a sad, neverending story.
Post dated checks for final 8 at Master's
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
master9baller
Banned
Interesting thread. I am reminded about what I just posted in another thread about the new pool movie.
We as pool enthusiasts find it difficult that mainstream America doesn't seem to accept pool as a sport. We are, indeed, a minority in this respect when it comes to our attention to pool.
A Chinese man wanted to bring fame to his area by building the largest mall in the world, and he succeeded in building it, but that wasn't enough: Build it and they will come.
I have always been impressed with how Allen Hopkin's Super Billiards Expo pro event player roster not only fills up long before, but there's a waiting list of players eager to compete. I'm not sure what the magic ingredient is that makes players pay in advance to his pro tournament.
The same holds true for Mike Zuglan's $25,000-added Turning Stone Casino tournamaents. They fill up before the day of the event, and there, too, is a waiting list of players hoping to get in.
Barry Behrman continues to pour money and hard work into pool. He's done so for many years. I will continue to applaud his efforts and hope he keeps it going. The U.S. Open is probably my favorite tournament, bar none, because of the atmosphere. Virginia people and their Southern hospitality make it special for me.
I am nothing more than a mere railbird and not a pro competitor in pool. With more and more events going overseas to the ASEAN region of the world, I am cognizant of the fact that the United States continues to pale in comparison when it comes to major pro events on American soil.
It's easy to throw stones at an event when things go awry. Who could have predicted 9/11 when the 2001 U.S. Open attendance suffered?
At least Barry is still out there giving it his all. Yes, it is a disappointment that the players don't get their cheese immediately upon completion, but the success of this event was compromised due to logistics, one being the 2011 World 8-Ball championship occurring within the same time frame.
If you want to throw stones at anyone, it should be the shameful BCA (Billiards Congress of America) organization, the North American representative in professional pool, and the WPA (World Pool-Billiard Association), the "international governing body of pool-billiard sports."
What has the WPA done for American pool lately? They sure do have the WPA representation of its members present at tournaments around the world, and as we all know, expenses to attend world events ain't cheap. That's why we only have a handful of American pros representing the United States. I'd even venture to guess there's more WPA reps at world pool events than actual American pros.
There are three types of people in this world: those who watch things happen (railbirds like me :grin-square, those who wondered what happened, and those who make things happen. Barry makes things happen, and I hope he keeps it going. With regional tours banning pro players from competing in their tournaments, professional pool need more Barrys in our country. The existing lot of American pro players is continuing to dwindle, in case you haven't noticed.
And speaking as someone who lives on the East Coast, I would like to see more pool happenings out here.
I want to highlight the amazing job Mike Zuglan does running the Joss Tour, particularly the 2 Turning Stone events. As stated above, there always is a full field with a waiting list. Usually full a month or so in advance of the event. Always free for spectators to watch the events in the Turning Stone Casino event center. They even gave out coupons for free gambling money the last 2 events!
He has accrued many solid tour sponsors and runs the tour fairly for everyone from pros to amateurs.
Thanks to the TD's like him who operate above board and give us a place to compete and watch the game.
How do you do it?
Mark,
Im not sure how you guys do it. I tried to put together an event on a large scale and I work full time. Man what a job but what I was doing was deal similar to Barrys only smaller. Its takes some doing, details and if youre doing the trade show kind of thing a lot of them. People just dont know but youre right if the money piece isnt there, there really isnt much to say now is there. Hard to find that added money thats for sure.
336robin http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/
Mark,
Im not sure how you guys do it. I tried to put together an event on a large scale and I work full time. Man what a job but what I was doing was deal similar to Barrys only smaller. Its takes some doing, details and if youre doing the trade show kind of thing a lot of them. People just dont know but youre right if the money piece isnt there, there really isnt much to say now is there. Hard to find that added money thats for sure.
336robin http://274928807619529663.weebly.com/
Did this start recently, or did the event always have a history of paying less? If its the former, maybe the profitable days of the US Open are over, and the promoter is overreaching into keeping up the event. I enjoyed the US Open as an attendee, sorry to hear that the promoter is running into cash flow problems.
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The success of this event was compromised due to logistics, one being the 2011 World 8-Ball championship occurring within the same time frame.
If you want to throw stones at anyone, it should be the shameful BCA (Billiards Congress of America) organization, the North American representative in professional pool, and the WPA (World Pool-Billiard Association), the "international governing body of pool-billiard sports."
What has the WPA done for American pool lately? They sure do have the WPA representation of its members present at tournaments around the world, and as we all know, expenses to attend world events ain't cheap. That's why we only have a handful of American pros representing the United States. I'd even venture to guess there's more WPA reps at world pool events than actual American pros.
I have in the past been critical of the WPA but I would defend them in these circumstances. Shane van Boening, Rodney Morris, Corey Deuel and Earl Strickland plus two Canadians were in Fujairah for the World 8 Ball tournament.
Only three people were there from the WPA. Ian Anderson, the WPA President was there of necessity renegotiating the event for next year. Jerry Forsyth was also in attendance but he got paid by the sponsor. The only other Board Member there was Asia's Ronnie Chua and he picked up his own expenses.
So no fat cat stories there.
The WPA is likely to have 9 or 10 ranking events this season. While it is true that they all will be Asia based they will all meet the minimum prize fund criteria. I know that travelling to these tournaments places a considerable financial burden on US pro players. But the fact is that it is only minimally less expensive for players to travel from Europe and the Philippines to get to them, but they still make the effort.
exactly....
To me, this is just as bad as not having a tourney. Something has to be done to punish the promoters who do this. It's different if it was an un-forseen calamity, like when the hurricane came thru. But this repeated behaviour is awful.... I understand he wants to put on an extravagant tourney for everyone, but come on. Someone mentioned a band? WTF.... Cut back on some of the stuff that isn't necessary, til you get things back into profit. I can assure you, if I was looking for a tourney to go to, I would take his track record into account. Every single player who earns money at a tourney, needs to be paid, on the spot.
To me, this is just as bad as not having a tourney. Something has to be done to punish the promoters who do this. It's different if it was an un-forseen calamity, like when the hurricane came thru. But this repeated behaviour is awful.... I understand he wants to put on an extravagant tourney for everyone, but come on. Someone mentioned a band? WTF.... Cut back on some of the stuff that isn't necessary, til you get things back into profit. I can assure you, if I was looking for a tourney to go to, I would take his track record into account. Every single player who earns money at a tourney, needs to be paid, on the spot.
I agree with this poster. Pool does have a higher percentage of undesirables, con artists, ect. associated with it. For some that's an attraction, and for some others its a turn off. I think the women's pro tour was getting it right, but sadly the economy went down the toilet and from the looks of things, may never be back. I took a lot of crap at a place I used to play before I said no more. I probably spent at least $1200. a year in this place and more. Now I have to travel at least 70 miles one way to play in a tournament of any kind, and I don't regret it.
I am one year away from retirement and still thinking about a sports bar/poolroom with the emphasis on poolroom, but it will be on the order of the one in Erie Pa. I believe its called Gold Crown Billiards.
I have talked to many, many people that would like to have a nice place to play pool, but don't want to have to deal with all the low lifes.
Dogh-Re-Mi
If you ain't got the dough you shouldn't be putting on da show. Certainly not a BCA event.
If you ain't got the dough you shouldn't be putting on da show. Certainly not a BCA event.
I wonder if BB had said to all players before the event "Ok, pay your own way etc but the top 8 will be given post dated checks" I wonder how many players would have attended.
Secondly I wonder if the players before the event started said to BB " Hey can I give you a post dated check for my entry?" I wonder what BB would have said, well I think i know the answer to that. However he would not have taken a post dated check but forces everyone else to. A little one sided in my opinion.
Secondly I wonder if the players before the event started said to BB " Hey can I give you a post dated check for my entry?" I wonder what BB would have said, well I think i know the answer to that. However he would not have taken a post dated check but forces everyone else to. A little one sided in my opinion.
And people ask me all the time.....why don't you go to that tounament??
Oh sure, can't wait!! Got to make It to what, the final 10 or 15 to break even.And then If I do, I might have to wait a few weeks or months to collect my $??? Think I'll just stay home and dig ditches and shovel manure. That way at least I know I will get the $. Boy, that really Is sad.
John Brumback
Oh sure, can't wait!! Got to make It to what, the final 10 or 15 to break even.And then If I do, I might have to wait a few weeks or months to collect my $??? Think I'll just stay home and dig ditches and shovel manure. That way at least I know I will get the $. Boy, that really Is sad.
John Brumback
I may be the only one with this mindset, but a post dated check is still getting paid, right? If I won 25k or whatever but I gotta wait two months to get it, I'll still be happy.
As long as Barry owe em, they are never broke.
To me it's like the lotto. If you win $200 from a scratch off, you get paid right there at the gas station. If you win $50k, you gotta send it in and wait.
As long as Barry owe em, they are never broke.
To me it's like the lotto. If you win $200 from a scratch off, you get paid right there at the gas station. If you win $50k, you gotta send it in and wait.
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I always pay close attention to your words of wisdom, Doug, because I have only the highest respect for you.
I do understand where you're coming from, and I also know how much you have worked behind the scenes to help promote lucrative pool events around the world. This is all good, and you are, indeed, an asset to the pool as a sport. Pool could benefit with more people like you.
With all that said about you, a man whom I hold in the highest regard, the WPA organization does not give American professional pool the same respect as it does to countries elsewhere, and the BCA organization is a joke when it comes to representing North American pool interests.
Soon professional pool in America will be nonexistent if professional-caliber events on our soil diminish, with all future professional-caliber events being held in the ASEAN region of the world. With the lack of pool sponsorship in the States, there will be only one or two American pros representing the United States.
Without the BCA promoting professional pool, since we all know that it really only looks out for the interests of its industry members, professional pool will fade in the sunset. The print media will keep on praising the industry members about all of their contributions to the sport, voting them in their Hall of Fame, when the major bulk of the contributions that the BCA industry members make in reality is in the pockets of the print media. Professional American players in the eyes of the BCA organization are pariahs.
That's my story and I'm sticking with it.
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I don't know Mr. Behrman or all the specifics on his past tourneys.
I will say that what I've seen of him, he does exude a lot of passion for pool. Of course, you can't cash passion.
Is it the end of the world if some of the high finishers in the Masters have to wait to cash their checks until March 15th? That isn't for me to say, my bills are getting paid from an entirely different fund.
I think we can all agree that getting stiffed and getting delayed are two different animals. Neither optimum, but if you had to choose one...
As I said, I don't know Mr. Behrman and whether or not he is a man of great means. If he has the ability to immediately settle up with the players who finished high, then why have them wait for their winnings?
Was he actually unable to pay because fan attendance was poor? If this really was the case, then he sure cuts things close.
So for me, and as Jam also said, I'm just a railbird in this but I would say if Barry Behrman did figure things too close and has no other way to pay up immediately, then as long as all the checks clear on 3-15, you gotta give him an E for effort.
It is too bad, though, that the players have to get strung along for even one day after playing their hearts out.
And back to the word, optimum, I think we can also all agree that CSI should be the standard by which all pro tournaments are compared. :thumbup:
Best,
Brian kc
I will say that what I've seen of him, he does exude a lot of passion for pool. Of course, you can't cash passion.
Is it the end of the world if some of the high finishers in the Masters have to wait to cash their checks until March 15th? That isn't for me to say, my bills are getting paid from an entirely different fund.
I think we can all agree that getting stiffed and getting delayed are two different animals. Neither optimum, but if you had to choose one...
As I said, I don't know Mr. Behrman and whether or not he is a man of great means. If he has the ability to immediately settle up with the players who finished high, then why have them wait for their winnings?
Was he actually unable to pay because fan attendance was poor? If this really was the case, then he sure cuts things close.
So for me, and as Jam also said, I'm just a railbird in this but I would say if Barry Behrman did figure things too close and has no other way to pay up immediately, then as long as all the checks clear on 3-15, you gotta give him an E for effort.
It is too bad, though, that the players have to get strung along for even one day after playing their hearts out.
And back to the word, optimum, I think we can also all agree that CSI should be the standard by which all pro tournaments are compared. :thumbup:
Best,
Brian kc
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Not all checks are clearing on March 15th. As a matter of fact only one. They are stretched out until April 12th according to press release.
Quote: "Shannon and myself wrote eight checks that will be 100% good for 3/15/11, 3/22/11, 3/29/11, 4/5/11 and 4/12/11"
S.G.
Quote: "Shannon and myself wrote eight checks that will be 100% good for 3/15/11, 3/22/11, 3/29/11, 4/5/11 and 4/12/11"
S.G.
mlalum
Banned
I find it distasteful that a direct competitor to Barry B and his efforts are continually negatively posting on this thread. In a more professional world when some company is having a major problem they're competitors don't openly (except maybe broadcast tv and a couple others) dance on the grave and take the opportunity to extoll their own virtues. They would be counseled instead to let the obvious facts and public dismay stand on its own without their own added little knife twists.
did he post date the check for alana springsteen?
Sunny is not a competitor, she just has an opinion and like most of us cannot stand to see stuff like this. I have no problem with the tooting of one's horn so to speak if your doing the right things.
I may be wrong, but I don't think the law or the banks recognize a delayed payment check. I think once a check is written, it can be cashed.( if the funds are available)
The BCA Could be Right Behind Promoters, too
JAM brings up a key point with regards to the BCA. Having read the story about Barry's press conference (specifically about the number of pool tables sales he quoted) and the fact that rooms seem to be disappearing by the day, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the impact this has on the BCA.
Companies in a struggling US Pool industry cut optional expenses where they must, like memberships in trade organizations. And they also cut sponsorships and advertising, too.
I've always been dumbfounded that as a trade association, they've never seen organizing and endowing professional pool as a means to enhance overall pool participation for their industry members. Why is that?
Certainly there's more 'in the know' folks on here that can share thoughts on this. Please do...
JAM brings up a key point with regards to the BCA. Having read the story about Barry's press conference (specifically about the number of pool tables sales he quoted) and the fact that rooms seem to be disappearing by the day, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the impact this has on the BCA.
Companies in a struggling US Pool industry cut optional expenses where they must, like memberships in trade organizations. And they also cut sponsorships and advertising, too.
I've always been dumbfounded that as a trade association, they've never seen organizing and endowing professional pool as a means to enhance overall pool participation for their industry members. Why is that?
Certainly there's more 'in the know' folks on here that can share thoughts on this. Please do...
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