious, and so it goes, we shouldn't get excited too quickly when
things look good.

And to all you pessimists out there...be patient. I'm telling you. In a few more years pool will be a quality sport.
Tourney directors, sponsors, players and everyone in between will see the gates open into a whole new era of pool.

I repeat, be patient.
 
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No added money?
How do pool players make money?

$2000 entry fee?
Wouldn't most participants be better off financially if there was no entry fee and they simply play for bragging rights?

But where is the glory in that.

Don't understand pool finances. :scratchhead:
 
Scaramouche said:
No added money?
How do pool players make money?

$2000 entry fee?
Wouldn't most participants be better off financially if there was no entry fee and they simply play for bragging rights?

But where is the glory in that.

Don't understand pool finances. :scratchhead:
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Scaramouche. The improvement in our industry is not going to be the big return to "glory" of yesteryear.
Pool is going to improve, yes, but the improvement will be in quality not quantity.
Pool's face will change indeed, and for the better. The professional will see better payouts, but at a cost of higher entries.
"Invitationals" will be one of the benchmarks so as to ensure better player "behavior." A bar will be set and others will follow.

Don't expect this to be the 90s Camel Pro Tour. Pool is going to change. Everything does as we know.
 
I wish I could feel optimistic.

I think what we're seeing is, pool is in such a dismal state, and the money is so weak,
that the people who run events are forced to keep them small, limit the number of days,
run them lean, and be careful to make sure the few players and spectators are happy.

Promoters are getting a lot of flak if they choose to do anything that might
be construed as trying to make a profit, such as keeping a portion
of the calcutta, increasing entry fees, and charging green fees.

I think pool was probably healthier when it had weeklong events held in convention centers & hotels
rather than small pool rooms, with huge fields, low entry, and players who
sort of had too much 'star power' to ban.
 
To create business synergy every participant must come out a winner in some way

This is the same formula that's failed for years, and years, and years.

The formula is this "20% Win and 80% Lose"......this never has and never will be a good business model. To create business synergy every participant must come out a winner, in one way, shape or form. 'The Game is the Teacher'


Johnnyt said:
There is suddenly changes being made to improve tournaments. Bad apples are being banned, players are starting to dress better and behave better, and promoters are under the magnifying glass.

16 player tournaments are being held in good poolrooms where everything is already there. All the poolroom needs to do is print flyers, promote on AZB and FB, call or e-mail players or they can hire a TD to do it. $500 to $2000 entry fees with no added $ seems to be the way to go. It would be nice if 12 nice poolrooms/sports bars could form a once a month tour stop. Each room only need to put one on a year.

I think more players are staying away from tournaments that don't smell right and/or are too many days. Also, promoters and TD's are banning players that don't behave at their tournament. I think after a warning for most things behaving bad, 1 or 2 tournament sit-outs is about right. If they are let back in and didn't wise up, then ban them completely.
Click to expand...
 
How can you charge someone a $2000 entry for a $10000 prize and call that successful? That is what is called gambling. Until pool players can be like those that enter tournaments in other sports (ie small if any entry fee- and a LARGE prize pool not created by players entry fees) then this is really no change at all.

Bob
 
doitforthegame said:
How can you charge someone a $2000 entry for a $10000 prize and call that successful? That is what is called gambling. Until pool players can be like those that enter tournaments in other sports (ie small if any entry fee- and a LARGE prize pool not created by players entry fees) then this is really no change at all.

Bob
Click to expand...

You hit it right on
 
Scaramouche said:
No added money?
How do pool players make money?

$2000 entry fee?
Wouldn't most participants be better off financially if there was no entry fee and they simply play for bragging rights?

But where is the glory in that.

Don't understand pool finances. :scratchhead:
Click to expand...

The no added is in the start up. If goes over well some sponsorship should follow allowing some added money down the road. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
The no added is in the start up. If goes over well some sponsorship should follow allowing some added money down the road. Johnnyt
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You know, Johnnyt? People on here complain about everything.
They feel a new idea or start-up has to have ALL the questions answered on day one.
They can't just appreciate someone doing something for pool without resorting to "throwing pie."

(Not talking about you).

I give up on his particular thread.
 
I think the original post pertains to pool in America more than pool in general.

I see this year as something of an experiment. We'll see how the promoters fare and the extent to which sponsors and patrons support invitational events.

Of course, if invitational events are going to be the rule, all but the most elite (meaning the guys who tend to post many top ten finishes today) may have to earn their income from pool at the regional tour or local tournament level and from giving lessons and doing exhibitions. Should it come to that, one would have to expect many pros to give up on trying to earn a living at pool.

Tough to say for sure where our game is headed in America.
 
sjm said:
I think the original post pertains to pool in America more than pool in general.

I see this year as something of an experiment. We'll see how the promoters fare and the extent to which sponsors and patrons support invitational events.

Of course, if invitational events are going to be the rule, all but the most elite (meaning the guys who tend to post many top ten finishes today) may have to earn their income from pool at the regional tour or local tournament level and from giving lessons and doing exhibitions. Should it come to that, one would have to expect many pros to give up on trying to earn a living at pool.

Tough to say for sure where our game is headed in America.
Click to expand...

Yes, pool in America. JT
 
Johnnyt said:
The no added is in the start up. If goes over well some sponsorship should follow allowing some added money down the road. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Obviously need some big sponsor or "sugar daddy" make the numbers jive. Say if there are 1000 tourneys per year in US and each tourney makes average loss of $5K, only need $5 million to sustain whole industry per year.
There are tonnes of pool fans in new young tech rich in Silicon Valley. Most tech firms like Google have pool tables and wannabe pool players. It is the recreational game for young rich techies. To these new rich billionaires like Brin, Page, Zuckerberg, Musk $5 million is pocket change to them. Even average low level worker in newly IPO firm is worth millions $$. Make it into an investment and brand building/marketing thing for those who put up the money. Bring the game and pros "Save Pool" roadshow to Silicon Valley and I am sure they will put together few million $$ to save the pool industry.
:)
 
doitforthegame said:
How can you charge someone a $2000 entry for a $10000 prize and call that successful?
Bob
Click to expand...

I seem to recall that before snooker hit the big time in the UK, the World Championship had an entry fee of 100 pounds.
First prize was less than 500 pounds.

So what Johnny envisions as an 'improvement' is where snooker was when mired in the muck.

Snooker has had a recognized and respected 'world championship' and the player who won it earned name recognition and could make a living giving exhibitions.

To give exhibitions requires talent to entertain and inform, not just ability with a cue.
Mike Massey and The Black Widow understand this, but the unwashed horde of American pool players constantly demanding:
'Someone, Anyone, Money Me!'
don't consider this part of the deal - witness their dress and deportment.
Not to mention their refusal to organize so they can participate in an organized sport.
 
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boogeyman said:
Scaramouche. The improvement in our industry is not going to be the big return to "glory" of yesteryear.
Pool is going to improve, yes, but the improvement will be in quality not quantity.
Pool's face will change indeed, and for the better. The professional will see better payouts, but at a cost of higher entries.
"Invitationals" will be one of the benchmarks so as to ensure better player "behavior." A bar will be set and others will follow.

Don't expect this to be the 90s Camel Pro Tour. Pool is going to change. Everything does as we know.
Click to expand...

I will believe it when streams count hit 20k on hot matches, or higher, then pool promoters will pick and choose sponsors, not beg them to accept to sponsor as the case now! prize money will sky rocket, Budweiser will start want on the action!! that will be the day!
 
Scaramouche said:
I seem to recall that before snooker hit the big time in the UK, the World Championship had an entry fee of 100 pounds.
First prize was less than 500 pounds.

So what Johnny envisions as an 'improvement' is where snooker was when mired in the muck.

Snooker has had a recognized and respected 'world championship' and the player who won it earned name recognition and could make a living giving exhibitions.

To give exhibitions requires talent to entertain and inform, not just ability with a cue.
Mike Massey and The Black Widow understand this, but the unwashed horde of American pool players constantly demanding:
'Someone, Anyone, Money Me!'
don't consider this part of the deal - witness their dress and deportment.
Not to mention their refusal to organize so they can participate in an organized sport.
Click to expand...

I agree with most of your post, but please don't compare snooker to pool in the UK. Snooker allows legal gambling. Take that away and 75% of the fans will leave to go watch other sports they can gamble on legally. JT
 
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