Yep, the Chinese plus the Philippine young guns are tough to fade.
Old 9-ball players vs the New
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
Yep, the Chinese plus the Philippine young guns are tough to fade.
I watched and played with a lot of players that made the transition from slower more forgiving tables, to faster tighter equipment. Guys like Larry (Boston Shorty) Johnson, Larry Loscotti, Mike Zuglan, Nick Vlahos, and even myself, had a small transition period but we caught on fast. It was either that or go home broke.
The bottom line with all these players and many, many, more of them is they could flat out play.
I personally found a lot of things easier to do on the faster, tighter, tables. Getting the cue-ball around on a three-rail follow shot was a lot easier.
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The bottom line with all these players and many, many, more of them is they could flat out play.
I personally found a lot of things easier to do on the faster, tighter, tables. Getting the cue-ball around on a three-rail follow shot was a lot easier.
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http://tommcgonaglerightoncue.com
I had to laugh at this one. On some of that old stuff, to get around three rails you needed the Happy Gilmore stroke.
We have a table in San Antonio that is still slow, very slow. Banana's loved them. I can't hit a long 5 railer on that table and I at one time benched around 300.
My pool began in Denver. Frank Burgess was the first to come up with snooker pockets and the ice rink for covering. I remember the first spot shot I had to shoot. I thought,"Shit, it won't go"!
Louie came there to play Danny Medina. Louie never got out. After about 4 hours of this he quit and said he was going to Lookout Mountain and jump off head first. He then said he would play more tomorrow on a pool table.
I needed to hear that.
DANNY DILIBERTO FOR THE HALL OF FAME
My daily double would be Danny and JOSE PARICA
Read this and tell me if your above comment still makes sense:
Players from the Phillipines have a similar lifestyle to the players over here from the depression era. All they do is live, breathe and play pool and NOTHING else. No one would contest that the worlds best melting pot of great players comes from this society. When you have to play to survive in life, ones ability has a definite edge. Take baseball (which I know nothing about) some of the best players in the world come from third world countries.
Is that not sdrawkcab?
Playing Effren
Chris
I agree with some of your points and others I dont. Talking about the American players-Shane is probably one of the best and he isnt the best at kicking or playing safes..he is more offensive minded.
You have stated that Effren is a freak--which he is..no doubt about it. So in Effren's prime..which American's today could play him even 9 ball? Effren is still around past his prime so you can gauge him against the new players. In his prime Buddy, Varner, and Earl played him heads up in 9 ball and he didnt beat them all and Early barely lost. I dont think you would find one American player today that would have even stepped up to play him even for money.
Chris
I agree with some of your points and others I dont. Talking about the American players-Shane is probably one of the best and he isnt the best at kicking or playing safes..he is more offensive minded.
You have stated that Effren is a freak--which he is..no doubt about it. So in Effren's prime..which American's today could play him even 9 ball? Effren is still around past his prime so you can gauge him against the new players. In his prime Buddy, Varner, and Earl played him heads up in 9 ball and he didnt beat them all and Early barely lost. I dont think you would find one American player today that would have even stepped up to play him even for money.
I totally agree and couldn't have said it better.
I think that in the years to come it will be much more difficult to name a player of the decade as the competition will become so close that it will be almost impossible to consistantly remain at the top for very long. The talent pool is worldwide and the level of information available is tremendous.
Natural born talent and dedication to the game will, and always have been, the factors that set apart the truely great names in any sport from their competition. But if the great player's from the depression era had the amount of competition that we see today coming in from Asia, Europe, and the Phillipines, they probably would have had a much harder time winning so many titles.
johnny archer or svb
But Efren claims his prime was in the 1970's, well before he ever came to the United States. Of course he didn't play one-pocket in the 1970's, but he must have been something then in rotation.
Buddy did beat Efren in their big money match in Houston. Once the top players realized how weak Efren's 9-Ball break was, they started beating him in tournaments. Efren had trouble winning another tournament for several years. Varner beat him in a long challenge match in the Philippines about 15 years ago.
In tournament play Efren in his prime would have trouble with the top players today, many of them. Gambling it would be hard for him to have faded Alex, Dennis, Lee Van, Shane or Yang imo. One Pocket is a whole different thing. Efren mastered that game and is unquestionably imo the greatest player of the last twenty years. No one today plays his best speed, not even close.
An interesting side note, Efren still competes for money with the top young guns in Rotation and was considered the best player even recently. I've seen him play and beat Ronnie Alcano and Francisco at that game in the last few years. But I think he's beaten all his fellow filipinos at that game for a long time. I would say that Efren is the best Rotation and One Pocket player of the last twenty years. Only the two toughest games!
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Maybe, but Efren did win DCC 9 ball last year. That's a pretty big tournament. Not many can match him in safety play.
He also won the Fatboy Ten Ball, so he can still play a little. And he and Francisco are the defending champs in the World Cup of pool coming up in September. Efren's game hasn't slipped that much. But in major 9-Ball and Ten Ball events worldwide, Efren is no longer one of the favorites.
The way that I explain this to people is that, in his prime, Efren was a step or two above everyone else in the game. He could give the best players in the world 9-7 playing one pocket and he was still the favorite. His game has fallen, but now he is in the mix with the rest of the players instead of at the top looking down. He is not the odds on favorite to win every time, but he still comes with enough to win.
Efren was ahead of everyone at one time, now he is just running with the pack instead of being the in the lead.
Except heads' up play. It's difficult on an opponent when your constantly seeing shots/moves that you've never seen before or being in situations that allows him to constantly beat you to the next ball, distraction/intimidation sets in and your your pulled mentally out of your game. It's like Ethers' line in Color of Money.
Totally agree with you. When your opponent never makes a mistake after hours of play it definitely wears on you. Like Buddy Hall once told me..he said everyone talks about break and run packages, he said they will come and go.. just dont make any mistakes and at the end of the night see how you do. YOU WILL GET THE CHEESE I love when I hear guys say i ran a 3 pack or a 4 pack yet they dont mention the 10 mistakes they made over the next half hour or hour.
True, he isn't the favorite. The favorite is someone's perception.
I have the accustats dvd of the 9 ball finals. Efren had already won master of the table and was in the process of defeating Rodney Morris in the 9 ball finals tournament which contained all the young guns, and the announcers were talking about how Efren doesn't have his top game anymore.
Poor old Efren. All he does is win.
Then Who would play these guys
So I agree they might step up and play Effren in his prime.
But which other Americans of today would step up and play the following in their prime in 9ball in a cash game and that you would bet on playing them?
Buddy Hall, Mike Sigel, Earl Strickland, Allen Hopkins, Nick Varner
So I agree they might step up and play Effren in his prime.
But which other Americans of today would step up and play the following in their prime in 9ball in a cash game and that you would bet on playing them?
Buddy Hall, Mike Sigel, Earl Strickland, Allen Hopkins, Nick Varner
only about 50 pinyos.
why it have to be americans?
dont pinyos count?
i would say
archer
svb
hatch
rodney morris