Pro Billiard Players Unite in Organizing

JAM

I am the storm
Silver Member
Professional billiard players unit in organizing protective association. :yes:

Many of the leading players have joined the fraternity and the rest are expected to come in. Realizing the value of an organization, the professional billiard players of the country have banded together and perfected an association modeled on lines similar to Baseball Players Fraternity.

The name of the new organization, which has been granted a charter approved by Judge James C. Cropsey of Superior Court of the State of New York, is Professional Billiard Players' Fraternity.

The purpose of the fraternity, set forth in the incorporation of the papers and bylaws:

To protect and promote the interests of professional pocket and billiard players; to promote the game of billiards in all its forms; to protect the professional players in their relations with each other and in their relations with and to the public; to have every reasonable obligation of players' contracts lived up to by both parties; to abolish 'sharking'; to discountenance rowdyism and unfairness during match games and tournaments; to advise the players concerning any real or fancied grievance, and in the case if former exists, to prepare his case for him; to adjust and arbitrate, whenever possible, disputes between players, among themselves or with others, with respect to billiards; to prevent, as far as possible, adverse legislation; to cooperate with all amateur organizations in the efforts to make billiards a clean sport."

It looks as of pool has been trying to organize for almost a century now in the United States. If the above-referenced organization had succeeded, I wonder where pocket and billiard players would be today in 2008. Notice the words "his" and "him" are used throughout the article, with no mention of "her" or "she." :blush:

And that's the way it was August 15, 1920, according to The New York Times: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archiv...91E31E433A25756C1A96E9C946195D6CF&oref=slogin

JAM
 
Nice find Jam, and thanks for posting it. 1920 geeeez. They couldn't even get it together back then. Damn New Yorker's.:) . Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
Nice find Jam, and thanks for posting it. 1920 geeeez. They couldn't even get it together back then. Damn New Yorker's.:) . Johnnyt

At least then, though, Johnny, pool was recognized as a sport, getting media coverage in The New York Times, no less.

Today, I see pool mentioned in The Washington Post, as an example, maybe once a year, if that.

Pool needs an agent. :grin:

JAM
 
JAM said:
At least then, though, Johnny, pool was recognized as a sport, getting media coverage in The New York Times, no less.

Today, I see pool mentioned in The Washington Post, as an example, maybe once a year, if that.

Pool needs an agent. :grin:

JAM
Pool was pretty big up until the 1940's in NY anyway. There was always a big tournament or challenge match going on at one of the finer NY hotels or ballrooms. If you look at old pictures from them you'll see the place would be packed with well dressed fans. Too many other things to do today.

A baseball game is considered too long and boring now. Imagime what they think of a three and four day pool tournament. The only sport I can think of is golf where the fans turn out or watch hours of it on TV.

There are just too many players calling themselves pros now. Someone need to take the top 100 to 200 and start a tour. There are just too many that are trying to make a living playing pool. I figued it out 50 years ago and almost always had a job or a business, yet I managed to play for money just about everyday of my life. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
Pool was pretty big up until the 1940's in NY anyway. There was always a big tournament or challenge match going on at one of the finer NY hotels or ballrooms. If you look at old pictures from them you'll see the place would be packed with well dressed fans. Too many other things to do today.

A baseball game is considered too long and boring now. Imagime what they think of a three and four day pool tournament. The only sport I can think of is golf where the fans turn out or watch hours of it on TV.

There are just too many players calling themselves pros now. Someone need to take the top 100 to 200 and start a tour. There are just too many that are trying to make a living playing pool. I figued it out 50 years ago and almost always had a job or a business, yet I managed to play for money just about everyday of my life. Johnnyt

There's a lot of truth in what you say for sure.

You know, I was shocked the other day to learn that several of my co-workers who work with me from around the country don't own a land line phone. The only phone they have is their cell phone. They have a wireless connection for their Internet, without high-speed cable or a land line for DSL.

When I go out and about in my area, I see young adults typing with two fingers on their BlackBerries. They're speed typists with those two fingers on that itty bitty keyboard.

In this era of technology, the Internet seems to me that it will be the vehicle for communication, as well as media viewing for pleasure, much like what TAR, RunoutRadio, ProVideo, Accu-Stats, BCn, and others are doing today by recording the pool matches.

This kind of coverage helps to get pool out there on the map, I think. Much more so than newspapers, magazines, and TV do today. In fact, as we all know, there is not much coverage in mainstream media today in America. Philippines, every single day, there's a newsworthy item coming out in the press about pool players.

Years ago, it was the newspapers, like The New York Times, that spread the word about what was happening. Today, it is the Internet.

Will it replace TV coverage for pool? It looks like the revolution is already happening.

Will it be successful and help to elevate pool as a sport? I sure hope so. :thumbup2:

JAM
 
Professional Billiard Players' Fraternity would be like Professional Gunslingers' Fraternity - an oxymoron:smile: :smile: :smile:
 
bfdlad said:
So does anyone know what is going on with the UPA or Mark Griffin's deal?

I heard something that Mark Griffin's deal might not happen now. The players are not supporting it for some reason. Not sure though, I'd be interested in finding out. And I know of one UPA league that might be popping up in the Phoenix Area, but I don't have detail yet. Just leads....
 
Damn, JAM, you got me with that one. I thought it was a new thing. Nice post. Just another in the long list of failed pro organizations that usually bit off more than they could chew.
 
stuckart said:
I heard something that Mark Griffin's deal might not happen now. The players are not supporting it for some reason. Not sure though, I'd be interested in finding out...

It'll be difficult for anybody to accomplish anything - INCLUDING MARK GRIFFIN - when you have a lot of people that have gone out of there way to say that Mark doesn't respect the players.

The people that are going around saying that crap are twisting Mark's words in an attempt to push their own agenda - which IMO is old, stale, useless, and idiotic.

If any of you are out there reading this ... if the shoe fits, wear the damn thing before somebody takes it and shoves it where it belongs.

:)

Mark is trying to move forward, but we have these people trying to start a tug of war with the loyalty of the players.

Business as usual.
 
stuckart said:
I heard something that Mark Griffin's deal might not happen now. The players are not supporting it for some reason. Not sure though, I'd be interested in finding out. And I know of one UPA league that might be popping up in the Phoenix Area, but I don't have detail yet. Just leads....
I hadn't heard that mark Griffin's deal may not happen. I have heard that he had alot of stipulations on the agreement that in his own words more than once would make him "GOD". This was said more than once and I think that the players are maybe a little concerned about that. Then again thats only what I have heard. The UPA, I know Frank Alverez lived in Phoenix and so I can believe that the UPA may do something in PHX. It seems right now that nothing is going on but then again I guess something like this needs planning and that takes time.
 
the PLAN is still going to happen

This is just an update. My project is going forward. I am sure there are those that think it may not happen - but I am going to do what I said i was going to do.

I have had several conversations with a lot of players. Everyone has some questions and I think I have answered them to their satisfaction. I have met with several industry leaders (at the BCA Expo) and am digesting that input.

By stating I said I was GOD is taking things out of context. I also did NOT say pool players are dumb. I did say pool players as a group have made some dumb decisions.

If you have questions, please put them to me and get an accurate answer rather. That is better than posting rumors and thoughts that jut confuse everyone. As stated before, I am going to need a lot of help in making this happen - and posting confusion is NOT HELPING.

I have shown that I respect the players and their abilities a lot more than most. I do not know of any players that 'don't support' my concept. But I do know a lot of players that are going to wait and see.

And that is all I ask for - a fair chance to make it happen.

If you have any questions, please contact me at markg@playbca.com. If it is an important or time sensitve issue, call me on my cell 812-987-1461. Offfice phone is 702-719-7665 but I will be out of the office a fair amount in near future.

Mark Griffin
BCA Pool League
USA Pool League
Diamond Billiard Products
 
Mark Griffin said:
This is just an update. My project is going forward. I am sure there are those that think it may not happen - but I am going to do what I said i was going to do.

I have had several conversations with a lot of players. Everyone has some questions and I think I have answered them to their satisfaction. I have met with several industry leaders (at the BCA Expo) and am digesting that input.

By stating I said I was GOD is taking things out of context. I also did NOT say pool players are dumb. I did say pool players as a group have made some dumb decisions.

If you have questions, please put them to me and get an accurate answer rather. That is better than posting rumors and thoughts that jut confuse everyone. As stated before, I am going to need a lot of help in making this happen - and posting confusion is NOT HELPING.

I have shown that I respect the players and their abilities a lot more than most. I do not know of any players that 'don't support' my concept. But I do know a lot of players that are going to wait and see.

And that is all I ask for - a fair chance to make it happen.

If you have any questions, please contact me at markg@playbca.com. If it is an important or time sensitve issue, call me on my cell 812-987-1461. Offfice phone is 702-719-7665 but I will be out of the office a fair amount in near future.

Mark Griffin
BCA Pool League
USA Pool League
Diamond Billiard Products
Mr. Griffin,
We are using your proposed handicapped system thats to be used in the USA pool league in the BCA in-house league I started Monday night. It is every interesting and I honestly feel with the proper marketing tools you'll be able to acquire alot of the APA league teams in this area. Thanks for all you're doing and good luck in your continued success.
 
Did you talk to Mark G?

stuckart said:
I heard something that Mark Griffin's deal might not happen now. The players are not supporting it for some reason. Not sure though, I'd be interested in finding out.

Who told you that it may not happen? It really blows my mind that Mark G. posts his contact information all over and a simple phone call would answer all your question, yet people would go rely on ignoranace.

And you said "the players are not supporting for some reason", are you talking about pool players? The same pool players who show up to a tournament and drinks free water the whole weekend and not spend a dime but complain about poor service and not enough added money? Are you talking about pool players who think they are "TOO BIG" of player that the tournament promoter/ room owner should pay their travel expense to show up for the tournament because their sheer presence would boost the business? If you're talking about these pool players, yes he's not getting much "support" from many of them. They are actually waiting and wondering when the pay day is.

However, there are small number of "self promoting" pool players who are onboard and are eager to help. Also, surprising number of women players are extremely supportive and anxious to join.

If Mark G. says he's going to do it, he will do it even if it ends up taking a beating in his bank account. He sure is stubborn, though... :bash: I just wish he received more support from the industry.

S.
 
Many people in the United States have the same opinion as you, Sunnyday, when it comes to some American pool players. :(

I cannot tell you how many T-shirts, polo shirts, baseball caps, and other souvenirs I have picked up from host pool rooms when I come to the tour events. My boyfriend plays in 'em, and I watch 'em. If they served food and/or beverages, we always spend our monies there. In fact, I would hazard a guess that our tab at the end of the day at some pool rooms, depending on what they serve, is the largest tab. :wink2:

I sure do hope Mark Griffin's vision of the new tour comes to the fore soon. I think many folks are looking forward to it. :clapping: :clapping:

Here is what I see as one hurdle we need to overcome with pool in America. When I do a Google search for the latest news about billiards, a page will pop up with about a dozen newspaper and magazine articles from the last 24 hours, and sometimes every single one of those newspaper and magazines are located in Philippines, Puerto Rico, England, India, et cetera. Rarely is there a newspaper and/or magazine article from the United States. Here's today's Google search for pool in the news: http://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&q=billiards pool player

The United States media very rarely publishes pool articles. This was quite different in the 1920s, as evidenced by the lead post in this thread. The New York Times published pool articles all the time, as did other newspapers.

Maybe if pool could get in the American mainstream media somehow, it would help. With the new tour on the horizon, I'd like to see some publicity in the news about it. That way, pool can get some sort of name brand recognition. I believe that is what it needs. When people tune into the TV or read about it in the mainstream media, they will know who Shane Van Boening and Johnny Archer are and want to watch them compete.

JAM
 
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JAM said:
... Maybe if pool could get in the American mainstream media somehow, it would help. With the new tour on the horizon, I'd like to see some publicity in the news about it. That way, pool can get some sort of name brand recognition. I believe that is what it needs. When people tune into the TV or read about it in the mainstream media, they will know who Shane Van Boening and Johnny Archer are and want to watch them compete.JAM

Good points. I'd suggest tho that the vast majority view pool more as simply recreation with a few friends and some cold ones and have no interest in formal competition or the top names in the sport (other then J Lee, Allison and a few others).

Now if some Chris Poolplayer won a qualifier with a $50 entry and then went on to win a $mill in a big tourny we could have another craze similar to poker. Just an opinion.
 
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Steven...Mark Griffin's USA League is not about competing with, or stealing players from, any other league, including BCAPL, VNEA, TAP, or any other organized pool league. It is about developing a grass-roots fan base for pool, by getting millions of 'average joes' into an organized league structure, where they don't have pay an arm and a leg, to play...and to take the profits and fund a legitimate pro tour! I believe in Mark's project, and will do anything I can to support it, and help it come to pass!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

beav99_4life said:
Mr. Griffin,
We are using your proposed handicapped system thats to be used in the USA pool league in the BCA in-house league I started Monday night. It is every interesting and I honestly feel with the proper marketing tools you'll be able to acquire alot of the APA league teams in this area. Thanks for all you're doing and good luck in your continued success.
 
One change at a time

JAM said:
The United States media very rarely publishes pool articles. This was quite different in the 1920s, as evidenced by the lead post in this thread. The New York Times published pool articles all the time, as did other newspapers.

Maybe if pool could get in the American mainstream media somehow, it would help. With the new tour on the horizon, I'd like to see some publicity in the news about it. That way, pool can get some sort of name brand recognition. I believe that is what it needs. When people tune into the TV or read about it in the mainstream media, they will know who Shane Van Boening and Johnny Archer are and want to watch them compete.

JAM

I don't think it will happen over night but I think Mark's plan is heading pool in the right direction. With bigger payouts/purses media and general public will start accepting pool as a competitive sport. Plus, there will be stadards of behavior that these players will have to abide by to clean up the image of pool. It may take years..., maybe forever to have pool accepted by mainstream America, but one change at a time...

S.
 
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