JA vs MD push out after the break match.

sure

Triple-facepalm-76680723777.jpeg
 
Leave their opponent stymied.

The league I play in, USAPL, has very similar rules, aside from the "miss and hook the other guy" issue. I wish more places and tournaments played this way.

I had to watch a guy I played in a tournament finals miss 4 balls in one rack and make them all in, the first game he missed his shot, put me in the pocket opening, with a ball between the one ball. On the hill-hill game, he missed the 7, it banked off the points into the opposite corner pocket. Guy missed about 10 shots in 5 games and won because every time he missed, he either made it into another pocket or hooked me. I asked him to play some for cash with called shot rules after that, which he very nicely ignored.

Yes, the "miss and hook" situation is another reason it's more fun to play "Push Out Rules"...one foul has a lot more luck than you "real eyes," unless you're actually playing the game. Sometimes players flat out "dog it" in key situations and leave their opponent stymied.
Frost-Stymied.jpg
That's just brutal to fade.

One Foul can still be a great game, these issues just need to be resolved, not for any one player, just for the integrity of the Game.
 
Watchez, That is where my idea fails. Obvious shit sometimes goes right by me, I keep looking for the difficult stuff. You are right, please all Ignor my thoughts on the break.

They could supersoft break like those guys do in 8 ball, with a few dozen safetys after.

The problem is that everybody allows slop wins from the APA to the pros. Playing handicapped events, with spotted balks wild on the break, plus slop 9 balls and safetys has ruined the game. It only rewards the weaker player, which defeats the purpose of competition. All sports have slop, but in others its enough to keep it interesting...in slop 9ball it is overwhelming.

Mike, make a counteroffer on a game with JA and lets do this. Sometimes you gotta give the people what they want. Sounds like you could great odds from the naysayers anyway.
 
Last edited:
Pretty obvious Mike dumped to Shane to set Johnny and Fatboy up for the big score.
 
The mandatory push after the break, allows your opponent to choose if he wants to shoot the shot, or pass it back to you. Just like "having the option" to push out now, but it's mandatory. Not too many makeable shots will be pushed out, just like they do now. Most push out's either produce an option to play safe, or tie up a ball and leave a difficult shot. Either way, your opponent has an option to get to the table every game, and there are no packages run by simply breaking well.

Perfect....sounds pretty much like the way 14.1 and one hole start off.
 
I vote for fun. Call nothing in any short game!

Take a good lesson from highly successfully sports. They don't call anything. The right amount of luck makes for a good and exciting game.

Everyone over analyzes all of this. Fun is what works.


:dance::woot::dance::woot::dance::woot:
 
I vote for fun. Call nothing in any short game!

Take a good lesson from highly successfully sports. They don't call anything. The right amount of luck makes for a good and exciting game.

Everyone over analyzes all of this. Fun is what works.

I don't think I have seen a baseball player swing, miss the ball, have it hit off the catcher's facemask, bounce back to the players bat on the backswing, and then sail 300 feet forward for a home run. Maybe darts? Trow, miss the number you want, dart dings off the metal, into a beer glass on the side, back to the right place on the board. There maybe some luck in a golf shot if you hit the right bump of grass to roll in the right direction, but we're talking about a 1" ball on a huge area, not a 2.25" ball on a pool table, people are obviously not going to be able to aim for a 4 inch spot on the green to hit and be able to hit it, no matter how good you are. If people want luck, go to a casino, I play pool because it tests my ability to do what I want on purpose.
 
I don't think I have seen a baseball player swing, miss the ball, have it hit off the catcher's facemask, bounce back to the players bat on the backswing, and then sail 300 feet forward for a home run. Maybe darts? Trow, miss the number you want, dart dings off the metal, into a beer glass on the side, back to the right place on the board. There maybe some luck in a golf shot if you hit the right bump of grass to roll in the right direction, but we're talking about a 1" ball on a huge area, not a 2.25" ball on a pool table, people are obviously not going to be able to aim for a 4 inch spot on the green to hit and be able to hit it, no matter how good you are.

Most popular sport on the planet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT5nt0qRVJw

If people want luck, go to a casino, I play pool because it tests my ability to do what I want on purpose.

This is like me saying if you want to eliminate luck, go and play chess.

Pool involves luck from time to time. Not a huge amount, but some. Removing luck from pool just goes further in alienating the already vast majority of people who don't give a shit about the game.
 
I vote for fun. Call nothing in any short game!

Take a good lesson from highly successfully sports. They don't call anything. The right amount of luck makes for a good and exciting game.

Everyone over analyzes all of this. Fun is what works.

There is no equation for what might appeal to the public. The public can be illogical. Many times, especially where recreation and sports are concerned, equally unfair is much more fun than equally fair.

Everyone should stop trying to make pool harder and more tedious than it already is.
 
Time to bring back the Sardo

I'll tell you exactly why....because as soon as the balls didnt do exactly what the breaker wanted he would start b!tching that the ref was screwing him. If the breaker was making balls on the break and running out the other player would start b!tching saying the ref was screwing him.

All you have to do is look at the final few matches of the US Open every year where the ref's rack the balls to see that it causes as many problems as it solves.

If you had a trained midget unicorn rack the balls perfectly 100% of the time people would still complain. Its just the nature of the game and the people who play it.

As for the whole "take the break out of the game because I dont want to practice it"line of thinking I say "Whatever". If someone really thinks that is the answer then they should put their money where their mouth is and put on some matches with those rules to prove their point. I'll hold my breath.
 
ix this, and give the incoming player the option to pass the shot back

I don't think I have seen a baseball player swing, miss the ball, have it hit off the catcher's facemask, bounce back to the players bat on the backswing, and then sail 300 feet forward for a home run. Maybe darts? Trow, miss the number you want, dart dings off the metal, into a beer glass on the side, back to the right place on the board. There maybe some luck in a golf shot if you hit the right bump of grass to roll in the right direction, but we're talking about a 1" ball on a huge area, not a 2.25" ball on a pool table, people are obviously not going to be able to aim for a 4 inch spot on the green to hit and be able to hit it, no matter how good you are. If people want luck, go to a casino, I play pool because it tests my ability to do what I want on purpose.

I agree, golf would be silly if you missed a putt and it somehow went in another hole. How about missing a three pointer in basketball and it bounces up and finds another rim.

How many end zones in football? How about hockey, tennis, ping pong, fussball, soccer, etc.....there's only one target in any of these sports and games. There is always going to be luck in pool and that's true with most sports and games, the difference is there's 5 extra targets in pool that should not be there.

Fix this, and give the incoming player the option to pass the shot back and you have yourself a much better game. The rules now are not sophisticated enough, no one will argue with that. ;) Unless, of course you want to.:groucho:
cant-argue-with-that.jpg
 
Fix this, and give the incoming player the option to pass the shot back and you have yourself a much better game. The rules now are not sophisticated enough,

This is all very well intentioned, well thought out, and very reasonable. It should work...but...players and spectators can be confounding. They like what they like and they don't like what they don't like. They will only do and watch what they like. There is little predictability here.

You are taking away the break, the break and run, and replacing it with a push-out and safelty dual to start each game. I don't see it. I see torture and misery but I do root for you. I have been wrong before. Lord knows, regulation-table pool needs to book a winner.
 
Last edited:
This deserves to be re-posted. C.J., This is not a stupid man. He is giving you his experience and expert opinion.

Speaking for me personally I hate seeing guys bunt balls around. I like seeing top guys run out and be dynamic when playing rotation games. Anyone who like the moving aspect can play or watch one pocket. Thats the best game for that type of thing anyway.

Part of me wants to do a roll out after the break with the old school two shot roll out rules just to show what it really would look like. I am positive after it was over people would be saying "Well that sucked to watch." You would have a safety battle at the beginning or EVERY rack. Now put those rules on tight pockets. Your potential audience is now people over sixty with OCD and self masochistic tendencies. That will really bring those new viewers to the game.

Players need to understand and I mean really get the fact that when people are paying to watch you play a game it is not about what the players think makes it most even for them it is about what entertains the people paying the bills. Thats the fans by the way.

I make my living selling pro pool to people. I do more events than anyone else in the country. People who pay to watch to pro pool like watching pro's put balls in the pockets not kick them around and play hide and seek. This isnt an opinion. This is fact based off of experience.
 
I would think the best tourny to find out who runs out the best would be racking 10 to 13 balls and playing the ghost rotating turns and race to a certain number. This would be all offence and should gain a audience if thats what people really want to see and Justins opinion is correct..
 
I would think the best tourny to find out who runs out the best would be racking 10 to 13 balls and playing the ghost rotating turns and race to a certain number. This would be all offence and should gain a audience if thats what people really want to see and Justins opinion is correct..

I dont see how you get that from my statement. What you describe is not pool to me. Its practice or at best a gambling prop bet.

Based on my experience people just want to see good pool. With rules they are used to and regular equipment. Thats what my experience tells me. Not my opinion or theory but what has actually happened over the last five years of selling pool. If people don't believe me or disagree thats fine.

I think someone should do some different kinds of matches. All it takes is time and money.
 
I'm uploading a match on Youtube from the Country Calvin Classic held in June of 2011. It was 2 foul pushout 9 ball. Total payout was @35k. Great event. There will be another one of these soon.

CJ Wiley v Kevin Guimond

Ray
 
I forgot how to use the TOI

I'm uploading a match on Youtube from the Country Calvin Classic held in June of 2011. It was 2 foul pushout 9 ball. Total payout was @35k. Great event. There will be another one of these soon.

CJ Wiley v Kevin Guimond

Ray

I may get a lot of action after people watch this match. :thumbup: This was during a period that I forgot how to use the TOI and was using TOO.....much.:wink:
 
We'll just have to agree to disagree

This deserves to be re-posted. C.J., This is not a stupid man. He is giving you his experience and expert opinion.

We'll just have to agree to disagree....Paul, you two have different opinions that I do....no harm, no foul. I'm only interested in TV Production, not streaming video, it's a completely different world dealing with the general public.
 
We'll just have to agree to disagree....Paul, you two have different opinions that I do....no harm, no foul. I'm only interested in TV Production, not streaming video, it's a completely different world dealing with the general public.

I just got into this reading this thread & I would agree with you CJ. The general public perceives making a ball on the break as luck & would perceive a break & run as... 'well he got lucky on the break, that's why he won.'

The push out battle would be a competition & the general public wants to see competition not luck, even though we know the break is more than just luck even though luck is still in there.

Best of 'Luck' in everything You do & Best Regards to You &
 
Last edited:
Back
Top