Olathe!!!! What A Joke!!!

[!Smorgass Bored]

I Get It, I Really Do "GET IT "

LOL, you're going to have people that have NEVER played in a ring game making judgements and accusations.
You're going to have people that have NEVER paid thousands to enter a tournament that pays out thousands passing judgement.
You're going to have people that won't read ALL the posts in a thread passing judgement right & wrong and belittling the participants.
You're going to have the usual Trolls, totally clueless and whackos responding with THEIR wrong opinions.
You're going to get GOOD information, BAD information and opinions from people that can't tell the difference between the two.
You're going to get people that DIDN'T watch ANY of the tournament giving their advice and passing judgement.
You're going to have people that watched SOME of the online action, but missed the actual game and shots being discussed giving THEIR opinion.
You're going to refer people to previous posts, answers, explanations, table layouts, film of the match and The RULES and still some people just won't 'get it'....
Doug
( welcome to AZ Billiards Forums and most other online Forums )

 

[JamieMcWhorter]

bet on it then

Everyone who is running down McMinn, Banks and Dan Tull needs to stand down until they KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!!!!

Orcollo did not have $3300 left. He had $300. How do I know? I was running the scoreboard and I TYPED IT IN!!! This really has no bearing on the point at hand but goes to show that false information has been put out.

I have the whole game on video.


BET WHATEVER U WANT HE 33OO LEFT THAT GAME THIS HAPPEN...I TOLD U TO POST IN PERSON ON THIS THE OTHER DAY IN OLATHE ..AND U DIDN'T......CHECK YUR VIDEO AND GET UR FACTS STRAIGHT IWAS BETTING 7000 I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE SCORE WAS.................ORCULLO HAD 2100 TRIPLED UP LOSTA GAME AND HAD 3300.....JUST BET WHAT U WANNA LOSE NO MORE NO LESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ShootingArts]

lot of issues here

Hard to decide where to start. Of course chopping up the short stack is smart. It is also smart to get rid of the one you think will be the toughest competition to you in the finals.

One thing I haven't seen addressed is the size of the other two's stacks. I assume that down to the last three and DO down to his last barrel they had huge stacks meaning Dennis was almost certainly toast anyway.

Addressing the "best effort" rule, every shot is a best effort, it's just a question of what the effort is trying to accomplish. I agree with Doug that just missing a ball while leaving an opponent safed is an art form most gamblers have down pat. This is an impossible rule to enforce.

Anytime three or more individuals are in any form of competition there is always a good chance of some hooking up together, by preplanning or just the expedience of the moment. Until we learn to read minds, I think this is going to be a weakness of ring games.

From what I read the right two players were in the finals and at most all that happened was the outcome was sped up a bit. Think what the uproar would be if one of the others would have hooked up with Dennis to wipe out a tall stack player! It was probably possible and although obvious would have been unprovable. Watching a replay of the World Championships I just saw Earl miss a straight in shot on the nine. Anything can happen so proving someone deliberately dogged a shot is impossible.

Hu

 

[biggame]

I was not there but I was watching it for hours and jamie is tell the truth after that game would of been over dennis would of been down to 300

 

[sjb]

I have left this thread alone until now. I watched it and what, SBJ, says is exactly what happened. Clear as a bell to anyone with a three digit IQ. Shane's thought process was exactly as, SBJ, tells you it was. No one has explained it any clearer than, SBJ, and yet you come with, Again Huh????

Go out and rent an IQ.

Thanks, Hemi.

I don't post a lot, and I'm generally a calm guy, but I really have a hard time fading all this "they made a mockery of the room" and "there's definitely something wrong because these no-names got to the finals" and "this kind of thing will mean the end of this event." What stupid crap!

I've played with both these young men, and watched them play this weekend. There should be six pages of congratulations to them in this forum instead of this garbage.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

I have left this thread alone until now. I watched it and what, SBJ, says is exactly what happened. Clear as a bell to anyone with a three digit IQ. Shane's thought process was exactly as, SBJ, tells you it was. No one has explained it any clearer than, SBJ, and yet you come with, Again Huh????

Go out and rent an IQ.

I'm so sorry for being so dumb. Happy now?

 

[jwilliams]

The "turn" would pass forward. If the next player declined the shot, then the player after him would have the option. It would continue right back to the original shooter and he would have to shoot again. This way it would be harder to take advantage of a player two turns away.

Hmmm....I can definitely see how this would help a bit in a ring game with 4 or more people...assuming there's not three way collusion and depending on the shooting order. Less likely here I would think because if it appears you have two guys partnering up, then it would be in the other two's best interest to form a corporation realizing that whichever one of you gets knocked out, the other one is next! At that point it's almost like partners and could get very interesting and still be anyones game.

However I do think you're right back were you started when you only have three people...Player A and Player C are in together...Player A can't get out so makes a half-hearted attempt to hit the ball making sure to leave it tough/impossible on Player B...Player B either has to shoot a flyer or pass it along to Player C who is only going to break it out (or set it up) for Player A while making it look like an honest attempt. Either way Player B gets screwed.

Sadly I think in a situation where you have three guys in a ring game together, if there's some business being done, you basically either lay down and die or out run the nuts!

Perhaps, some sort of round robin race format at that point based on chip count should be done. The guys with the bigger stacks still have the advantage (ie. have to win fewer games) but it evens the playing field as far as being able to partner up on somebody goes.

Just tossing around ideas here...

 

[hemicudas]

I was not there but I was watching it for hours and jamie is tell the truth after that game would of been over dennis would of been down to 300

Assuming you are right, biggame, Dennis woud have to string 6 racks together to be playing for what the bet was again. I think that's why he un-jointed.

 

[oncepkt]

No. You still don't get it, do you?

Shane had the choice of taking the shot himself, or passing it back to Mike. He had no option to pass it to DO.

The shot and the remaining table was tough enough that Shane didn't like his chances, and decided that rather than taking the shot himself and maybe selling out to DO, he'd let Mike take it and maybe sell out to him. And even if Mike was to get out from there, DO would be out and Shane is one of the two finalists.

No brainer.

You got it. It looked like it was questionable whether the qball would fit between the rail and the two ball to hit the one, then he had to shape on the next ball. And there's nothing wrong with using strategy. Apparently many people don't grasp the concept of how to play push-out.

And that 8 ball lay up shot? D.O. quit, the game was over before Banks bunted that 8 ball! They re-racked for the final. Jezzz, monday morning quarterbacks.

 

[jay helfert]

I happen to like that style of writing. It's has something to do with finding the proper cadence.

There is another poster than can post in hick-vernacular. That one is also precious.

I like creative writers regardless of topic.

---

I think your boy DO just got really unlucky again. He was way ahead early on. Good thing you're not there, or you would have lost your Poker winnings.

And I happen to like the English language. Although this post might make a good pool rap song.

 

[crosseyedjoe]

Hmmm....I can definitely see how this would help a bit in a ring game with 4 or more people...assuming there's not three way collusion and depending on the shooting order. Less likely here I would think because if it appears you have two guys partnering up, then it would be in the other two's best interest to form a corporation realizing that whichever one of you gets knocked out, the other one is next! At that point it's almost like partners and could get very interesting and still be anyones game.

However I do think you're right back were you started when you only have three people...Player A and Player C are in together...Player A can't get out so makes a half-hearted attempt to hit the ball making sure to leave it tough/impossible on Player B...Player B either has to shoot a flyer or pass it along to Player C who is only going to break it out (or set it up) for Player A while making it look like an honest attempt. Either way Player B gets screwed.

Sadly I think in a situation where you have three guys in a ring game together, if there's some business being done, you basically either lay down and die or out run the nuts!

Perhaps, some sort of round robin race format at that point based on chip count should be done. The guys with the bigger stacks still have the advantage (ie. have to win fewer games) but it evens the playing field as far as being able to partner up on somebody goes.

Just tossing around ideas here...

You are right. Maybe they should also apply ball-in-hand for pass, miss and foul. Then everyone doesn't have to pretend making an honest effort, they got to make it.

The good thing about forward pass though is that player B still at least has a chance to take or not to take the shot.

 

[jay helfert]

Assuming you are right, biggame, Dennis woud have to string 6 racks together to be playing for what the bet was again. I think that's why he un-jointed.

If he wins one game, he has 900. If he wins two games he has 2,700. if he wins three games he has 8,100, and he's playing for a full 3,000 a game again.

 

[td873]

Assuming you are right, biggame, Dennis woud have to string 6 racks together to be playing for what the bet was again. I think that's why he un-jointed.

As I recall, DO had 3300 going into the 3000 game. If he won, he would have 9300. No stringing needed to stay in it.

If he lost (which he did), he would have only 300. Even so, he would only need 3 games to be back in (i.e., he would have 900 if he won the first game and 2700 after winning the second, and the full bet after winning the third).

-td

 

[Danny Harriman]

I don't believe Mcworter about Shane chopping up Orcolla, I have watched McMinn play for years now and there is no chance that he would pull a doump in any manner of the word. The shot that Shane refused to shoot was more than likely very difficult or Shane would not have let Banks Jr. back at the table. I have watched Shane McMinn for yrs. now and he is in fact a winner, it never ceases to amaze me when someone who is not in the click of what they think is supposed to go down (ie) the dark horse wins. The person who hollars cheater is 99% of the time a poor loser who is more interested in ther pocket book than the actuall integrety of the game. I do not know Banks Jr. all that well but I can tell you first hand that Shane McMinn would not attempt a dishonest move at any time for any amount, he is there for one purpose and that is to win. Congrats to Shane for a job well done, when Dennis unscrews his cue it would not matter if Shane were to stand on his head that is irrelavent. Ohh and by the way the big names like Van Boeing and Orcolla might not win against Shane in a race to 21 on the Bar box any way.
Sincerely, Danny Harriman

 

[JamieMcWhorter]

You got it. It looked like it was questionable whether the qball would fit between the rail and the two ball to hit the one, then he had to shape on the next ball. And there's nothing wrong with using strategy. Apparently many people don't grasp the concept of how to play push-out.

And that 8 ball lay up shot? D.O. quit, the game was over before Banks bunted that 8 ball! They re-racked for the final. Jezzz, monday morning quarterbacks.[/QUO

I heard Shane himself say the 1-ball was straight in afterwards.......the one was so tough and tight that it never hit a rail going in so how tough was ittttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt???????????????????????

 

[JCIN]

Everyone who is running down McMinn, Banks and Dan Tull needs to stand down until they KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!!!!

Orcollo did not have $3300 left. He had $300. How do I know? I was running the scoreboard and I TYPED IT IN!!! This really has no bearing on the point at hand but goes to show that false information has been put out.

I have the whole game on video.


BET WHATEVER U WANT HE 33OO LEFT THAT GAME THIS HAPPEN...I TOLD U TO POST IN PERSON ON THIS THE OTHER DAY IN OLATHE ..AND U DIDN'T......CHECK YUR VIDEO AND GET UR FACTS STRAIGHT IWAS BETTING 7000 I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE SCORE WAS.................ORCULLO HAD 2100 TRIPLED UP LOSTA GAME AND HAD 3300.....JUST BET WHAT U WANNA LOSE NO MORE NO LESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to the all caps I see.

Based on your history here I was convinced you were an idiot. After seeing you in Olathe I recognized you from other events and based on your conduct there reassessed my opinion that you might not be so bad.

After you went crying like a little girl to Dan Tull claiming you were being chopped up, then after you WIN your goofy bet, you come here and run down a guy who has done more for the game than you ever will, the topper is when you are talking sh!t about Shane and Mike being bad sportsmen until Shane walked up to you and said " Glad I could win for you" and you turn 180 and not only act very nice to him you offer him a $100. Which this "bad sportsman" turned down. Then when I call you on it, you come with "Well its not really the players it's the format."I have once again proved to myself that I need to trust my instincts.

Since we started the Action Report we decided we should stay as neutral as possible and not piss anyone off. Well if that means taking crap from the likes of you its not worth it.

You are an idiot.

 

[Ky Boy]

Posting this for a second time. Congratulations to both Shane and Mike on sucha well played tourney. I believe that the only people making sucha big deal of this are the ones who have never played in a ring game of any type. These 2 young men played well within the rules no matter how you chalk it up as anyone of the players would have done.

Some of you folks need to take a GIANT step back and then step up like a man. I can't believe you guys are b******g like a bunch of felt up girls. (Sorry ladies!!!) RULES ARE RULES like 'em or not. And they played well within 'em. The only person any of these players were out for was theirselves.

LONG LIVE OLATHE 10 BALL RING GAME AND THE ACTION REPORT!!!!!!!

Gary

 

[rayjay]

As Banks said on the Action Report:

"this is mike banks. the shot that i didnt shoot hard enough was nothing. the game was already over. dennis had already unscrewed his cue and left. it had already been known that the finals was between me and shane. i understand how he felt about the situation but there was nothing against the rules about what shane did. there was no conspiracy to screw dennis over."

I didn't see it, so don't have an opinion about what happened. I do think the TD should have been on top of it and made a clear ruling, though.

 

[JamieMcWhorter]

Back to the all caps I see.

Based on your history here I was convinced you were an idiot. After seeing you in Olathe I recognized you from other events and based on your conduct there reassessed my opinion that you might not be so bad.

After you went crying like a little girl to Dan Tull claiming you were being chopped up, then after you WIN your goofy bet, you come here and run down a guy who has done more for the game than you ever will, the topper is when you are talking sh!t about Shane and Mike being bad sportsmen until Shane walked up to you and said " Glad I could win for you" and you turn 180 and not only act very nice to him you offer him a $100. Which this "bad sportsman" turned down. Then when I call you on it, you come with "Well its not really the players it's the format."I have once again proved to myself that I need to trust my instincts.

Since we started the Action Report we decided we should stay as neutral as possible and not piss anyone off. Well if that means taking crap from the likes of you its not worth it.

You are an idiot.

LISTEN MONKEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY....................U obviously neevr listened to a word i said the whole time about this.....I NEVER SAID ONE THING BAD ABOUT THE PLAYERS U MONKEY............I SAID THIS IS AWFUL THAT POOL HAS TO BE THIS WAY....AND HONESTLY SHANE DID WHAT HE HAD TO DO FOR HIMSELF ...I NEVER SAID HE DUMPED.............HE LIVED IN OHIO FOR AWHILE I LIKE SHANE I CONSIDER HIM A FRIEND...AND I DID OFFER HIM SOME JELLY IF HE WANTED IT BUT HE SAID NO THATS OK IM JUST GLAD I WON FOR YOU.............

 

[shag_fu]

Congrats go to all players willing to try this exciting new format. Props to TAR for thorough and entertaining coverage. Congrats to Shane and Mike for spectacular play and stamina to last til the end of the grind. Per the rules no one did anything wrong, it was a smart call by mcminn, I could tell the shot was hard even on the video.

Safety play in ring games happen all the time. We call it "holding yer man". You leave the next guy tough in hopes he'll do the same so you can get back to the table. Thats how smart players play. Yeah, you try to make the ball, buts its preatty low or no percentage, you tried. whatever.

I think jamie was right on the chip count, but as jcin said earlier, DO unscrewed before the 1ball pass thus conceding the game. So this whole discussion of chopping and dumping is really pointless. These 2 "kids" played their aces off in a grueling format and should be congratulated or left alone.