I think the powers were waiting to see if the raffles stayed on the up and up. The deception and fraud in The Kings raffle might sway them to end them all.
Raffles
- Thread starter ribdoner
- Start date
To all may be concerned, I have received a number of PM's from King since my first post in this thread. He has acussed me of being Hangemhigh, and many of other things which simple are not true.
In my initial post to this thread I identified a situation that did occur as I stated. I was told in no uncertain terms that due to Kevin Varney's wishes I would not be allowed to participate in the auction of one of his cues by King.
However, no where in my intial post did I say the cue was being Raffled for Kevin Varney, only that upon his request he did not want me involved. I think this issue was miscontruded, and some posters have come to the wrong conclusion about that fact.
It is true that my money was returned, and it true that I was told that I could not participate. However, it appears that the cue Raffled did belong to King.
I did not in the beginining want to attack King, my only comments were that, for these Raffles to be fair anyone should be able to participate. That was the only point I was trying to make.
Hope this clears things up!!!!! If not please read my first post again.
In my initial post to this thread I identified a situation that did occur as I stated. I was told in no uncertain terms that due to Kevin Varney's wishes I would not be allowed to participate in the auction of one of his cues by King.
However, no where in my intial post did I say the cue was being Raffled for Kevin Varney, only that upon his request he did not want me involved. I think this issue was miscontruded, and some posters have come to the wrong conclusion about that fact.
It is true that my money was returned, and it true that I was told that I could not participate. However, it appears that the cue Raffled did belong to King.
I did not in the beginining want to attack King, my only comments were that, for these Raffles to be fair anyone should be able to participate. That was the only point I was trying to make.
Hope this clears things up!!!!! If not please read my first post again.
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Exactly. I really really dont like the raffles, but if they are to stay around, then nothing like this should happen or be tolerated.manwon said:
No one is confused. The Kings raffle was controlled by Varney. He admitted this fact. Varney had a spot in the raffle. This is where the fraud comes into play. The deception rears it's ugly head when he also admitted he did these things with Varney guiding him before the raffle was complete.
ribdoner said:FWIW I think KING made the WRONG decision and, if given a mulligan, wouldn't make the same mistake.
I totally agree Adam!!!! I also do not think King is a bad guy, I only think he had a hard decision to make and did not know which way to turn. No one is perfect, we all do things we wish we could change, however, to me this is water under the bridge.
Have a good night Adam.
Here is my last post on this.
He is lucky Varney didn't win his own raffle.
He is lucky Varney didn't win his own raffle.
ribdoner said:
So, who are the decision makers? Why haven't they responded to queries about raffle?
Regards,
Duc.
OK, i know i'm hijacking here and I apologize, but didnt want to ask this in its own thread for fear of WWIII. I've realized alot of Varney cues for sale on this forum in the past few months, and alot of them seem to only be used for 3-6 months or less before being sold. Is it because he has so many cues on the market, do alot of people not like the way they hit or are there enough people in the market for his cues that it makes sense to sell one if you have it? Once again, sorry for hijacking, but just trying to save the rest of the forum from the mushroom cloud.
beav99_4life said:
Please read this entire thread:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=101895
I think this will explain the question you have asked, I suspect that people are now seeing Kevin for what he really is.
Have a good night!!
putting rep in perspective
Duc,
Please put bad rep in perspective and the raffles. Bad rep is for the post, not the poster. The forum specifies that bad rep is for a post we disapprove of. Not a post that is evil, dishonest, illegal or whatever, just one we disapprove of. Think for a second and you will realize that every off topic poster on the main forum can make exactly the same claims you are making why their post should be there. I am one of the members that gave your post bad rep for the simple reason it didn't belong on the main forum. I didn't give you bad rep, I gave the post bad rep.
The raffles are illegal in many states including mine, perhaps across the USA, I'm not certain about that. If they are illegal in Arizona I believe that having them is risking repercussions for Mike and AZB. I am strongly against having them on the main forum for all of the reasons mentioned above plus the simple fact that there is a specific forum for cue sales which if raffles are to be considered legitimate sales that is where they belong. I don't want to see a flood of raffles on the main forum. I do agree with you that the cues for sale posts don't belong there either. Hopefully the moderators will take care of that situation also but cues for sale are no danger to shut down the site. Private raffles may well be. I am pretty sure that they violate federal law.
I have given out negative rep in the past for posts I disapprove of and will be doing it more in the future. That doesn't mean that I disapprove of the poster or consider them an enemy. It means that I disapprove of the post just as the note says when you click on negative rep. If you can still check my note sent with the red rep you will see that I made plain that the post was what I objected to, I said nothing negative about you.
Hu
Duc,
Please put bad rep in perspective and the raffles. Bad rep is for the post, not the poster. The forum specifies that bad rep is for a post we disapprove of. Not a post that is evil, dishonest, illegal or whatever, just one we disapprove of. Think for a second and you will realize that every off topic poster on the main forum can make exactly the same claims you are making why their post should be there. I am one of the members that gave your post bad rep for the simple reason it didn't belong on the main forum. I didn't give you bad rep, I gave the post bad rep.
The raffles are illegal in many states including mine, perhaps across the USA, I'm not certain about that. If they are illegal in Arizona I believe that having them is risking repercussions for Mike and AZB. I am strongly against having them on the main forum for all of the reasons mentioned above plus the simple fact that there is a specific forum for cue sales which if raffles are to be considered legitimate sales that is where they belong. I don't want to see a flood of raffles on the main forum. I do agree with you that the cues for sale posts don't belong there either. Hopefully the moderators will take care of that situation also but cues for sale are no danger to shut down the site. Private raffles may well be. I am pretty sure that they violate federal law.
I have given out negative rep in the past for posts I disapprove of and will be doing it more in the future. That doesn't mean that I disapprove of the poster or consider them an enemy. It means that I disapprove of the post just as the note says when you click on negative rep. If you can still check my note sent with the red rep you will see that I made plain that the post was what I objected to, I said nothing negative about you.
Hu
Cuemaster98 said:OK Guys, I guess I deserve the bad Reps for posting information of my raffle on the Main Forum because many believe that I am setting precedent if it goes uncheck and I would be the one the start the pollution of raffles in the Main Forum!
Ironically, I think the main forum is the right place for Raffle...more viewers who might not want to pay retail prices on the for sales area may actually be interested in a shot for a cue at $15.00,etc. The concept of raffle should be on both forum area in my opinion. Raffle are supposed to be marketed in places where their are higher viewerships. It worked for my raffle and bought over the people who might not have seen it in the for sale area. I got the guys need to get my auction going...down to 1 stop.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=101621
GET THE LAST SPOT NOW!! #1 could be it!
Some can say I'm abusing the board, but I feel I'm just utilizing the forum they way I think it can be used. Hey, the guy on the main forum who bought the raffle will be thanking me if he win
So, what I can't grasp and maybe you guys can help. What are the problem with posting raffle information again in the main forum?? why is it a problem? I can understand the main issue with clotting the boards,etc,etc,but where are the rules that said raffle should be kept in the for sales area??? Why can't it be post in the Main Forum? I've posted in both area in the past for items that's for sales before and had no problem...I guess no one notice so it must have been ok. All of the sudden, we have people objecting to the fact that you can't post information on both the for sales and main forum...especially raffle!
Please give me Red Rep or Greenie, either way...doesn't matter to me anymore as I lost faith in how this reputation thing works. All of sudden, a bunch of guys decided that they are just in giving someone Red Rep because they feel strongly that they are correct in their judgement. Did I steal something, wronged someone in posting info on the main forum? If bad rep is used to justified a few or many opinions on what is deemed right or wrong...than more powerful to you but it now does not tells me if the person on here is honest or just had many disagree with his prespective...not mention if he has lots of friends that love to give Greenie!
If posting raffle in the Main Forum is bad form to you, I apoligized to those that are deeply hurt by my action. But again, my opinion is that I don't have any issue with anyone posting Raffle in the main forum, for sales area, or any other area why not?? If it doesn't work...people will just ignore it. Like my raffle information on the main forum...if it clogs the forum...than it should really be there...that where the action is.
Have fun people...these forums after all is entertainment for us all in some form and I can see how some can be protective of their interest. So, all in all, bring on the rep!!!
Regards,
Duc.
Cuemaster98 said:
For the same reason it is frowned on putting something that's for sale, wanted, or not pool-related in the main forum. Forums generally begin with a main section and then others get carved out or added as needed, warranted, or wished so by the site members. When misplaced posts start coming back to roost, it can ruffle people's feathers and rub them the wrong way....
ShootingArts said:
Thanks Hu,
From the way it has been used in the for sales area, it seem to be used for posters that have wronged someone and not because they posted something that was not suppose to be there or in-appropriate. I guess Rep are useless to me than..so rep away!! I would probably be interested in who has done the most deals on AZ and probably should be more important to buyers. It's seem like the rep system on here has it's own politics that I'm not too interested in. Looking at the Rep leaders...and seeing that most don't have many transactions and the leader with zero transaction explains to me a clearer what reps are. Just my opinion but reps seem to be more of a pissing contest than anything else. The longer you're here, the more power to you. Can the moderator setup a leader boards for Itrader?? Probably more important than reps in my opinion. I guess rep war do occurs here...what happen if I decided to give red reps to those that give me red rep?? I guess those with lots of rep will win out eventually. LOL.
Regards,
Duc.
Regards,
Duc.
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Duc,
If you are really behind doing raffles, then how about you taking your domain space for the website that you created for auctions and build a cue raffle website. I really think that would be a great solution. You could make some money renting space for the raffles or even take a cut. I would fully support that endeavor and even kick in $100 towards your bail if the Feds come knocking for you having an internet gambling site.. I checked the federal laws yep, the Feds consider raffles gambling and they have a whole new perspective on interstate use of the internet for websites that host gambling online. You could be the first test case to see if they will look the other way and ignore it. If it is okay here, surely it is okay for you to do on your own. I say prove to us just how okay it is and start that cueraffle.com site. Actions speak louder than words. Show us just how behind it you really are. I extend that challenge to anyone out there that thinks raffles are okay for AZB.
INTERNET GAMBLING/WAGERING
Internet gambling is expressly prohibited by Federal law. This falls under 31 U.S.C.A. ?5361, Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act.
From the State of Washington:
Lottery and raffle tickets
Lottery tickets must only be purchased from
licensees of the Washington State Lottery
Commission. Citizens of other states should check
with their local lottery regulatory agency.
Additionally, Internet raffle and lottery activities are
prohibited by the Federal Wire Wager Act.
Any site supporting advertising can be charged as well as if they are running the games. That is in the Act. You guys don't get it. You don't mess with the Feds.
If you are really behind doing raffles, then how about you taking your domain space for the website that you created for auctions and build a cue raffle website. I really think that would be a great solution. You could make some money renting space for the raffles or even take a cut. I would fully support that endeavor and even kick in $100 towards your bail if the Feds come knocking for you having an internet gambling site.. I checked the federal laws yep, the Feds consider raffles gambling and they have a whole new perspective on interstate use of the internet for websites that host gambling online. You could be the first test case to see if they will look the other way and ignore it. If it is okay here, surely it is okay for you to do on your own. I say prove to us just how okay it is and start that cueraffle.com site. Actions speak louder than words. Show us just how behind it you really are. I extend that challenge to anyone out there that thinks raffles are okay for AZB.
INTERNET GAMBLING/WAGERING
Internet gambling is expressly prohibited by Federal law. This falls under 31 U.S.C.A. ?5361, Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act.
From the State of Washington:
Lottery and raffle tickets
Lottery tickets must only be purchased from
licensees of the Washington State Lottery
Commission. Citizens of other states should check
with their local lottery regulatory agency.
Additionally, Internet raffle and lottery activities are
prohibited by the Federal Wire Wager Act.
Any site supporting advertising can be charged as well as if they are running the games. That is in the Act. You guys don't get it. You don't mess with the Feds.
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Rep is often used wrongly
Duc,
Rep is often used differently than the software developers intended I believe. Off to work now but when I have time to write it all out I intend to start a thread about rep, hopefully including a poll and trying to steer rep back to what I think it was intended to be, something of a self-governing device for forums.
I haven't had time to look at your edits yet but thanks for them!
Hu
Duc,
Rep is often used differently than the software developers intended I believe. Off to work now but when I have time to write it all out I intend to start a thread about rep, hopefully including a poll and trying to steer rep back to what I think it was intended to be, something of a self-governing device for forums.
I haven't had time to look at your edits yet but thanks for them!
Hu
Cuemaster98 said:
cueaddicts said:
Hi Sean,
If this is true..than why the heck are you guys posting discussion topics like "raffle" in the for sales area? Should I be bad rep all of you that have started and posted in the For sales area? Same logic as raffle take up posts in the for sales area.
Guys that have given me Red Reps, are all posting in a thread that is not relating to the for sales area? Where the justice in that. I posted on the main forum based on the same reason why guys that object to my post are doing on the for sales area....more attention and viewers.
Red reps to all then I guess.
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Cuemaster98 said:
Probably because there is so many raffle threads, multiple threads for the same cue being raffled, so many bumps, etc. People who are legitimately trying to sell something here are being bumped off the first page at a rate never seen before. Personally, I'm fine with the raffles, but they need their own space...it's too congested. Raffle-on brothers....that is, until the Feds come knockin !!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: the rep, don't sweat it......you 'da man !!!!!!!!!!!!