Jay Swanson Memorial Tournament (Question)

[itsfroze]

It's the room owners that make it look bad. Example they are adding 4k to the tournament but they r charging $5488 in green fees so again it's kinda to me false advertising an the owner sounding like he's doing something really good. Lol

It is stated up front that they are taking $28 dollars out of every entry.

HOW IS THAT FALSE ADVERTISING ?

The only thing false here is you trying to make a big deal out of something
that is clearly stated. What's up with that??????

He is doing something really good, instead off keeping the $5,488 for himself.
He's keeping $1,488 for himself and taking $4,000 (that he could be putting in the bank)
and putting it into the prize fund for the players.

What do you want them to say? That they are taking $7.75 out of each entry ?
That would be 192 x $7.75 = $1,488, and no money added.
Which way do you think will attract more entries?
Saying you're adding $4,000 or saying you're adding nothing?

Every company in America that advertises tries to make their company sound better than the next guys
but you think it's wrong for the pool room owner to do the same, interesting?
Especially when the pool room owner is stating exactly what he is doing up front. Not to mention if he doesn't
present the added money that way how does he protect himself from the guy down the street that does?

Which is still far far more transparent than what most of the company's you see advertising on TV are doing.

 

[spanky79]

If the promoters are unable to raise this money from alternate sources are they supposed to just NOT hold the tournament???

I mean it's not like the flyer doesn't explain that there are registration fees.

No one is being misled IMO.

IF the flyer says 28 dollar registration fee as part of the registration for the tournament, then the payout monies are the $60.

You know that coming into the tournament.

Then they are adding $4000 on top of the $60 per person. Whether the added money is more or less than the registration fees is moot.

If they were being dishonest about it, you wouldn't even KNOW about that until after the tourney is over and the payouts have occurred.

This tournament is a full 192 players every year.

It's the best two day tourney period. Some of the best players, the best atmosphere, it's a lot crammed into two days but it is one hell of an experience.

If it was so bad I would think they would have trouble filling it up, but they don't. There's almost always a waiting list to get in.

I remember the first year you couldn't register the day of because it had filled up in advance, there were a lot of pissed off people that should have planned in advance.

IF you want to have a tourney that adds $4000 on top of all player paid amounts, then try to promote a tourney yourself and see how far you get.

Jaden

the only problem is calling it an added tournament when the added money comes from the players in the first place. See you on friday for practice. My last count was 162 already signed up. Looks like a full field again this year.

 

[spanky79]

Why doesn't Hard Times get a liquor license?

I am pretty sure they are not able to get one based on location. There is a church right next door. I don`t know if that matters or not but they have never had one. If hey did I don`t think it would be a very pleasant place to go anyway. It is not in the nicest of areas. The crazy part is they are still open after all these years simply with table time. It`s not like its a small place and they have very minimal food to speak of.

 

[EJmagnum186]

It is the room owners responsibility to cover the expenses and the only money that is guaranteed is the players entry fee so that is where it is pulled from. Think about it, they are taking $28 off of the top and $3 is going to CSI who essentially won't make a dime. You as a room owner are going to tie up your entire room for 2-3 days and basically kick all of your regular customers to the back burner for the weekend and those people come in and pay your rent and payroll the other 360 days a year while the large majority of the tournament players won't set foot back in your place until next years event and will act like an ass and ***** all weekend.....so yeah $25 to the house to host isn't insane at all.

As far as it is their responsibility to raise the funds with sponsorship let me put a different spin on this. You want a room owner or CSI to go out and take time to make calls, meet with people to craft deals, edit, proof read, rewrite flyers and put their own time and money and reputation at risk to put on an event that may or may not make money and give it to the players for gracing them with their unappreciative presence while they gripe about equipement, bring in food and drinks from the outside and complain everything from the payout to the type of toilet paper in the bathroom and $28 greens fee while they are all trying to get the nuts and match up for $500+ sets. I am sorry but where I come from if I am doing all the work and putting my neck on the line you are damn right that I should be the one to profit from my hard efforts.

Jmurphy this is NOT directed at you personally in any way shape or form as I don't know you or anything about you and you simply posed a question....it is just that I have heard this argument and question for years from players who really don't understand or care how it impacts a room owner. I am not saying I am right just my opinion.

 

[itsfroze]

2015
Jay Swanson Memorial Tournament
NO ADDED MONEY
hurry and sign-up <---> don't get left out

OR​

2015
Jay Swanson Memorial Tournament
$4,000 ADDED TO PRIZE FUND
hurry and sign-up <-----> don't get left out

Which way do you think will attract more entries?

If they listen to some of you.

In 2016 their add might look like this.​

2016
Jay Swanson Memorial Tournament
NO ADDED MONEY
TOURNAMENT CANCELLED <--------> THANKS FOR THE ADVICE​

 

[BasementDweller]

I no it's not PC around here to be critical about how tournaments are advertised but I'm sort of with the OP on this (at least with the "Added Money" business). There have been other posts on this subject recently too.

For me, I really don't care if everybody does it this way -- it's still flat out misleading to take a certain percentage of the entry fees out and then put a percentage of those fees back in and call it added money. It's silly really. Just because pool is in such a sad state doesn't mean that you can't point out the obvious about how these tournaments are marketed.

If the initial poster's numbers are right then there are ZERO added dollars to this tournament. On the bright side it appears that there is very little money taken out of the prize fund for operating expenses (if the 4,000 isn't taken out).

That's how I see it.

 

[SpeedyPete84]

Once again just another person who is missing the whole point of this thread..........

It's the promoter's responsibility to RAISE the money to cover the cost of running the tournament. Be creative for a change hit the streets, make some calls, groom a few sponsors and of course have the fans do their part to cover the expenses of running the tournament.
It's damn difficult for a Full Time Professional Pool Player to earn a living and looking to the players to cover the expenses makes it that much harder to grow the sport.

Remind me again why a sponsor would kick in that kind of money? The whole point of sponsorship is return on investment and that flat out isn't happening in pool today. Simple.

Don't you think these "big name" sponsors are already shelling out a pretty penny to cover the many other events they subsidize along with getting the top pro players to use their gear and promote it? They have to make profit to even out all these subsidies they're giving out as it is. Kicking in $5000 every time there's a regional tournament probably isn't the best business plan for them.

Your assertion that these deep pocketed mystery sponsors should shell out money every time there is a tournament doesn't hold water in today's economy/the state of the sport.

I would say: consider yourself lucky that the poolroom is even holding the tournament to begin with. Most, if not all, of these big "added money" tournaments are a break even proposition AT BEST for the room owners. They do it to keep people coming in and to keep the sport alive while putting little if anything in their own pockets. Often times it ends up being a net loss.

 

[itsfroze]

This tournament has been run for 18 years now.

How about a big THANK YOU for running this tournament for so long.
To everyone involved, Thank You !!!

The man plainly stated that $28.00 will be taken out of each entry fee.

So maybe it's not PC around here to state the obvious when the obvious
has already been stated.

 

[itsfroze]

the only problem is calling it an added tournament when the added money comes from the players in the first place. See you on friday for practice. My last count was 162 already signed up. Looks like a full field again this year.

The flaw in thinking comes from assuming that because the money was the players
in the first place that it still is when it's being added. The last hand that holds the money
is who is adding the money, once the moneys ($28 per entry) has been taken out it's no longer the players money.

 

[BasementDweller]

I think the best way to answer the "Added Money" question would be to ask 10 non pool playing people what they would expect the "Added Money" to mean exactly.

I think their answers would not reflect what the standard practice has become in the pool world.

That makes it misleading to me.

 

[blah blah]

The people that complain about the green fees are the ones always looking to get some free table time, order a glass of water, and maybe even swipe that piece of new chalk!

Pool players,,, SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOT 100% OF THEM, JUST 95% SUCK! And that's what is ruining the sport

...while the large majority of the tournament players won't set foot back in your place until next years event and will act like an ass and ***** all weekend.....
... an event that may or may not make money and give it to the players for gracing them with their unappreciative presence while they gripe about equipement, bring in food and drinks from the outside and complain everything from the payout to the type of toilet paper in the bathroom and $28 greens fee while they are all trying to get the nuts and match up for $500+ sets..

If somebody doesn't like it, the solution is very simple: Don't play in it.

I would say: consider yourself lucky that the poolroom is even holding the tournament to begin with.

In the last year and a half, I got busy with other things. Instead of traveling around, chasing tourneys, planning my vacations around visiting rooms in other cities and states, I've largely only been going to my one and only favorite poolroom. They always make me feel special and wanted.

But yeah, the solution is very simple with this constant attitude of hating the players.

I really don't feel any need to support any other places or tournaments anymore.

 

[3RAILKICK]

192 x 3 = 576 is CSI take

192 x 25 = 4800 registration to room

minus-4000 funding 'added'

net= 800 to room to cover lost revenue 2 days

plus ??? door gate

plus ??? increased sales of snickers bars and m/wave burgers




players play for 192 x 60=11520 + 4000=15520


imho the players win

so, thanks to HT and CSI

 

[itsfroze]

Tap Tap Tap

 

[poolhustler]

Is this a bad place to bark for action?

I'm your Huckleberry

 

[watchez]

192 x 3 = 576 is CSI take

192 x 25 = 4800 registration to room

minus-4000 funding 'added'

net= 800 to room to cover lost revenue 2 days

plus ??? door gate

plus ??? increased sales of snickers bars and m/wave burgers




players play for 192 x 60=11520 + 4000=15520


imho the players win

so, thanks to HT and CSI

Plus what the room does in additional revenue on the day(s) before and after the tournament due to the influx of players in the area or just play in general as people get geared up for the tournament.

 

[n10spool]

Bet the rail every match to maximize your income on your day off to from work to play pool and get your $5.00 green free back for the day.

Or what would Bucktooth do if he was playing pool and not running the tournament or owning the business.

 

[Mark Griffin]

Here is what I had posted on an earlier thread. I'm not sure if people understand the costs and time it takes to do an event. The host room basically gives up 75% of their income. CSI loses money every year because of the expenses.

We do this because I want to see the vent continue. But with all the computer cowboys and their 'opinion' just makes me want to thro in the towel.

If anyone ever has any questions on this event - all they have to do is pick up the phone and call me: 702-719-7665. That way maybe you will get the actual truth instead of what you 'think' is going on.

As far as the bitc*ing goes - I could care less at this point. I am always open for constructive criticism - but I'm just not interested in listening to the same out crap.

If you are not going to be part of the solution - you might be part of the problem.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



18thJay Swanson Memorial 9-Ball - presented by CSI - 12-19-2013, 11:02 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure if I should respond to this post but in the spirit of full disclosure I will try.

Hard Times is a busy pool room. It does NOT have food or much food. Their only source of revenue is table time. The Swanson Memorial takes all of the tables on Saturday until 9 PM or so and most of the tables for a couple of hours on Sunday and then only 10 tables or so for the rest of the day.

Having this event seriously affects their sales for the 2 days. This event is 'at best' a break even proposition. There are a lot of costs to doing an event.

Because of health issues, I will not be able to actually run the event myself - this added about $800 in expenses.

Without any 'sponsors' this is the best we can do. I strongly suggest you and others come up with a better concept - and I will support it. Until then, please respect this long running event for what it is - to honor Jay Swanson and to provide the California pool community an annual 'get together'.

I do object to 'only $4,000 added' - most sports do not have ADDED money events. Be a part of the solution and not part of the problem. Also, there are very few rooms with the number of tables needed to do this event. We have use of 25 or 26 9' tables.

I do welcome constructive comments.
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI


imissedthe9 said:
This is a no money added tournament.
25 dollar green fee Plus 3 dollar processing fee. 28x192= 5,376
Only 4 k added with a full 192. In other words the players are paying to have this tournament held

But charging a green fee and "adding money" sounds better
Pool players can complain as much as they want about it but it's all they have.

 

[pt109]

I think the best way to answer the "Added Money" question would be to ask 10 non pool playing people what they would expect the "Added Money" to mean exactly.

I think their answers would not reflect what the standard practice has become in the pool world.

That makes it misleading to me.

If you got to play in this room for $28 worth of table time...it's not a bad deal.
That $28 is THEIR money......
....and they're adding a lot of it to the tournament.

And the flyer is very honest...everybody knows what's going on.

 

[TATE]

Here is what I had posted on an earlier thread. I'm not sure if people understand the costs and time it takes to do an event. The host room basically gives up 75% of their income. CSI loses money every year because of the expenses.

We do this because I want to see the vent continue. But with all the computer cowboys and their 'opinion' just makes me want to thro in the towel.

If anyone ever has any questions on this event - all they have to do is pick up the phone and call me: 702-719-7665. That way maybe you will get the actual truth instead of what you 'think' is going on.

As far as the bitc*ing goes - I could care less at this point. I am always open for constructive criticism - but I'm just not interested in listening to the same out crap.

If you are not going to be part of the solution - you might be part of the problem.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



18thJay Swanson Memorial 9-Ball - presented by CSI - 12-19-2013, 11:02 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure if I should respond to this post but in the spirit of full disclosure I will try.

Hard Times is a busy pool room. It does NOT have food or much food. Their only source of revenue is table time. The Swanson Memorial takes all of the tables on Saturday until 9 PM or so and most of the tables for a couple of hours on Sunday and then only 10 tables or so for the rest of the day.

Having this event seriously affects their sales for the 2 days. This event is 'at best' a break even proposition. There are a lot of costs to doing an event.

Because of health issues, I will not be able to actually run the event myself - this added about $800 in expenses.

Without any 'sponsors' this is the best we can do. I strongly suggest you and others come up with a better concept - and I will support it. Until then, please respect this long running event for what it is - to honor Jay Swanson and to provide the California pool community an annual 'get together'.

I do object to 'only $4,000 added' - most sports do not have ADDED money events. Be a part of the solution and not part of the problem. Also, there are very few rooms with the number of tables needed to do this event. We have use of 25 or 26 9' tables.

I do welcome constructive comments.
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI


imissedthe9 said:
This is a no money added tournament.
25 dollar green fee Plus 3 dollar processing fee. 28x192= 5,376
Only 4 k added with a full 192. In other words the players are paying to have this tournament held

But charging a green fee and "adding money" sounds better
Pool players can complain as much as they want about it but it's all they have.

Mark,

It's a great tournament and it sells out every year. 'Nuff said!

(Man, I hope you're doing OK).

Chris

 

[POVPOOL]

I'm your Huckleberry

And for the life of me, I don't remember who you are!