Predator Revo shaft full review and deflection test

Thanks for the comments, guys.

In regards to my deflection test: the hits I do for these tests are consistent and the soft hit on the Z2 review is the same as the G-Core review is the same as the REVO.

I really do look forward to more players getting a chance to try this shaft out for themselves; I think it's going to change a lot of minds about playing with non-wood shafts.

Also, "airhead" is one word. ;)
 
non wood shafts

Brandon Gramse said:
Thanks for the comments, guys.

In regards to my deflection test: the hits I do for these tests are consistent and the soft hit on the Z2 review is the same as the G-Core review is the same as the REVO.

I really do look forward to more players getting a chance to try this shaft out for themselves;
I think it's going to change a lot of minds about playing with non-wood shafts.

Also, "airhead" is one word. ;)
Click to expand...

So are you saying that the new predator cue is better then all the other cues you offer for sale ?
 
Brandon Gramse said:
Thanks for the comments, guys.

In regards to my deflection test: the hits I do for these tests are consistent and the soft hit on the Z2 review is the same as the G-Core review is the same as the REVO.

I really do look forward to more players getting a chance to try this shaft out for themselves; I think it's going to change a lot of minds about playing with non-wood shafts.

Also, "airhead" is one word. ;)
Click to expand...

Sweet.... thanks for setting things ah-right Brandon. Keep the reviews coming.

Lesh
 
spliced said:
The guy at the booth told me they are all 12.9mm and 3.8oz. As of now, the weight and diameter are not changable or customizable. Didnt sound like that was a plan for the future. .
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This right here raises questions and concerns regarding Predator's approach to shafts and individual pool players.

How can they spend the last decade bringing out different diameter shafts and promoting each diameter's benefits and qualities-players loyally playing with the equipment and getting used tip that size....and NOW the "revolution has begun" but only in 12.9mm.

So are they stating that diameter size makes no difference and it was just snake oil in releasing Z2 and Vantage with different sizes?
Or is the Revo snake oil because it's only one size fits all and cannot be modified?

I think predator might have jumped the gun on this all together. They should have a customizable size chart to order. Or in the very least, have them in the 3 different sizes of 314, Z2, and Vantage.
 
LAMas said:
More garbage?
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/cue.html#low_squirt
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Yes. Why? Because it lacks severely on the how and why factor. The CoR of a Z2 is going to be lower than my 13mm pro taper maple shaft. So when you take the same speed stroke and use a different shaft, the differences in the CoR of the shaft produce different cue ball speeds. The Z2 will seem like more of the energy is transferred into spin rather than speed, when it's really not. In order for a Z2 to impart the same spin:speed as my maple shaft does, I will need to strike the cue ball at a higher speed with it.

When using an LD shaft you have to strike the cue ball harder/faster to get the same output speed as my maple shaft gives. When doing that, the benefits of the LD shaft are negated. When I did my 'testing' I found that a Z2 had less than a 1/4" difference in deflection from my shaft, while also moving the cue ball a whole table length less. Does a 1/4" less deflection make me believe that's a benefit over losing a table length in speed? Hell no.

That's why when showing an arbitrary speed of 'soft' with different shafts doesn't work. LD shafts have a lower CoR and thus impart less speed into the cue ball. That lower speed coupled with the spin equates to less deflection and a swerve. I can get the exact same results with my shaft, but I have to hit the cue ball that much softer.

LD shafts are a bandaid to a knowledge problem. Learn a proper stroke and you can learn how to properly play with side spin.
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
Yes. Why? Because it lacks severely on the how and why factor. The CoR of a Z2 is going to be lower than my 13mm pro taper maple shaft. So when you take the same speed stroke and use a different shaft, the differences in the CoR of the shaft produce different cue ball speeds. The Z2 will seem like more of the energy is transferred into spin rather than speed, when it's really not. In order for a Z2 to impart the same spin:speed as my maple shaft does, I will need to strike the cue ball at a higher speed with it.

When using an LD shaft you have to strike the cue ball harder/faster to get the same output speed as my maple shaft gives. When doing that, the benefits of the LD shaft are negated. When I did my 'testing' I found that a Z2 had less than a 1/4" difference in deflection from my shaft, while also moving the cue ball a whole table length less. Does a 1/4" less deflection make me believe that's a benefit over losing a table length in speed? Hell no.

That's why when showing an arbitrary speed of 'soft' with different shafts doesn't work. LD shafts have a lower CoR and thus impart less speed into the cue ball. That lower speed coupled with the spin equates to less deflection and a swerve. I can get the exact same results with my shaft, but I have to hit the cue ball that much softer.

LD shafts are a bandaid to a knowledge problem. Learn a proper stroke and you can learn how to properly play with side spin.
Click to expand...

Wish I could give more "greens" to you man.
But, I think you will have some problems with this post........
The "MASTERS" of the game here in AZ don't like reading posts like that.
Your post is not "good" for the business................
 
How some people after 20 years of predator shafts think "low cue ball squirt" shafts are snake oil is beyond me.

They do "squirt" the cue ball less. The "swerve" of the CB after leaving the tip is the same. The CB to OB "throw" interactions during the collision are the same. The "spin" imparted to the CB is the same if the chalk marks match on the CB.

The only thing that is different is the "CB squirt".

No, they will not make you a better player. But yes, they "squirt" the CB less.

You still have to learn each shot inside and out when playing with ANY shaft. Figure out how much the CB moves (due to squirt, and swerve), and how much the OB throws after the CB hits it. And you have to learn this for EVERY shot on a pool table. They are all different! (Wait, unless you use CTE, then they are all exactly the same, god help me).

As far as Predator being a garbage company, that is implied in this thread, well, their name is on almost every pro event as a sponsor.

I have no affiliation to predator, only that I've been using their shafts since the late 90's. The beating they take on this forum is ridiculous. They started a whole new class of shafts, that everyone else has been copying for the past 15 years. They sponsor ever pro tournament it seems. They seem great for the game, to me. YMMV.
 
iusedtoberich said:
No, they will not make you a better player. But yes, they "squirt" the CB less.
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For a given input speed between standard and LD shafts, yes the LD shafts will deflect the cue ball less. For a given output speed the shafts will deflect the same. If we define the parameters of a given spin:speed for the cue ball, the shafts will deflect the same. It's why everyone started instantly criticizing Brandon's subject "soft" and "firm" shots. Yes LD shafts are snake oil. Some people know how and why they have their use. But for the vast majority of people, they have clue why they use that shaft other than they make more balls. Snake oil in my book.
 
spliced said:
I hit about ten shots with it at the expo and didnt miss a ball. It plays solid. The color of the shaft and lack of ferrule was a little distracting but i guess i could get used to it. It is solid carbon fiber, no wood at all. The weave of the fiber goes in different directions at different areas of the shaft to give appropriate strength and flexibility where needed. The guy at the booth told me they are all 12.9mm and 3.8oz. As of now, the weight and diameter are not changable or customizable. Didnt sound like that was a plan for the future. They will be releasing several new cues over the next few months that will feature the shaft and will have the shafts for sale by themselves even further into the future.
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It should not be difficult to change the diameter and or taper using carbon graphite woven in different thicknesses if there is a market for it to pay for the non recurring engineering..
 
Cardigan Kid said:
This right here raises questions and concerns regarding Predator's approach to shafts and individual pool players.

How can they spend the last decade bringing out different diameter shafts and promoting each diameter's benefits and qualities-players loyally playing with the equipment and getting used tip that size....and NOW the "revolution has begun" but only in 12.9mm.

So are they stating that diameter size makes no difference and it was just snake oil in releasing Z2 and Vantage with different sizes?
Or is the Revo snake oil because it's only one size fits all and cannot be modified?

I think predator might have jumped the gun on this all together. They should have a customizable size chart to order. Or in the very least, have them in the 3 different sizes of 314, Z2, and Vantage.
Click to expand...

This shaft isn't going to turn anybody into Willie Mosconi, so I don't see why everybody is getting so hyped up about it.

If you are an APA level 3, you'll still be a level 3 with this shaft. If you can run 100 balls playing 14.1, this shaft isn't going to jump you to 200.

Get used to something and quit thinking there is a "miracle" cue or shaft that will propel you to pool stardom. That will only come from playing and putting in the time to learn. 99% of people's pool problems isn't their equipment.
 
Like The Donald, some shooters have small hands and want a 9mm shaft.
I kid you not.:thumbup:
 
If the carbon shaft is made properly it will be expensive. Recently got to discover a material used in the composite industry, that enhances the composite materials characteristics, but is very very expensive. It will change cue making in the future that is for sure.
Neil
 
Brandon Gramse said:
Thanks for the comments, guys.

In regards to my deflection test: the hits I do for these tests are consistent and the soft hit on the Z2 review is the same as the G-Core review is the same as the REVO.

I really do look forward to more players getting a chance to try this shaft out for themselves; I think it's going to change a lot of minds about playing with non-wood shafts.

Also, "airhead" is one word. ;)
Click to expand...
Maybe not intended, but you were tapping at best doing that test. Look at your 314-2 test and compare to the Revo test. The only thing that test showed is that the cue ball you hit was round.
 
Brandon Gramse said:
Thanks for the comments, guys.

In regards to my deflection test: the hits I do for these tests are consistent and the soft hit on the Z2 review is the same as the G-Core review is the same as the REVO.

I really do look forward to more players getting a chance to try this shaft out for themselves; I think it's going to change a lot of minds about playing with non-wood shafts.

Also, "airhead" is one word. ;)
Click to expand...

Really... how's your 314-2 review consistent with this REVO shaft review? Anyone can tell that you're hitting the balls with different speed
Proof: https://youtu.be/znwVNc0EWb4?t=3m24s (314-2)
https://youtu.be/FTdflfh4GwU?t=36s (REVO)
 
HawaiianEye said:
This shaft isn't going to turn anybody into Willie Mosconi, so I don't see why everybody is getting so hyped up about it.

If you are an APA level 3, you'll still be a level 3 with this shaft. If you can run 100 balls playing 14.1, this shaft isn't going to jump you to 200.

Get used to something and quit thinking there is a "miracle" cue or shaft that will propel you to pool stardom. That will only come from playing and putting in the time to learn. 99% of people's pool problems isn't their equipment.
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly and 100%. My gripe in my previous post was on the inconsistencies between Predator's marketing campaign for the last decade (pushing off 4 diff size shafts) and now advertising something completely different as the "revolution" in cue technology but not offered in various sizes for the many different players/preferences that are out there.

It's either a really bad business model, or its admitting that their prior marketing of various cue diameters is disingenuous.

And I'm not really against the idea of a composite shaft, I think the durability is a great factor. With my butterfingers dropping my cue against the table, I have more than enough annoying dings than I like to admit. :sorry:
 
Hits 'em Hard said:
Yes. Why? Because it lacks severely on the how and why factor. The CoR of a Z2 is going to be lower than my 13mm pro taper maple shaft. So when you take the same speed stroke and use a different shaft, the differences in the CoR of the shaft produce different cue ball speeds. The Z2 will seem like more of the energy is transferred into spin rather than speed, when it's really not. In order for a Z2 to impart the same spin:speed as my maple shaft does, I will need to strike the cue ball at a higher speed with it.

When using an LD shaft you have to strike the cue ball harder/faster to get the same output speed as my maple shaft gives. When doing that, the benefits of the LD shaft are negated. When I did my 'testing' I found that a Z2 had less than a 1/4" difference in deflection from my shaft, while also moving the cue ball a whole table length less. Does a 1/4" less deflection make me believe that's a benefit over losing a table length in speed? Hell no.

That's why when showing an arbitrary speed of 'soft' with different shafts doesn't work. LD shafts have a lower CoR and thus impart less speed into the cue ball. That lower speed coupled with the spin equates to less deflection and a swerve. I can get the exact same results with my shaft, but I have to hit the cue ball that much softer.

LD shafts are a bandaid to a knowledge problem. Learn a proper stroke and you can learn how to properly play with side spin.
Click to expand...

Green all the way on this. Excellent observation and statement of fact. :thumbup:
 
I was able to hit a few shots with this shaft at the Expo.

It is smooth and feels good in the hand. I told the Predator guys that I would like to see what it feels like after a year of play. For what it is worth, the booth guy said he'd had his for months and it is still the same.

Tony Robles wacked the shaft pretty hard on an aluminum pipe and it had no damage.

The cue also hit and sounded good. I know these are subjective, but it did not have a "ping" or other unpleasant feel.

I hit a few table length shots at the end rail and it seemed to deflect about an inch - but that's just eyeballing.

I also hit maybe 4-5 shots with significant English and made every one (which is odd, because I shoot with a first generation 314 and was not consciously adjusting).

Unfortunately, to really evaluate it, I would need to have it for much longer and directly compare with my current set up. That said, it is a very interesting development and is at least worthy of consideration among those who like an LD shaft.

Gideon
 
If and when this thing is sold as an "after market" shaft, will it require special equipment to sand it down to a different taper or size, or is that even possible?

I'm thinking there is great potential for somebody screwing this thing up and voiding the warranty if you go messing with it trying to customize it to your liking.
 
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