Post dated checks for final 8 at Master's
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
It never ceases to amaze me how -- when someone presents their point of view in a calm, rational, civil, informed, and logical manner -- there will always be someone out there willing to jump up and down, twist things around and take offense.
If anyone should be speaking up about what's going on in the world of pool tournaments it should be someone in that business and who repeatedly proves themselves above reproach. Every time one of these threads pops up someone inevitably says, "Well, if you think it's so easy, or that you can do better, go a head and put something on." Well guess what -- Mark has been doing exactly that. Mark and Sunny know the hurdles involved, they stick their necks out finicially, and walk the walk. And thousands of pool players are better off.
So if there's one person I want to hear from on this subject, it's Mark, who has put on some pretty big pool affairs and never air barreled or post-date a player.
Lou Figueroa
I was completely and utterly discouraged talking to a lady who plays in my APA league. She's been playing for probably 10 years now. Been to Vegas for APA, something not many in our part of the world can say. VERY active in league, and in our local tournaments.
Talking to her the other day, she had no idea who SVB was. Or Effren.
I was stunned. This is a woman who will talk to anyone who will listen (and many who won't) about meeting Johnny Archer and Nick Varner when they toured up here a few years ago. She'll talk about Alison Fisher all day. But no clue about two of the biggest names in pool. This is one of the most active pool players in our league. I'm quite sure most of the rest of our league would know even less. 95% at least.
I agree completely with those who state that the pro's should be involved with APA and BCApl. I don't know how the mechanics of it could be worked out, but I think pro pool needs league pool, and league pool could benefit from pro pool. The trick is getting them together. If professional pool is to survive, let alone thrive, this has to happen.
Last year I attended the WPBA event in Niagara Falls. There was also an APA team event going on. It was amazing to see how many of the WPBA players walked around and talked to the APA players, signed autographs, took pictures. Jeanette, Jasmin, Karen, you name it they were there supporting the APA league players. They even stayed and watched some of the APA matches
I am sure that is part of the sponsorship agrreement between the 2 entities but either way, the league players loved it. They were even some pros willing to hit a few balls with the league players after they were out of the WPBA event.
Mens pro pool needs to have one organization and that organization needs to find a way to partner up with the APA or BCAPL and take the pro game back to the grass roots level. As was stated earlier, the only organizations that seem to be making any money are the ones dealing directly with the lower level amatuer players. Maybe that should tell the pro's something. The real question is, are the pro's willing to take on the real "job" of helping to grow the game - and thus the gate at their events - if they could ever get one going.
While the WPBA does seem to have it's challenges it is miles ahead of where the mens pro game is right now.
Just my thoughts
Leaguguy
Goddamn! I luv ya baby! This may be the ALL TIME best post on AZ. Kind of puts in a nutshell of what the world of pro pool is like. Hassle, hassle, hassle and maybe make a buck or two at the end of the day. A very hard way to make an easy living! I'd give you triple green if I could for posting this. It's a classic.
Ouch, reminds me of the old pool joke. What do you call a pool player without a girlfriend?.......Homeless.
Guess it can include stakehorses now
Ironically, I have spoke to some players (active and retired), authors, and industry members who read this forum on an almost-daily basis but do not post.
Seriously???
Now he's started a new event, The Masters 10-ball. He's promised to give it a go again next year (even after the abysmal turnout). And get this, he still has the hope of building it into an event worthy of the name, The Masters. But alas, the spectators weren't supporting it this year. And still he has made the promissory notes to pay ALL the MONEY OWED, out of his own pocket!!!
To all naysayers, (like Mark Griffin for example) I say, where were you?
Why give someone who's PROVIDING: the field of play, putting the players on that field for the cash, and then PAYING them out of his own pocket, when all the pool playing enthusiasts in this country, B-I-T-*-H, but don't support the effort!
REALLY?
The World's economy is in the T-A-N-K, because of corrupt International Banking practices (like the repeal of Glass Steagal and the Federal Reserve System) and people don't take the time to find out what's really going on, and then do something constructive to change them!!! Pool is no different it seems, I guess the fans don't really care who the good guys in our sport are!
Barry Behrman is at least doing something to change the face of pool for the better, not just talking about doing something. Now he's starting another tradition, in a sport, where the fans, it seem to me, are unworthy and ungrateful of his efforts. If the new, The Masters 10-ball Tournament, turns out to be anything like the U.S.Open, Behrman will have BLESSED this sport once again!
To everyone of you who think it "should" be otherwise, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!!!:nono:
...well, to date, in these United States, No, one, person has done more to promote the last vestiges of Professional pool, than Barry Behrman with "H-I-S" tournament, the U.S. Open! He pays off when there is poor fan support, out of his own pocket!!! More to the point, he schedules his tournaments well in advance, and then makes good when the pool fans (not unlike yourself, apparently) don't show up to support the professional pool players and the ONLY event Left in this country with any kind of a heritage, the Open. AND GET THIS, to date, he's made good on his debts to the players!
Now he's started a new event, The Masters 10-ball. He's promised to give it a go again next year (even after the abysmal turnout). And get this, he still has the hope of building it into an event worthy of the name, The Masters. But alas, the spectators weren't supporting it this year. And still he has made the promissory notes to pay ALL the MONEY OWED, out of his own pocket!!!
To all naysayers, (like Mark Griffin for example) I say, where were you?
Why give someone who's PROVIDING: the field of play, putting the players on that field for the cash, and then PAYING them out of his own pocket, when all the pool playing enthusiasts in this country, B-I-T-*-H, but don't support the effort!
REALLY?
The World's economy is in the T-A-N-K, because of corrupt International Banking practices (like the repeal of Glass Steagal and the Federal Reserve System) and people don't take the time to find out what's really going on, and then do something constructive to change them!!! Pool is no different it seems, I guess the fans don't really care who the good guys in our sport are!
Barry Behrman is at least doing something to change the face of pool for the better, not just talking about doing something. Now he's starting another tradition, in a sport, where the fans, it seem to me, are unworthy and ungrateful of his efforts. If the new, The Masters 10-ball Tournament, turns out to be anything like the U.S.Open, Behrman will have BLESSED this sport once again!
To everyone of you who think it "should" be otherwise, PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!!!:nono:
Its unseemly because they're a competitor. Plain and simple. Everything they say is tainted because Barry's failure could be their gain.
I applaud what Mark his team do. My post that is quoted certainly does NOT say or imply "Well, if you think it's so easy, or that you can do better, go a head and put something on." They do things right and it's good for the players and pool. And they also know what it takes to do this kind of thing. They know the risks Barry takes better than anyone. When you say they risk their money, it's true, to a point. But they take the risk out of it by planning better and aiming lower. Their added money doesn't approach what Barry tries to do. Their one event with over $25K added was actually multiple events.
Barry swings for the fences and Mark hits singles. We need BOTH to make a good lineup. Sniping amongst the team is counterproductive and, yes, offensive. Commiseration is more in order than piling on. They can make their points just as strongly without disparaging another promoter. But, they choose to disparage. THAT is what makes me irate. I didn't twist anything they said. It was NOT civil...imo.
I would like to read a post from Jay Helfert. He may be able to shed some new light on this. One thing for sure, he knows what time of day it is.
Let's see, it's 8 AM here :wink:. I just got back yesterday from Norfolk and the Masters. For me it's a lonnnggg trip across the country, to work long days, to make a few bucks doing something I enjoy......most of the time.
The Masters was a first time event by someone who truly loves the game of pool and has utmost admiration for the players. That is who Barry Behrman is, besides being an astute businessman with one of the best poolrooms in America. Barry loves putting on tournaments and attracting the top players to play in them. He knows that to do that he needs to add significant money to the purse. Most of that comes out of his pocket. In this particular event, he added well over $25,000, including several free entry fees and giving many players a $100 discount on their entry. I'm guessing that his total outlay into this purse was nearly $30,000. That included paying off the prize fund for sixty players even though there were only 58 who showed up. Yes, he kept that extra $1,000 in the purse as well!
Additionally there were substantial extra expenses incurred by Barry in staging this event. I won't go into all of that here, just to say that the $25,000 in added money is only a portion of his expenses to put the Masters on. A major portion true, but not nearly all of it by any means. And Barry took a bath here! Big time! Did he whine and complain about it later? NO! Instead, all he could talk about was how he could make this event better next year. Lower entry fee ($250-300), holding it at his poolroom (less expenses) and retaining significant added money. If it were me, I would just pack it in and say this event doesn't work. But maybe that's why Barry has held the U.S. Open for 35 years and has continually maintained the largest poolroom in the area for 37 years. The man is no quitter!
The positives are that the players who finished 9th thru 24th were paid in cash on site. The top eight players did get checks, (so did I), that are post dated for short periods of time, allowing Barry to get the necessary monies into his account so that they clear. By the way, in many of the major tournaments held worldwide, players are paid via money transfers to their bank accounts. This process often takes a month or more to complete. Players are aware of this and accept it as the way business is often done.
LIke Mark, Greg and several other pool promoters I ALWAYS paid immediately at the conclusion (and during) all tournaments I ever produced. And a few times I went in my pocket (personal bank account) to make that happen. It's easy to criticize someone who is more of a risk taker than me, but I won't do that here. What I do know is that all money won in the U.S. Open has always been paid to the winning players, sometimes in installments that have been mutually agreed upon. I suspect that will be the case here as well. There is a reason that many of the top players keep coming back to the Open. They know the money is good, albeit sometimes a little slow.
I have to wonder where pro pool in America would be without Barry Behrman and the U.S. Open. It is considered one of the most important events held worldwide every year. And it all because of the continuing passion for pool of one man. I'm very happy that we have a few promoters in America who are willing to put the time and money into staging professional events. I salute Barry, Mark, Greg, the Seminole Tribe, Mike Zuglan and the others for doing just that. I see the problems inherent in staging these events and know that it's a thankless task at best. I am an advocate for the players and the promoters as well.
My outlook is not as dismal as some on here. I see more good added money (25K or more) events scheduled to be played in America this year then I have seen in many years. And that's a good thing. Like I said it's a tough way to make an easy living, but there are quite a few players who will put some good money in their pockets this year. Mika just picked up fifteen grand, so he had a another good week. I suspect Ralf and Mika both came out good this past week :wink:. Mike Davis wasn't too unhappy with his 5K score either.
Alex and Shane have made nice scores already and several other players have banked good too. It's true, only a handful of players will make a good living from pool this year, but that's just how it is. There's a million good golfers struggling to get on the Tour, any tour! We only see the ones making millions. But for every one of them there are a thousand guys who struggle to survive. In this respect, it's very similar to pro pool.
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JustRackem
Registered
This post gets my award for the Lamest post in this thread. You say he pays out of his own pocket like he is doing everyone a big favor. Dude, if he said he is going to pay out a certain amount of money, then he better pay that money. Be it from his own pocket or whatever. He is not doing anyone a favor here. He is a business man, just like all other business men.
Before you talk trash you should get your facts straight. Since you do not seem capable, I will help you out a little here.
The galveston world classic advertised big added money, and then screwed everyone who went there and did not do what they said they would. They did not pay the amounts advertised.
The Masters and Open not only do not pay on time, but they change the payout on the spot and give post dated checks. Again, not doing what they advertised.
Now lets take the tourney that CSI put on. The cue olympics or something like that. CSI lost out BIG , but still paid cash as advertised and took the loss. No post dated checks and no bs. That is how it should be done. That is Mark putting his money where his mouth is.
I have to ask, wtf do you do for pool?. You are very quick to nut ride barry and trash mark. It is like everything in life. The TRUE good guys always get shitted on.
Let's see, it's 8 AM here :wink:. I just got back yesterday from Norfolk and the Masters. For me it's a lonnnggg trip across the country, to work long days, to make a few bucks doing something I enjoy......most of the time.
The Masters was a first time event by someone who truly loves the game of pool and has utmost admiration for the players. That is who Barry Behrman is, besides being an astute businessman with one of the best poolrooms in America. Barry loves putting on tournaments and attracting the top players to play in them. He knows that to do that he needs to add significant money to the purse. Most of that comes out of his pocket. In this particular event, he added well over $25,000, including several free entry fees and giving many players a $100 discount on their entry. I'm guessing that his total outlay into this purse was nearly $30,000. That included paying off the prize fund for sixty players even though there were only 58 who showed up. Yes, he kept that extra $1,000 in the purse as well!
Additionally there were substantial extra expenses incurred by Barry in staging this event. I won't go into all of that here, just to say that the $25,000 in added money is only a portion of his expenses to put the Masters on. A major portion true, but not nearly all of it by any means. And Barry took a bath here! Big time! Did he whine and complain about it later? NO! Instead, all he could talk about was how he could make this event better next year. Lower entry fee ($250-300), holding it at his poolroom (less expenses) and retaining significant added money. If it were me, I would just pack it in and say this event doesn't work. But maybe that's why Barry has held the U.S. Open for 35 years and has continually maintained the largest poolroom in the area for 37 years. The man is no quitter!
The positives are that the players who finished 9th thru 24th were paid in cash on site. The top eight players did get checks, (so did I), that are post dated for short periods of time, allowing Barry to get the necessary monies into his account so that they clear. By the way, in many of the major tournaments held worldwide, players are paid via money transfers to their bank accounts. This process often takes a month or more to complete. Players are aware of this and accept it as the way business is often done.
LIke Mark, Greg and several other pool promoters I ALWAYS paid immediately at the conclusion (and during) all tournaments I ever produced. And a few times I went in my pocket (personal bank account) to make that happen. It's easy to criticize someone who is more of a risk taker than me, but I won't do that here. What I do know is that all money won in the U.S. Open has always been paid to the winning players, sometimes in installments that have been mutually agreed upon. I suspect that will be the case here as well. There is a reason that many of the top players keep coming back to the Open. They know the money is good, albeit sometimes a little slow.
I have to wonder where pro pool in America would be without Barry Behrman and the U.S. Open. It is considered one of the most important events held worldwide every year. And it all because of the continuing passion for pool of one man. I'm very happy that we have a few promoters in America who are willing put the time and money into staging professional events. I salute Barry, Mark, Greg, the Seminole Tribe, Mike Zuglan and the others for doing just that. I see the problems inherent in staging these events and know that it's a thankless task at best. I am an advocate for the players and the promoters as well.
My outlook is not as dismal as some on here. I see more good added money (25K or more) events scheduled to be played in America this year then I have seen in many years. And that's a good thing. Like I said it's a tough way to make an easy living, but there are quite a few players who will put some good money in their pockets this year. Mika just picked up fifteen grand, so he had a another good week. I suspect Ralf and Mika both came out good this past week. :wink:
Alex and Shane have made nice scores already and several other players have banked good too. It's true, only a handful of players will make a good living from pool this year, but that's just how it is. There's a million good golfers struggling to get on the Tour, any tour! We only see the ones making millions. But for every one of them there are a thousand guys who struggle to survive. In this respect, it is similar to pro pool.
That's a great post, Jay! Enjoyed the read. Thank you for providing your insights. Coming from you, they are sincere and bodes well for Barry Behrman. I knew you'd come through eventually and share those words of wisdom.
I would love for a pool promoter to put on a flyer or press release about his tournament - Payment to be made possibly by post dated checks in the event that we get a lower than expected turnout due to my not realizing there was another major event in the pool world on the same weekend or that my expenses would be increased even though I have put on a major event for 35 years and should have it figured out by now.
To all the pool players that got post dated checks, call Barry's bank and verify funds before cashing. This way you won't get hit with any fees if they bounce.
To all the pool players that got post dated checks, call Barry's bank and verify funds before cashing. This way you won't get hit with any fees if they bounce.