NUMMY,
Cudo's on hittin it outa the park!! GR8 concept
You got the money to back it?
Post dated checks for final 8 at Master's
- Thread starter Johnnyt
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You got the money to back it?
mlalum
Banned
Well I think we should really tell it like it is. And that is nobody gives a crap about professional pool. And by nobody I mean anyone not part of the tiny, gritty, pro pool clique. That's the problem not the BCA or any other promoter.
As Justin says, the pool tournament is not a viable revenue generator. To have positive revenue in sports you need numbers. There are no numbers because nobody cares. Nobody deserves numbers you have to earn it.
Alot of people don't care because of the attitudes represented by JAM up above. If you're not a hustlin, lying road player you aint part of pool. If you are a league player or a person who wants to play for fun you're a waste.
One person on this thread has already said that professional pool/players do nothing to promote pool. And that's the undeniable truth. All they seem to be interested in fighting and scrapping over the tiny amount of money there is and who gets it.
If "professional pool players'' promoted the game at all maybe some numbers might be generated to support them. But I doubt it. One of the successful business models - the APA - is always trashed by the real pool players and other promoters because they make money. Mark G. has a tremendous event in May in Vegas each year but the participants there don't care about the pros. And you never see the pros in there doing anything to support the game.
So all this whining about how bad it is for pool players and promoters do this and that, well, you all deserve what you get. I say blame the other guy or woman. It couldn't possible be that I'm a large part of the problem. Keep going the way you're going and you'll kill the game altogether. That's more likely to happen than professional pool players and their FANS coming together to work WITH league players and regional amateurs to change the game in a positive way.
am countin as i type
Billiards enthusiasts unite, spread some love to AZ for setting that one up. Team Effort.
Very well written!
I've tried to get the top 16 players in Norway to visit youthclubs 4 times a year. Youthclubs in Norway normally have a pooltable, but no one knows how to use it.
If those 16 players visited 1 youthclub each, 4 times a year, showing them some tricks, hold a tournament for them etc, we might get 50 new youth players every year, maybe even more.
But those 16 players just laugh at me when I say this, because "there's nothing in it for me".
Well, if they would listen to me and do this, we would have monthly ranking tournaments with 250 players in Norway in 2025, instead of 30-80 players like it is today.
Look at the FA Premier League, perhaps the most successful sports-industry in the world, English soccer.
30 years ago they travelled around all over Europe during their off-season and played friendly matches almost for free. They did this to market themselves, their club and the product they had. Later on they travelled to Asia, and now they travel to America.
FA Premier League have like 10-12 matches broadcasted live every single week from August till May all over the world, attracting hundreds of thousands spectators from all over the world every single week to their games.
Other great soccer-nations like Spain, Italy and Germany never cared about travelling around and marketing their product, and they are not even close to the FA Premier League when it comes to popularity, money and world-wide interest.
When the pro and semipro poolplayers realize that if they each teach 50 kids to play each year, many of those kids will pay entries to local, regional and national tournaments the coming years. If they are smart, they can sell clothes, poolcues etc to them too
I've tried to get the top 16 players in Norway to visit youthclubs 4 times a year. Youthclubs in Norway normally have a pooltable, but no one knows how to use it.
If those 16 players visited 1 youthclub each, 4 times a year, showing them some tricks, hold a tournament for them etc, we might get 50 new youth players every year, maybe even more.
But those 16 players just laugh at me when I say this, because "there's nothing in it for me".
Well, if they would listen to me and do this, we would have monthly ranking tournaments with 250 players in Norway in 2025, instead of 30-80 players like it is today.
Look at the FA Premier League, perhaps the most successful sports-industry in the world, English soccer.
30 years ago they travelled around all over Europe during their off-season and played friendly matches almost for free. They did this to market themselves, their club and the product they had. Later on they travelled to Asia, and now they travel to America.
FA Premier League have like 10-12 matches broadcasted live every single week from August till May all over the world, attracting hundreds of thousands spectators from all over the world every single week to their games.
Other great soccer-nations like Spain, Italy and Germany never cared about travelling around and marketing their product, and they are not even close to the FA Premier League when it comes to popularity, money and world-wide interest.
When the pro and semipro poolplayers realize that if they each teach 50 kids to play each year, many of those kids will pay entries to local, regional and national tournaments the coming years. If they are smart, they can sell clothes, poolcues etc to them too
To say it again!!!!
Said it before, pros need to get shortstops enthused and excited about playing. Not just saying you got the "7" if you wanna play me. And the shortstops need to get the beginners excited and enthused about playing and not saying you got the "7" if you wanna play me. And the job for the beginners is huge , get someone that doesn't play pool excited and enthused about pool. Then pool will grow. Our numbers as pool players aren't near good enough to warrant budweiser, jack links, coors, or any company with money to sponsor pool. And of all the people that play leagues how many know who Nick Varner, Johnny Archer, or Shane van Boening are? And how many companies want to advertise to less than 1% of the population in the U.S. NONE. Everyone needs to do their job to build this up. Till then its gonna run the same.
Said it before, pros need to get shortstops enthused and excited about playing. Not just saying you got the "7" if you wanna play me. And the shortstops need to get the beginners excited and enthused about playing and not saying you got the "7" if you wanna play me. And the job for the beginners is huge , get someone that doesn't play pool excited and enthused about pool. Then pool will grow. Our numbers as pool players aren't near good enough to warrant budweiser, jack links, coors, or any company with money to sponsor pool. And of all the people that play leagues how many know who Nick Varner, Johnny Archer, or Shane van Boening are? And how many companies want to advertise to less than 1% of the population in the U.S. NONE. Everyone needs to do their job to build this up. Till then its gonna run the same.
Actually, I kind of agree with you. I'd probably be pissed if I were one of the players who had to wait for the money, but you gotta admit this is not an uncommon circumstance for Barry. BUT as far as I know everyone who ever
got a post dated check from Barry did get paid. At least he's trying to put on major tournaments here in the US and ends up paying for it dearly when things go awry. It would be nice to have the "deep pocket sponsorships" that
make most other sporting events so lucrative, but lets face it, we don't! All of the money that goes out comes from within the billiard community in one way or another. You can't expect Barry to shit the money, he had ambitious
intentions that fell short and he'll end up paying the balance out of his own pocket I'll bet. It's hard to crucify someone who's given so much to the sport and the pool players for the last 30 years! Yeah, it would be nice if he had
the backing necessary to lock up the money in advance, but if we insisted on that the end results would have undoubtedly been much less! All that being said, I don't even like Barry personally, but I'm glad we have him out there
trying to promote pool. Not many are these days!
Rather than repeating my usual rant that pool has to be built from the ground up with a focus on youth here is another point to get pool moving in the right direction. Try having weekly tournaments that fit a working persons schedule, try having days and times set aside where a man wouldn't mind bringing his family to a pool room. That is a way to get more people involved that could be done now. When I suggest no smoking tournaments on a Saturday around noon most TD's or room owners just shrug their shoulders and/or stare off in to space.
mlalum
Banned
This is a very good example. The concept is really, really, pretty simple. But even if people decided some how that this is how it should be done it would still take years as grassroots development is a very slow process. But it's the only way anything will change with this game. If people could just get off the color of money myth mentality and switch over to franchise building 101 well then...
This gets my vote for the best post on this topic. This is why men's pro pool is where its at today.
Incredible. I have never stated that a person should be a "hustlin', lying road player to be a part of pool. In fact, I have always stated that league pool is where it's at. Does it bring you joy to stalk me on the forum?
You are a troublemaker on this forum. This is what brings you enjoyment. Have at it.
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Yeah , often wondered how these guys that provide tables make a living with the costs you just described , every match isn't hill-hill . I believe you said that Kamui and BadBoys made it possible for you to stream the bar table championships ? Just curious , but how many players have walked up to you and said , hey , here are a few dollars , and thanks for promoting the game ?
How many in the industry have asked you for a free endorsement of their product or book , not you personally , just the air time ? Any one asked you to guest commentate in order to promote something or themselves and not even bought you a meal ? Anyone you know that is well off financially always showing up at events wanting freebies and self promotion ?
My brother has been a self employed painter since his early 20's , he is in his late 50's now , he struggled and worked for low wages trying to support 5 kids , he tried to bid jobs as the middle or low bid and was always struggling . One day he woke up and said if i can't make a living doing this i need to start doing something else . He started bidding high purposely to make sure he covered his ass/plus.
He got just as much work , but he always had customers who would do him a favor by figuring his costs for him , in their mind they had his expenses figured and could not understand why he would bid so much . They didn't see his costs to provide medical/dental care for his children , vehicle , insurance , gas expenses etc .
If pool ever has a benefactor as far as a viable pro tour goes , Paul Allen saved what is left of the PBA they will dictate everything and the players will play by their rules or not , unless there are competing tours that give the player an option .
There are lots of players nationwide that would be competitive if the money was there but can't devote the time to the game because it doesn't pay . If you restrict the field to 64 just watch the politics that would go on to decide who was eligible to enter , and what organizations ratings would count .
Appreciate the streams you and others provide .
I just guess I'm not too sure why I should care about this.
This was not a new promoter trying his wings out -- it is an old show with a predictable final act. If you don't like the format, equipment, or *past performance of the promoter,* you pass. The players continue to show up for this kind of abuse and I really don't feel too sorry for them. And, I don't get why the AZ rabble should get energized either.
Barry didn't pay the winners in cash at the conclusion of one of his tournament...
(wait for it)...
BIG SURPRISE.
I say let the players sleep in the bed they've made and we should not be enabling their addiction to bad events and promoters.
Lou Figueroa
This was not a new promoter trying his wings out -- it is an old show with a predictable final act. If you don't like the format, equipment, or *past performance of the promoter,* you pass. The players continue to show up for this kind of abuse and I really don't feel too sorry for them. And, I don't get why the AZ rabble should get energized either.
Barry didn't pay the winners in cash at the conclusion of one of his tournament...
(wait for it)...
BIG SURPRISE.
I say let the players sleep in the bed they've made and we should not be enabling their addiction to bad events and promoters.
Lou Figueroa
There are lots of players and few promoters. Players can't afford to be selective when it comes to the high prize payout events. Players could set up challenge matches between each other and try to stream it from their pool hall and see how much money from web subscriptions they bring in.
The pool players tend to lack in adapting new technologies for profit purposes.
The pool players tend to lack in adapting new technologies for profit purposes.
Well, that's fine. But don't Cry to Me Argentina, afterwards, when you get a post-dated check, a pro-rated payment, or outright stiffed.
Lou Figueroa
I was completely and utterly discouraged talking to a lady who plays in my APA league. She's been playing for probably 10 years now. Been to Vegas for APA, something not many in our part of the world can say. VERY active in league, and in our local tournaments.
Talking to her the other day, she had no idea who SVB was. Or Effren.
I was stunned. This is a woman who will talk to anyone who will listen (and many who won't
) about meeting Johnny Archer and Nick Varner when they toured up here a few years ago. She'll talk about Alison Fisher all day. But no clue about two of the biggest names in pool. This is one of the most active pool players in our league. I'm quite sure most of the rest of our league would know even less. 95% at least.
I agree completely with those who state that the pro's should be involved with APA and BCApl. I don't know how the mechanics of it could be worked out, but I think pro pool needs league pool, and league pool could benefit from pro pool. The trick is getting them together. If professional pool is to survive, let alone thrive, this has to happen.
Talking to her the other day, she had no idea who SVB was. Or Effren.
I was stunned. This is a woman who will talk to anyone who will listen (and many who won't
) about meeting Johnny Archer and Nick Varner when they toured up here a few years ago. She'll talk about Alison Fisher all day. But no clue about two of the biggest names in pool. This is one of the most active pool players in our league. I'm quite sure most of the rest of our league would know even less. 95% at least.I agree completely with those who state that the pro's should be involved with APA and BCApl. I don't know how the mechanics of it could be worked out, but I think pro pool needs league pool, and league pool could benefit from pro pool. The trick is getting them together. If professional pool is to survive, let alone thrive, this has to happen.
People that make promises and need more time to deliver happens frequently. Why should there be so much emphasis on one particular man? If he has habitual problems but has a history of involvement then it is reasonable to suggest he get help, restaff or take a vacation.
As for the players, they just want to go play great pool against great players and hope a few new people get some insight from their match-ups, and prize money paid on time helps to motivate them to make their match-ups interests.
There are players that want to compete and get paid, and promoters that want to make money from hosting great matches, like the IPT and those monumental and ultra rare matchups. The bottleneck problem is what happens if promoters don't make enough. It is a legitimate risk and a problem for the organizer not the players. Should the promoters advertise prizes they can payout on time, or prizes that will attract the players large audiences might want to see? That is a risk the money manager takes what they do when they lose is their problem. If the organizers suggests reducing prizes based on audience turnout then the problem becomes serious.
As for the players, they just want to go play great pool against great players and hope a few new people get some insight from their match-ups, and prize money paid on time helps to motivate them to make their match-ups interests.
There are players that want to compete and get paid, and promoters that want to make money from hosting great matches, like the IPT and those monumental and ultra rare matchups. The bottleneck problem is what happens if promoters don't make enough. It is a legitimate risk and a problem for the organizer not the players. Should the promoters advertise prizes they can payout on time, or prizes that will attract the players large audiences might want to see? That is a risk the money manager takes what they do when they lose is their problem. If the organizers suggests reducing prizes based on audience turnout then the problem becomes serious.
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That is a fair assessment of the state of affairs.
There is no question that the promoters are gambling when it comes to having their event make a profit. Most feel lucky to break even.
In the past year and a half, I've donated 3- to $400 (can't remember) to several aspiring pros and pro players requesting to get staked in upcoming tournaments, some of which were overseas. With more and more tournaments occurring around the globe and with the payouts being what they are in pool, it's difficult for everybody who wants to play to actually be able to play.
I still believe that if the player fields are limited, it would compel the prospective competitors to pay in advance, like Allen Hopkins' SBE pro tournament and Mike Zuglan's Joss Turning Stone events. This is a winning strategy that other promoters may find beneficial if they can apply it to their tournaments.
Eligability be determined by higher rankings !