Qlympics auggestions

M

Mark Griffin

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PLEASE KEEP THIS ON TOPIC - thanks

As those that have followed already know, the Qlympics event held Nov 1-18in Louisville, had a less than stellar attendence. What I would like is some discussion as to why.

In other threads, several items were mentioned:

Location: we can really only do a 9' table event close to the factory. Costs of moving tables (only 16 in a truck) gets a little high. Kinda same with 7'. It really helps to keep in Louisville. There are NO places available in Vegas.

Dates: Very few hotels have the space for a tournament. We have to take less popular dates to get affordable room rate. Also, for an amateur base, the event cannot start before most of the leagues start (Sept-Oct range).
The event is close to Derby-but had longer more serious games. I agree I should have stuck with the original entry of $100 (which we raised to $200 back in January). But the US Open 9-ball and World 14.1 were $500.

The WPC had not decided the venue (or finalized the dates) until after we went with our dates. Only 12 Americans really played at WPC. Matchroom and I talk on these issues and try to work together.

Length: We obviously goofed in promoting the event as 18 days long. It was many shorter events over an 18 day period. I kinda assumed people could figure that out - I was wrong.

Confusion: Combining 9' and 7' table events. Especially in promoting amatuer events on 9' tables. I will not try that again and that is unfortunate. Many in my age group grew up playing in pool rooms with 9' tables - I think todays players are intimidated by 9' tables.

I believe 9' events could be successful - but I blew over $60,000 trying to do this event. Keep in mind, I am not crying - I am known for trying the unusual. And I will do it again. If I wasn't adventuresome, I would not have purchased the BCAPL.

I will say - to my credit - that most who attended had a pretty good time. We stated $30,000 in added money and we added $30,000!!! I like the pool world to know we do what we say we will do. The hotel would love to have us back and we are decididng if we want to try this again.

AND THAT IS WHAT WE NEED FROM YOU. Please try and provide us with some thoughtful suggestions. I woul dlike to continue amateur and pro side-by-side events. I know we would shorten future events to a total of 8-9 days.

I will be out of state until Dec. 2nd - so please do not expect to much input from me until I return.

Mark Griffin
BCA Pool League
www.playbca.com
 
Mark,
Your excellent post seems to have nicely summarized some great ideas you've already come up with. Personally, I think the "length" comments you posted were right on target. So, maybe a better description detailing the exact dates of the various events would clear up some possible confusion. It seems to me that only retired people or those living very close by could be able to take almost 3 weeks out of their schedule for a pool tourney. I know that not everybody attending played in all the events, but maybe the scheduled length was a reason why many just followed it on the forums.
Also, maybe cutting down on some of the "weaker" events as you would so deem them would make this whole thing easier. Starting huge is always tougher than starting smaller and building it.
Lastly, I want to congratulate you for not only loving our great sport, but for also loving it enough to show that love with your wallet. Remember, the Wright brothers are not famous for their early attempts. They got famous (read success) after they got the kinks out and stuck with what they believed in.
I'm hoping the best is yet to come for our great sport and I believe you will play a significant part in that success.
My best to you and yours. And thanks again!
 
I think the 18 days was the major problem. First time events are generally lightly attended until the word gets out. I was there, had a good time, loved the action challange matchs. Hotel was nice and reasonable. Plenty of good places to eat very close by. I think you need less days and more hours played during the days (similiar to Vegas and DCC). Next year should be better.
 
I attended and played in the bank and one pocket and i believe the lack of turnout was based on a few minor things.

1. The pro events starting on a monday and being 200 is not going to get ANY locals who are mediocre players.
They must take off work for at least 3 or 4 days and pay that huge amount to play a champion who they have no chance against.
I only played because i was not working and had a chance to take my brother to his firsts pro tournament and since i am in cincy it was only an hour and half away and of course i had a backers put me in the events but i paid all other costs!

2. The dress code is abslutely ridiculous. I was playing shannon daulton in the morning and he had on a very ice sweater, and was told to change because of the collar only policy. I love the idea of dress codes and have no problem following them!!!! IF I KNOW ABOUT THEM. You should have to look decent but wearing a nice sweater or turtleneck is doing that also. The COLLARED shirt rule should have modified to NO TEESHIRTS.

3. I thought the hotel was a little rundown, but the are where the tournament was, was ok. Not charging admission was good but the pro tournaments should always start on thursday so the partimers can only take one day off work and still play!!! AND the spectaters can come on friday and saturday, spend money to stay in the hotel and watch the creamof the crop play.
In this the amateurs events where on the weekends, which i know why because he figured he would get more, but people are not going to come there on the weekends to watch amateurs.

4 This is probably the worst one of ALL. They closed the poolroom at Midnight. How hard is it to stay open so the gambling can take place THERE and the people who PAID to come down there dont have to travel to a pool room to watch any action. That in my opinion was the worst thing that could happen. I guarantee the 10 ball and staright pool turnout and a little bit to do with peolple there telling friends and them telling friends the place closed so , no one wanted to come down and stay all day and watch 3 rounds of matches
 
Imho

Hey Mark,
First off , for me , it was too close to the US Open . Not only the money factor but taking time off as well. Also Derby City is right around the corner so I had to choose between the the two.

Also I would like to see you use the grass roots of your BCAPL to host qualifiers in the bigger rooms to have a chance to win your way there. Even if the qualifier is played on a bar table and the main tournament is on 9 footers that makes no difference to a pool player. Do you think you might get 100 leagues to send a representative ( winner of the qualifier ) to the tournament?

I would also like to see you separate one of the events as the main event. Straight pool , banks , and one pocket are great games but the should have less money added.( Maybe you did that but I can't recall) I would add more money to the 10 ball and make it more of a draw to the pro players to want to come. i DON'T THINK 200 WAS TOO MUCH. Mix in the qualifiers and I see a 256 bracket filled up. The power is in numbers. Maybe even have two winners at each location. Esp. the bigger leagues. I think it would be awesome to say I got to play Efren , Corey or SVB. The experience would mean a lot to a hard core pool player that doesn't compete on a pro level.

I would suggest having the tournament in an area that would be conducive to a spouse that didn't want to watch pool 24/7. Maybe a resort with a casino, golf course , spa , and shopping close by. It is much easier to sell to the wives that way. lol but I'm for real on that.

I would also suggest having an area with 10 or 12 pool tables that could be rented out for practice and action adjacent to or in close proximity to the tournament. It would be well worth it to hire someone to over see that and keep it open as long as there is people playing. I would pay 10 an hour just to hit balls at the US open as long as I don't have to leave the convention center.

YOU DO GREAT THINGS FOR POOL AND I APPRECIATE YOUR EFFORTS. I HOPE THIS HASNT DISHEARTED YOU. KEEP ON KEEPING ON. WE NEED YOU!!!:) JUST MY THOUGHTS OR 2 CENTS WORTH.
 
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Mark,

First off Congrats for putting it together and following through on your commitments-that alone is HUGE and why I will support the next event in some way,

I have alot of ideas, to many to post here, please call me I'm in vegas at home til I leave for reno Dec 3. then back during Mosconi cup,

For now I'll be breif, I think the biggest mistake was simpally the timing, Right after summer, Labor or Mamorial day(i awalys get them confused) and just before the Holidays, In my business I'm in 39 states and when you did your even its the WORST time of year for me for the past 11 years, and was in a retail business before that, Its just a jinx unless you own Wal-mart, your battling back-to-school, this year high fuel costs, Acdditionally it was running Concurrently with all the stuff going on in Asia. You had alot stack against you, pro's over in Asia, a jinx of a month for business(people in general arte recovering from summera nd saving up for christmas) its on the 50 yard line.

Second the name could be better, I spoke to 2 people who origonally though it was a handicapp event only, I'm all for wheelchair events etc, i love to watch them, but something about the name wasnt working, personally I thought it was fine, I was just asking around for you.

lastly the 18 days thing you addressed it perfectly in your post, short and sweet and non-stop.

best regards

Fatbot,

lets do something, i'm in.
 
Mark:

The only thing that comes to my mind is the proximity to the DCC. That's building up to be a mecca of pool and I'm guessing most people can't make both. If it would move away from DCC (time-wise), it would be more successful.

Even though I couldn't attend, I wanted to say "thank-you" for taking a swing at doing something really good for pool.

Regards,
Dave
 
You know I really wanted to attend -- anything with major One Pocket & Banks!
I could not swing the commitment to take an extra week off from work, and so close to Derby City. I personally was quite bummed to discover my favorite events were entirely midweek, so I couldn't even sneak down for a weekend to catch the last few rounds. For me to come down for two days midweek, plus the travel time, pretty much would have wiped out that work week for me.

Mark, thank you for all you do, and I sure hope you find a formula that is successful. I would love to see a companion event to DCC, that is further removed by time of year.
 
This event has all the makings to be another DCC, with a plethora of competitive opportunities available to players of all caliber, and THAT is a very good thing. It encompasses everyone who enjoys pool. :)

Logistics, as was addresed by you and others, is important. It is a difficult balance to match up an available date at a hotel venue site and not have it clash with dates of other pool happenings. As was stated by others, it is so difficult for working folk to take off work to attend pool events. With the DCC happening in January and the U.S. Open in October, this may have been why some were unable to attend, not wanting to take too much time off from work within a 3-month span.

The Mid-Atlantic 9-Ball Championship was a victim of scheduling too close to the DCC and the Super Bowl and the Music City Open. Throw in a snow blizzard and you've got the makings for low attendance. It was tragic for the promoter because this was truly a magnificant tournament. The players came, but there were only, literally, a handful of spectators in the audience. Some of the vendors refused to pay the promoter their vendor fees because of the low attendance, which added fuel to the fire.

In straying off the topic of the thread just a wee bit, pool is lucky to have industry members like Mark Griffin. You have transformed the BCA League into a complete success. A dream come true for me would be for you to take over the BCA organization and point it in a different direction.

With your business sense AND passion for the sport, it would elevate pool in the United States. JMHO, FWIW!

JAM
 
THANK YOU MARK GRIFFIN!! THANK YOU MARK GRIFFIN!!

That is what I wanted to say first. Pool needs a few more guys like this and it would really be going someplace. But there is a limit to what one man can do, and Mark seems to be reaching his.

Mark, you have already heard my comments about the Qlympics personally and you have addressed them in your post, so I won't repeat them here. I would strongly suggest you look for Summer dates for the next Qlympics. Five to seven months apart from Derby City and MUCH BETTER WEATHER! Some of us are not cold weather freaks like you "Alaskans". :)

An eight or nine day Qlympics in June, July or August has a good chance of working quite well. JMHO as always. Now about that One Pocket game you keep woofin' about. You'll have to stand in line behind your buddy Greg, who has been chasing my scalp in Banks for years now. See you in Vegas Mr. Sullivan. Bring your cue!
 
Mark Griffin said:
PLEASE KEEP THIS ON TOPIC - thanks

As those that have followed already know, the Qlympics event held Nov 1-18in Louisville, had a less than stellar attendence. What I would like is some discussion as to why.

In other threads, several items were mentioned:

Location: we can really only do a 9' table event close to the factory. Costs of moving tables (only 16 in a truck) gets a little high. Kinda same with 7'. It really helps to keep in Louisville. There are NO places available in Vegas.

Dates: Very few hotels have the space for a tournament. We have to take less popular dates to get affordable room rate. Also, for an amateur base, the event cannot start before most of the leagues start (Sept-Oct range).
The event is close to Derby-but had longer more serious games. I agree I should have stuck with the original entry of $100 (which we raised to $200 back in January). But the US Open 9-ball and World 14.1 were $500.

The WPC had not decided the venue (or finalized the dates) until after we went with our dates. Only 12 Americans really played at WPC. Matchroom and I talk on these issues and try to work together.

Length: We obviously goofed in promoting the event as 18 days long. It was many shorter events over an 18 day period. I kinda assumed people could figure that out - I was wrong.

Confusion: Combining 9' and 7' table events. Especially in promoting amatuer events on 9' tables. I will not try that again and that is unfortunate. Many in my age group grew up playing in pool rooms with 9' tables - I think todays players are intimidated by 9' tables.

I believe 9' events could be successful - but I blew over $60,000 trying to do this event. Keep in mind, I am not crying - I am known for trying the unusual. And I will do it again. If I wasn't adventuresome, I would not have purchased the BCAPL.

I will say - to my credit - that most who attended had a pretty good time. We stated $30,000 in added money and we added $30,000!!! I like the pool world to know we do what we say we will do. The hotel would love to have us back and we are decididng if we want to try this again.

AND THAT IS WHAT WE NEED FROM YOU. Please try and provide us with some thoughtful suggestions. I woul dlike to continue amateur and pro side-by-side events. I know we would shorten future events to a total of 8-9 days.

I will be out of state until Dec. 2nd - so please do not expect to much input from me until I return.

Mark Griffin
BCA Pool League
www.playbca.com
Click to expand...


The first year never starts with a bang even with a great promoter and a super successful "sister event". Recent examples are the Masters try by Barry Behrman and the "second expo" by Allen Hopkins.

As far as the tables-Doesn't Diamond sell any tables out West? You send them out one at a time? Couldn't you send a bunch out to a temporary storage space and then promote them during the tournament? or work a deal with a local to take them.

If you cant find a way to get out of Louisville then i think you just have to seriously downsize and crawl before you walk or have a chance to walk.

NO Vegas- H about Reno? They just lost a tournament out there and there was a time just a few years ago when they drew 256 players so the players are there.

I wouldn't worry too much about room rates-Pool Players will find a way.

Still, start small and encourage players to sign up early so you can stay flexible and manage some costs. Give free entry to the current World champion, US open champion, 14.1 champion and a couple of Hall of Famers or whoever- you get the idea-Get commitments from them and advertise their playing.
 
Mark, you are a class act.....Thank you.

Getting this thing figured out may take some time but you will do it right I'm sure.

Let me put some brain power to this with you.
randyg
 
I felt from the get-go that the dates were too close to the DCC. Most out-of-town "B" players will not go to the expense of travelling to Louisville, then returning for the DCC two months later. So they're going to attend the big one.

If a league tournament must only be scheduled in Sept./Oct., then you'll probably have to decide whether you want the event to be league or non-league.

I was hoping you'd continue the U.S. Open one-pocket tradition August. But I can see the problem with scheduling a suitable Louisville venue in the Summer. I don't think the $200 entry is too much for a 1P or a banks event. There are so few, that even "B" players will pay the fee.

I know you can work these things out. Looking forward to hearing your responses.

Doc
 
Mark

18 days was a bit too long.

The event coincided with other events - the WPC - and it is a bit close to the holidays.

I had also heard that there were different rates for entries. If you stayed at the host hotel - you paid one fee - if you didn't you paid something else. To me, that's just rumor control, perhaps you could clarify that. (more on that below)...

I was very interested in playing in the straight pool event, but in the end, I had scheduled too many classes for pool players locally - that took priority. Honestly, I knew nothing about the 14.1 event until mid october.

As a player, I am always looking for ways to keep my expenses down. Gas is $3.21 a gallon - that sucks when you have to drive 800 miles to an event - then drive back. I compared that to flying there - not much difference in price.

I won't pay $80 - $100 a night for a room, no matter what deal the promoter gets with the hotel. I will always try to find the best bargain for a room on the internet while planning my trip. One time I paid $35 a night for a room at the Ramada in Hollywood, Florida - only because I know how to hunt for those kinds of bargains. If at all possible, I will stay with a friend that lives in the area to cut out the hotel costs. If I hear that I will be penalized with a higher entry fee for trying to keep my costs down - big red flag. Like I said, I hope that was just a rumor. That rumor was not what led to me not attending your event - it was a scheduling issue. The rumor just raised my eyebrows. Please clarify that for me here or in private.

I think your biggest issue was timing. Having an event just prior to the holidays - only to have DCC scheduled immediately after the holidays - that's asking a bit too much, but you live and you learn.

I think that the perfect time to have scheduled this event would have been immediately after or before the World 10 Ball event (in May). You would have attracted a lot of the players - including a lot of Filippinos. I believe if you strategically plan the next event immediately before or immediately after that or the US Open, you will attract a lot more business. By the time your event started, the WPC was going strong - and I believe that people/fans were focused on that more than anything else.

I am glad that we have you out there promoting these events. I will definitely leave my schedule open for next year to attend as a player or purchase booth space as a vendor. Keep us posted, and best of luck to you.
 
Have you ever considered Atlanta, Ga for the location? Airline tickets are much cheaper to and from there and they have a huge population to support such an event. Also the demographics I read stated that Atlanta was a days(10 to 12 hours) drive for 75% of the entire population of the country. Where are some other cities that might work?
 
Blackjack said:
Mark

18 days was a bit too long.

The event coincided with other events - the WPC - and it is a bit close to the holidays.

I had also heard that there were different rates for entries. If you stayed at the host hotel - you paid one fee - if you didn't you paid something else. To me, that's just rumor control, perhaps you could clarify that. (more on that below)...
I was very interested in playing in the straight pool event, but in the end, I had scheduled too many classes for pool players locally - that took priority. Honestly, I knew nothing about the 14.1 event until mid october.

As a player, I am always looking for ways to keep my expenses down. Gas is $3.21 a gallon - that sucks when you have to drive 800 miles to an event - then drive back. I compared that to flying there - not much difference in price.

I won't pay $80 - $100 a night for a room, no matter what deal the promoter gets with the hotel. I will always try to find the best bargain for a room on the internet while planning my trip. One time I paid $35 a night for a room at the Ramada in Hollywood, Florida - only because I know how to hunt for those kinds of bargains. If at all possible, I will stay with a friend that lives in the area to cut out the hotel costs. If I hear that I will be penalized with a higher entry fee for trying to keep my costs down - big red flag. Like I said, I hope that was just a rumor. That rumor was not what led to me not attending your event - it was a scheduling issue. The rumor just raised my eyebrows. Please clarify that for me here or in private.
I think your biggest issue was timing. Having an event just prior to the holidays - only to have DCC scheduled immediately after the holidays - that's asking a bit too much, but you live and you learn.

I think that the perfect time to have scheduled this event would have been immediately after or before the World 10 Ball event (in May). You would have attracted a lot of the players - including a lot of Filippinos. I believe if you strategically plan the next event immediately before or immediately after that or the US Open, you will attract a lot more business. By the time your event started, the WPC was going strong - and I believe that people/fans were focused on that more than anything else.

I am glad that we have you out there promoting these events. I will definitely leave my schedule open for next year to attend as a player or purchase booth space as a vendor. Keep us posted, and best of luck to you.
Click to expand...

Regardless of where the players stay, they all pay the same entry fees.

However, If the players stayed at the Host Hotel AND book their rooms through the BCAPL system, then they are qualified for the bonus "Added" monies.

If the players stayed someplace else, or stayed at the Host Hotel but book their rooms through a Third Party such as Orbitz.com, then they do not qualify for the bonus "Added" monies.
 
off topic, sorry Mark, I'll make it up to you with a beer

jay helfert said:
You'll have to stand in line behind your buddy Greg, who has been chasing my scalp in Banks for years now. See you in Vegas Mr. Sullivan. Bring your cue!
Click to expand...

Just your scalp, right? Because if you're promising him hair with the scalp, someone ought to let him know you're shorting him on the bet! Or is that real purpose of your toupees...

:D
 
kevin s said:
Have you ever considered Atlanta, Ga for the location? Airline tickets are much cheaper to and from there and they have a huge population to support such an event. Also the demographics I read stated that Atlanta was a days(10 to 12 hours) drive for 75% of the entire population of the country. Where are some other cities that might work?
Click to expand...

I find that hard to believe considering the population in west coast cities (San Diego, L.A. San Francisco, etc. etc.) are all quite a bit farther than 10-12 hours drive from Hot-lanta.

That said it still might be a good spot. As blackjack mentioned, at 24 hours of driving, flying might be cheaper anyway making that point moot.
 
I dont think Reno would be bad but theres already events there. Its cheap to go to though.

Louisville is actually cheaper to fly into than most places.... Atlanta included. Atlanta used to be real reasonable but now it hs went up a bit.


IMO it really comes down to ONE factor ... okay maybe 2!
Time and Money --
Pool is an obsessive hobby that takes up a lot of time and money. Most of us don't have enough vacation time to dedicate time off to each hobby we have every year. We still want to take other vacations or travel to see family.

While it maybe true that most top players dont have a job and are free to travel its also true that they make up a very small portion of the pool community.

I like trying to do something for BCAL players but thats already being done and being done well.

Do we really need a US Open 10 ball Championship???

I love one pocket but it will never bring a crowd. It will bring diehards and grinders. Why did it leave Kalamazoo?? I do think a US Open in this skill is needed. Its an american game!

Mark have you ever thought of trying several smaller events around the country. Combine a 8-16 player Pro Level event with some BCAL events but scatter them around the country. Also play the Pro event on the bar tables. Maybe 2 Pro ones ---both 8 and 9.
IMO it would do much more for the sponsors than the current schemes.
Diamond and the BCAL is the target sponsor and this would be more beneficial to those.

IMO teaming with a casino chain would be the way to go. They are everywhere now. That might help with some of the planning as more events would mean more details. However an extra sponsor like this might help with some costs.

Thanks for promoting the game.
 
Hi Mark. I would have to agree with some of the posters above:

1. length of event
2. location/hotel expenses - countless other events just around the corner
3. timing
4. the fact that this is a new event - less people take the chance to attend until they can feel out the event - hear the hype
5. event coverage - although the event was posted everywhere, the details were confusing for some and then ultimately the follow through with results was not complete - for instance, the final few events still do not have results posted on your site - who won??? people want to see their names in lights :)

As far as promotion goes, anyone that wants to promote the sport is high in my book. I love this game and want to see it grow. I do wish you the best as you are making an effort, not just talking about it. The fact that you are asking for input is wonderful and hopefully it will help you to create a great event next year.
 
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