Racking At The "Stone" A Joke

Your right,

CJ Wiley said:
Chris Bartrom breaks pretty good, and he does it without rack manipulation.

So does Francisco Bustemante, Earl Strickland, and many of the international players.

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Your right, I'm sure that there are a handful of guys that can really break on the world class level, I was just saying that the numbers are small, especially compared to the number of world class players over all, so the break is not as dominate as its made out to be.

Most of the guys that I match up with have laughable breaks, my break is far better than 90% of the guys that I play against, but my winning % sure isn't 90%.

Earl and Busty have great breaks, Chris B is a very respected guy with AAA reputation in gambling and a big break, but theses great players are among the few that can claim a really great break.

There was a guy you used to play at your place in Dallas that had a big break to, but he never beat you!
 
Here's a story of how Wade and I teamed up and offered the world the "last 2".

King T said:
Your right, I'm sure that there are a handful of guys that can really break on the world class level, I was just saying that the numbers are small, especially compared to the number of world class players over all, so the break is not as dominate as its made out to be.

Most of the guys that I match up with have laughable breaks, my break is far better than 90% of the guys that I play against, but my winning % sure isn't 90%.

Earl and Busty have great breaks, Chris B is a very respected guy with AAA reputation in gambling and a big break, but theses great players are among the few that can claim a really great break.

There was a guy you used to play at your place in Dallas that had a big break to, but he never beat you!
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You must be speaking of my friend and mentor Wade "Billy Johnson" Crane.

Here's a story of how Wade and I teamed up and offered the world the "last 2".

The Stage Was Set - The tournament was in Anniston, Alabama. and it was a huge bar table tournament. All the greatest players were there, and I was with Weldon Rogers, "Billy Johnson", Berle, and a group from Kentucky. Reid Pierce and I had recently played in Atlanta and I ended up giving him the 8 on a bar table and managed to win - it took like 3 straight days.

Weldon told me he wanted me to play David Matlock (the world's greatest bar table player) and have Billy Johnson break for me, so we matched up a 10 ahead for $10,000. "Billy" (Wade Crane) had only been playing on big tables the last few months and couldn't get the break working. I played flawlessly and got 8 ahead, then Matlock put an "8 Pack" together and we were even, then 1 down.....down 2....and counting.

I was sitting next to "Billy," he leaned in close to my ear and whispered "I just figured the break out....we're going to beat him 30 ahead if he doesn't quit!" I looked up at him and could instantly see, he was calm, yet his eyes were blazing - he was DEADLY SERIOUS! I suddenly knew what was coming, I'd seen that look in Billy's eyes before. :thumbup:

Sure enough, all of a sudden I won a game and BILLY BROKE>BAMMMM!!! The cue ball hit the one and went straight up in the air while 4 balls fought to get in the pockets - the cue ball came down {still bouncing} PARKED at the center of the table. Billy said in that "low tone" as he walked back to the chair "I over amped on that one," glanced at me with a smirk on his face, and winked. I knew what was fixin to happen.

We put on a devastating "One/Two Punch Clinic" from there on out and won the 10 ahead in the next hour. He was right, we would have put "30 Ahead" on anyone from that point on. Weldon got up and offered anyone at the tournament the "Last 2" if they wanted to play us, everyone politely declined.
'The Game is the Teacher' www.cjwiley.com
 
The #1 reason for all this rack checking is because of Corey D and Joe T. Not too many years ago there were only a hand full of players that knew these little tricks. Many knew how to rack to make the nine ball.

#2 The reason in my opinion why it's so hard to get a tight rack is the fast cloth they have on most tournament tables and in most players rooms today. There no nap to hold the balls in place. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
The #1 reason for all this rack checking is because of Corey D and Joe T. Not too many years ago there were only a hand full of players that knew these little tricks. Many knew how to rack to make the nine ball.

#2 The reason in my opinion why it's so hard to get a tight rack is the fast cloth they have on most tournament tables and in most players rooms today. There no nap to hold the balls in place. Johnnyt
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I thought most of the time you could "train the table" so that this wasn't as much of an issue even on the 860 HR cloth.
 
Johnnyt said:
The #1 reason for all this rack checking is because of Corey D and Joe T. Not too many years ago there were only a hand full of players that knew these little tricks. Many knew how to rack to make the nine ball.

#2 The reason in my opinion why it's so hard to get a tight rack is the fast cloth they have on most tournament tables and in most players rooms today. There no nap to hold the balls in place. Johnnyt
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Anyone say anything about these new black diamond wood racks being the cause of the rack disputes. It seems it's more than usual this turning stone. Are they made out of a different type of wood since the factory fire which produced the dark brown diamond wood racks?

Regardless, Zuglan is pacing the over two hour matches and shaking his head.
 
Looking back they were trying to maintain the game's integrity

Floppage said:
I thought most of the time you could "train the table" so that this wasn't as much of an issue even on the 860 HR cloth.
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You can, and that's what we used to do, "tap" them into place. This stuff was handled by the more experience players of my time, like Sigel, Strickland, Varner, Hopkins, Mizerak, etc. - they would have NEVER allowed this behavior, and if they told you not to do something, you better not do it......or there would be consequences.

Looking back they were trying to maintain the game's integrity. Now that they're gone there's no one to take their place......and the game has suffered accordingly.
 
Cardigan Kid said:
Zuglan is pacing the over two hour matches and shaking his head.
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Mike has run hundreds of tournaments. He has a long history in the game. He is experienced. One can only assume that this is what he likes and what he wants for his events and that he has got good reasons for it. Mike Z, Mark G, Barry B, Jay H etc. are pro event industry leaders and have been for a long time. They own this racking and breaking issue. I am not making a joke. There is no sarcasm or animosity meant here, only interest and concern.
 
King T said:
I think that the racking argument is a totally American player thing, like most of he 9 Ball issues. I just came back form Japan and I watched tournaments and money matches everyday, no racking conflicts.



I didn't get to see any matching up when I was in Germany last year, but the tournaments I went to didn't have any of this racking BS going on either.



One foul hasn't messed up 9 Ball, the American players have. Everywhere else the players are playing by the same rules we are and mastering the game, the focus on running out and playing the game at the highest level, not tricks and gimmicks.
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I attended the Turning Stone event in September and it took almost 20 minutes for the rack to be accepted in a match between Thorsten and Immonem, so it isn't an American thing. I imagined how this would have looked in a televised event.


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Option A:
It will be interesting to see if Mike Dechaine has the same issue with Rodney's racking.

Option B:
It will be interesting to see if Rodney tries his same loose racking with Mike.

Both options provided to guarantee everyone has at least some issue with this post. Please choose the option that least suits you. :p
 
At the Ultimate 10 Ball Championship in Frisco they had refs at EVERY table

All video's matches should have a referee racking, and the players shouldn't be allowed to look at them before breaking. Not having a referee these days came off as suspicious to me, it's easy to get someone with knowledge to rack.

At the Ultimate 10 Ball Championship in Frisco Tx. they had refs at EVERY table. The event went very smoothly and Mike Dechaine won over Jeremy Jones in the finals.

Someone will have to become solution oriented or the integrity of the game will drop even lower. The solution is simple.....DO NOT let the players rack, or look at the rack. The referees, in this situation would be more like dealers at a poker game. The players will trust the ref. because they trust the judgement of the promoter of the Event.



BigBoof said:
I attended the Turning Stone event in September and it took almost 20 minutes for the rack to be accepted in a match between Thorsten and Immonem, so it isn't an American thing. I imagined how this would have looked in a televised event.


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itsfroze said:
Missed the match what happened, besides Rodney winning,
did they have any problems with the racking ?
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:thumbup:


No problems racking but Mike had problems breaking.....

He couldn't keep the cueball out of the pocket.


Probably needs a different cue for breaking.

Hate the black ferrule on his playing cue too....


:wink:
 
Johnnyt said:
It takes the players more time to rack the balls than playing 25% of the games. This really hurts a great tournament for the fans. Get the MR. MR is far from the answer, but much better than this JOKE. Johnnyt
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Every tournament should have 4 gals working the floor/rackin', deal with it :thumbup:
 
CJ Wiley said:
I agree, Chris, what would you do if you could just "snap your fingers" and make changes today at TURNING STONE? Within reason of course. ;)
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I would have a rack man rack the balls. Players can't check the rack. They get what they get. And if the response is, "Well what if the rack man is in collusion with a player?" you have the answer to why pro pool does not go anywhere.

Bob
 
poolguy4u said:
:thumbup:


No problems racking but Mike had problems breaking.....

He couldn't keep the cueball out of the pocket.


Probably needs a different cue for breaking.

Hate the black ferrule on his playing cue too....


:wink:
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Someone commented a while back that he dont like the OB wood look so he color's it with a black sharpie. Dont know if that 100% true.
 
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