I'm gonna register that domain name then raffle it.classiccues said:
Raffles
- Thread starter ribdoner
- Start date
LMAO!!! :d :d :d
The King said:Wow I bet you said the same thing about black people too... They have no business telling us what to do ... Use the same bathrooms as us or doctors and dentists or even come in through the front door ... Excuse me but this really makes you look bad ....
I'm all for a raffle thread myself I get tired of seeing some of you cry about it all the time ... Though I'm sure many do appreciate the free press you are giving to raffles ... What scared me the most though is how loud will some of you cry when you see that the raffle threads get more action then the over priced wanted for sale section here ... I'm sure rafflers would love to get away from the the fussing and fighting ... How some are accusing other cue makers of selling cues that are nothing more then 8 dollar house stick conversions ... Of possibly buying house stick conversions at high inflated prices ... I'm sure many are tired of long waits and going ignored or even getting cussed out when they ask about a cue that they ordered years ago ... Or paying for something that they never recieve ... I have heard several of these complaints here but the worst complaint I have heard about raffles is that they bump the wanted for sale items down to fast ... Now there are some that want you to believe worst but to date no one has got ripped off or treated rudely in a raffle as they have before raffles came along
Heck the truth is that raffles are not killing the Wanted for Sale section heck some of the cue builders are doing that all by themselves .... Raffles are just a reason or something to point a finger at... Yes thier are many very good cue makers on here I have found several ... Jimmy Lee , Leon Sly , Joe Baker and Brent Hartwell are a few that I have dealt with and would recommend to anyone ... Eddie Wheat , Joey and Masonh I have talked to via this board or phone and would recommend and I know there are many more ...But it only takes a couple to do bad or wrong to a customer and it spreads more then the good work of a 1000 cue makers ... Now you may not like this post but it is the truth and well that is all I have to say about that ...
Life is like a box of Chocalates you never know what your gonna get till you look inside ... According to some of the aguements on the boards of late that seems to be true of some of the cues being built and sent out here on AZ of late ...
Wow I bet you said the same thing about black people too... They have no business telling us what to do ... Use the same bathrooms as us or doctors and dentists or even come in through the front door ... Excuse me but this really makes you look bad ....
I'm all for a raffle thread myself I get tired of seeing some of you cry about it all the time ... Though I'm sure many do appreciate the free press you are giving to raffles ..
I have been positive about the Raffles form the start, but your comments above are way out of line.
I have said that Raffles are a great thing for some one who may not be able to afford a cue in that price range any other way. I have also said that I as long as they were run honestly I saw nothing at all wrong with it.
But, then I tried to join into one of your Raffles. My money was paid, and it was paid well in advance to ensure my place in your raffle. The next thing I know I received an email from you telling me that you want to refund my money. Turns out that even though I requested a spot in the auction before others you allowed in I was not given a chance to win the cue in Question. After questioning you I find out that at Mr. Varneys request I was banned from the Raffles of his cues, and that you were going to support his wishes. I was going to leave it at that until you started making comments in another thread, about the how you are tired of the Drama between me and Kevin Varney. I apologized to you if you were offended, but it seems that there was more there than meets the eye with your statements.
The cue that was being Raffled was a Varney cue, and yes that is why I asked for a spot in the Raffle. However, I am a member of this forum and I do not think you or anyone has the right to not give some one a chance at a cue being Raffled for any reason other than non-payment of funds.
I think if a cue is up for Raffle, any member should be included. This has been bothering me for awhile and I needed to get it off my chest. My advise to you and anyone else who is involved with Raffling cues, if your Raffles are not open to everyone and anyone on a Public Forum you are asking for trouble. Once the Raffle starts it should go through until completion, if some one is afraid that some one may win one of their cues it should not be raffled in the first place.
When I jumped on that Raffle I was testing the water, and I must say I expected what happened to happen. But it is not right, and if I were you I would not be a part things like that in the future, it is certainly Bad for Business.
Just My thoughts!!!!
Last edited:
LOL...I was told you were trouble ...
Ok Craig I was told you were trouble and I guess this is your chance to jump. As I told you I have no problem with you and I told you the reason I did what I did ... If you can't accept that then it is on you but I will not argue with you ...
Kevin Varney saw your post and that you wanted a spot as the list was about to fill up and pm'd me not to sell the cue to you for several reasons ... The most valid to me was he was afraid you would try to cut it open to see what was inside of it or steal any secrets he did not want you to know about. I'm niether for or against him or you the way I see it your just as bad as what you make him out to be with the way you hound him and follow him around waiting like a snake in the grass to jump on someone anyone when you think the time is right... I was caught in the middle and did what I would do for any cue maker ... And I will do it over and over again ... either way I would catch heck but at least now I get it from a trouble maker like you knowing I did the right thing in my mind ...
I figured he made the cue if he is in fear of someone who has been stalking him then he has the right to make that request. As I told you I would of done this for any cue maker you included if you felt someone was out to harm or damage your work .You said you understood and were ok with it and you would do the same thing in this situation yourself that you did not blame me one bit .. I guess you lied...And you certainly are stalking the man rather for good reason or bad I am not the judge of ... Further more I had several PM's wanting a spot in that raffle and you wanted in right at the end not well in advance ... Did it ever occur to you that all spots may of been filled just not posted up yet... You were never listed on the list you never had a spot I may of listed you as a alternate just to keep you from crying ...Not that it matters I would of did what I did either way and will gladly do so again to protect a cue maker .... I never confirmed you had a spot and did not even have you on the final list ... But instead you chose to try to strong arm me and send in your money anyway ...trying to force me into giving you someones spot or a spot ...I got the cue in trade from ZCAT27 for my Darrin Hill cue ... Kevin Varney had nothing to do with this at all other then I was trying to protect a cuemaker who was scared someone was out to cause him harm. I would do this for any cue maker ... He did not own this cue and it certainly was not his deal... As you seem to want to imply .... You two have been at each other for a long time and you tried to drag me into the middle of it I did not appreciate it and I resent you for it I have never done anything to you, and I knew once you did it that this was a no win situation for me I was not going to make either of you happy ... I was not about to get into the middle of it as it is none of my business and I do not know either of you ....
I guess Jealousy is something that can be a driving force... I had issued you a refund and will always do that again to protect any cue maker not just Varney ... As I said I would of done the same for you .. I knew you being you that you would post this and twist it a little to suit you ... but that is fine I have done nothing wrong and stand on my record and deals I have made since being a member of this forum... And to tell the truth I would probably trust and play with a Varney before I used anything or believed a word you told me or took any of your advise ... Grow up Craig .... I'm neither for or against either of you ...
I get tired of reading the lame threads and you acting like no one has sense enough to think for themselves.... I try to get along with everyone but some people you can't ... You seem to be one of them always looking for a arguement from someone ...anyone ... I'm not the first one to point this out .... And I don't need any of your advise, to tell the truth it looks as if you need alot of advise yourself... You seem to be on a mission to run AZ 'ers off the forum or get them to quit giving out helpful info here on the forum like you did the other day in the main section of the forum....In fact you have done a heck of a lot of damage here on AZ all in the name of trying to look out for the poor AZ'ers that don't know any better ... Do us a favor let us be the judge of that for ourselves on a individual basis ....I won't be your next victim...
Craig Karma is a powerful thing sooner or later it is going to come around and bite you ... This is all I have to say to you .. I will not be like you and say I'm out of here with nothing further to say and keep coming back putting in my two cents ... I'll be the bigger man and walk away from this as it is obvious some AZ'ers are right your pure trouble ... So Craig grow up and get over it and quit pouting because I would not be a part of you ruining someones reputation ..AZ'ers are smart enough to figure things out on thier own ...
As you say Have a good night Sir ...
Ok Craig I was told you were trouble and I guess this is your chance to jump. As I told you I have no problem with you and I told you the reason I did what I did ... If you can't accept that then it is on you but I will not argue with you ...
Kevin Varney saw your post and that you wanted a spot as the list was about to fill up and pm'd me not to sell the cue to you for several reasons ... The most valid to me was he was afraid you would try to cut it open to see what was inside of it or steal any secrets he did not want you to know about. I'm niether for or against him or you the way I see it your just as bad as what you make him out to be with the way you hound him and follow him around waiting like a snake in the grass to jump on someone anyone when you think the time is right... I was caught in the middle and did what I would do for any cue maker ... And I will do it over and over again ... either way I would catch heck but at least now I get it from a trouble maker like you knowing I did the right thing in my mind ...
I figured he made the cue if he is in fear of someone who has been stalking him then he has the right to make that request. As I told you I would of done this for any cue maker you included if you felt someone was out to harm or damage your work .You said you understood and were ok with it and you would do the same thing in this situation yourself that you did not blame me one bit .. I guess you lied...And you certainly are stalking the man rather for good reason or bad I am not the judge of ... Further more I had several PM's wanting a spot in that raffle and you wanted in right at the end not well in advance ... Did it ever occur to you that all spots may of been filled just not posted up yet... You were never listed on the list you never had a spot I may of listed you as a alternate just to keep you from crying ...Not that it matters I would of did what I did either way and will gladly do so again to protect a cue maker .... I never confirmed you had a spot and did not even have you on the final list ... But instead you chose to try to strong arm me and send in your money anyway ...trying to force me into giving you someones spot or a spot ...I got the cue in trade from ZCAT27 for my Darrin Hill cue ... Kevin Varney had nothing to do with this at all other then I was trying to protect a cuemaker who was scared someone was out to cause him harm. I would do this for any cue maker ... He did not own this cue and it certainly was not his deal... As you seem to want to imply .... You two have been at each other for a long time and you tried to drag me into the middle of it I did not appreciate it and I resent you for it I have never done anything to you, and I knew once you did it that this was a no win situation for me I was not going to make either of you happy ... I was not about to get into the middle of it as it is none of my business and I do not know either of you ....
I guess Jealousy is something that can be a driving force... I had issued you a refund and will always do that again to protect any cue maker not just Varney ... As I said I would of done the same for you .. I knew you being you that you would post this and twist it a little to suit you ... but that is fine I have done nothing wrong and stand on my record and deals I have made since being a member of this forum... And to tell the truth I would probably trust and play with a Varney before I used anything or believed a word you told me or took any of your advise ... Grow up Craig .... I'm neither for or against either of you ...
I get tired of reading the lame threads and you acting like no one has sense enough to think for themselves.... I try to get along with everyone but some people you can't ... You seem to be one of them always looking for a arguement from someone ...anyone ... I'm not the first one to point this out .... And I don't need any of your advise, to tell the truth it looks as if you need alot of advise yourself... You seem to be on a mission to run AZ 'ers off the forum or get them to quit giving out helpful info here on the forum like you did the other day in the main section of the forum....In fact you have done a heck of a lot of damage here on AZ all in the name of trying to look out for the poor AZ'ers that don't know any better ... Do us a favor let us be the judge of that for ourselves on a individual basis ....I won't be your next victim...
Craig Karma is a powerful thing sooner or later it is going to come around and bite you ... This is all I have to say to you .. I will not be like you and say I'm out of here with nothing further to say and keep coming back putting in my two cents ... I'll be the bigger man and walk away from this as it is obvious some AZ'ers are right your pure trouble ... So Craig grow up and get over it and quit pouting because I would not be a part of you ruining someones reputation ..AZ'ers are smart enough to figure things out on thier own ...
As you say Have a good night Sir ...
Last edited:
WOW, I want my money back from that raffle. You should have disclosed the fact that Varney was the one raffleing the cue. I guess all the claims of fixing a raffle are true.
Funny
The boards are moving really slow these days.....on average the top post to the bottom post has a spread of about 2 hours( sometimes more )on the front page.....Back when things were moving it would average 30 minutes....I can see how the raffles would affect this fast pace forum...
..
The boards are moving really slow these days.....on average the top post to the bottom post has a spread of about 2 hours( sometimes more )on the front page.....Back when things were moving it would average 30 minutes....I can see how the raffles would affect this fast pace forum...
..
ridewiththewind said:
I said legitimate, not legal. I don't know what the legality is, but I doubt a few raffles will really get anyone in trouble. There's laws against lots of stupid stuff in lots of states, it doesn't mean much usually. People still give and receive oral sex, I'm assuming? Or when their partner is about to go down on them, do the anti-rafflers yell out "woah! no, no! read the state's legislative website! I'm no law-breaker!"
ridewiththewind said:
Missed my point.
The Main Forum and the Wanted/For Sale forum are the two most popular forums. Due to their popularity, they attract newbies. Like right now, the Main Forum as 231 viewing, the W/FS has 170, Cue Gallery has 106, NPR has 77, and it goes down from there, pretty sharply.
The Main Forum has 41,000 and something threads, W/FS has 27,000 plus, and nothing else is within 1/3 of that.
It's not that newbies won't see a "Raffle" forum, it's that newbies will naturally go to the most popular and active forums, and that's the Main Forum and Wanted/For Sale. They may stop by other forums, but without much action in them, they won't stay long.
Heck, even many regulars don't spend nearly as much time in other forums as they do in the big two. That's why people often post things in the main forum that begin "I know this belongs in XXX forum, but I wanted some quick responses."
Putting raffles in a separate forum before they are truly popular enough to stand on their own will drastically lower the casual traffic exposed to the raffles, and will effectively kill them off or greatly reduce their popularity. This will prevent people who like raffles from raffling their cues, and also people who might like participating in raffles from seeing them, as newbies are unlikely to stop by some random forum with 13 viewers for long if at all, and many regulars will not stop by nearly as often since there might be one new raffle a day.
I'm really surprised at all this opposition to raffles, and I honestly think very little of it has to do with actual reasons as much as people just seem to think it's a strange new gimmick of some kind and they just don't like it. Then they search for reasons. That's why when there's at most 6 raffles going these guys say stuff like "it pushes real sales down and off the front page!" or when one guy gets maybe 7% more than he would have in a straight sale they say stuff like "and they charge ridiculous markups, laughing all the way to the bank!!!"
No, people are just afraid of something new and innovative and are looking for reasons to justify their initial reaction. If you don't like raffles, fine. If they really were overrunning the W/FS section, then yes having a new forum would be plenty justified. But as of yet, they really aren't. Let people who like raffles do their raffles, and anyone who doesn't like them just focus on the 95+% of threads in this forum that are straight sales.
hangemhigh said:
This is funny... A cuemaker having to raffle his own cue? After this story I wouldn't trust either the cuemaker OR the raffler. It's a joke, the man pays his money and he gets to play. Do you think Balabushka gave a crap that Paradise might get one of his cues? And we ain't talking about a Balabushka, that is for sure. It's called integrity, you post a raffle, unless you post a statement saying certain people cannot play before hand, you need to honor it. In a microsecond this auction just showed what the world really knows about pool.
Both these clowns should get banned.
How about a new slogan, Buy a raffle for a Varney, then get beat for it..
JV
Rocket354 said:
The FS/WTB Forum is inundated with raffle posts and raffle post Bumps. I would not like to see raffle posts in the Main Forum, so when one was posted today by Cuemaster98, I gave it Red Rep.
Doug
(I think I'll give negative Rep to any/ALL raffle posts in the Main Forum) imo
classiccues said:
I agree fully. A full refund should be extended to all participants. We all acted in good faith and had no idea that someone else was controlling the raffle behind the scenes. I have no doubt that ther raffle would have never filled if this would have been made known before hand.
The King said:
Ok Craig I was told you were trouble and I guess this is your chance to jump. As I told you I have no problem with you and I told you the reason I did what I did ... If you can't accept that then it is on you but I will not argue with you ...
What little Bird told you that
It really matters not any way!!The purpose of my post was plain apparently except to you, Raffles must be open to everyone. I was not disrespectful to you in my post in any way, you say I am trouble, well I am sorry you feel that, but who is attacking who here, it is kinda like the Pot calling the Kettle Black.
Kevin Varney saw your post and that you wanted a spot as the list was about to fill up and pm'd me not to sell the cue to you for several reasons ... The most valid to me was he was afraid you would try to cut it open to see what was inside of it or steal any secrets he did not want you to know about. I'm niether for or against him or you the way I see it your just as bad as what you make him out to be with the way you hound him and follow him around waiting like a snake in the grass to jump on someone anyone when you think the time is right... I was caught in the middle and did what I would do for any cue maker ... And I will do it over and over again ... either way I would catch heck but at least now I get it from a trouble maker like you knowing I did the right thing in my mind ...
You say that I am as bad as Kevin, in one sentence, then you accuse me of stalking him and call me a Snake in the Grass. Continue to do it over and over again, do what ever you want to do that is your right. But, do not say that you are not on one side or the other because that is a false statement, by your own words you have taken sides, and that is very clear. I am very glad you have come out of the closet
I figured he made the cue if he is in fear of someone who has been stalking him then he has the right to make that request. As I told you I would of done this for any cue maker you included if you felt someone was out to harm or damage your work .You said you understood and were ok with it and you would do the same thing in this situation yourself that you did not blame me one bit .. I guess you lied...And you certainly are stalking the man rather for good reason or bad I am not the judge of ... Further more I had several PM's wanting a spot in that raffle and you wanted in right at the end not well in advance ... Did it ever occur to you that all spots may of been filled just not posted up yet... You were never listed on the list you never had a spot I may of listed you as a alternate just to keep you from crying ...Not that it matters I would of did what I did either way and will gladly do so again to protect a cue maker .... I never confirmed you had a spot and did not even have you on the final list ... But instead you chose to try to strong arm me and send in your money anyway ...trying to force me into giving you someones spot or a spot ...I got the cue in trade from ZCAT27 for my Darrin Hill cue ... Kevin Varney had nothing to do with this at all other then I was trying to protect a cuemaker who was scared someone was out to cause him harm. I would do this for any cue maker ... He did not own this cue and it certainly was not his deal... As you seem to want to imply .... You two have been at each other for a long time and you tried to drag me into the middle of it I did not appreciate it and I resent you for it I have never done anything to you, and I knew once you did it that this was a no win situation for me I was not going to make either of you happy ... I was not about to get into the middle of it as it is none of my business and I do not know either of you ....
I would have never brought this up, however, you kinda made it clear in another post clear how you felt and I quote ( The constant fued between Manwon and Varney grows old ... While it can be amusing a times it consumes thread after thread of the same old B.S. ... As do the anti raffle threads ... But hey at least we are here to experience all of this ) This is your opinion and you certainly have a right to it. However, you lumped it all together so I figured the entire story should be told. You fell for Kevin's insecure behavior, I did not, and do you remember the Pm you sent me
you even agreed that I was in before others or you were just placating me, so who lied here to day?I get tired of reading the lame threads and you acting like no one has sense enough to think for themselves.... I try to get along with everyone but some people you can't ... You seem to be one of them always looking for a arguement from someone ...anyone ... I'm not the first one to point this out .... And I don't need any of your advise, to tell the truth it looks as if you need alot of advise yourself... You seem to be on a mission to run AZ 'ers off the forum or get them to quit giving out helpful info here on the forum like you did the other day in the main section of the forum....In fact you have done a heck of a lot of damage here on AZ all in the name of trying to look out for the poor AZ'ers that don't know any better ... Do us a favor let us be the judge of that for ourselves on a individual basis ....I won't be your next victim...
Here again you are certainly welcome to your opinion, I know without you saying it you are speaking about Blackjack. However did you see where Blackjack apologized to me in the same thread, and he explained his anger was directed at others who were attacking his business on this forum. He went into further details in private PM, which is none of your business.
Craig Karma is a powerful thing sooner or later it is going to come around and bite you ... This is all I have to say to you .. I will not be like you and say I'm out of here with nothing further to say and keep coming back putting in my two cents ... I'll be the bigger man and walk away from this as it is obvious some AZ'ers are right your pure trouble ... So Craig grow up and get over it and quit pouting because I would not be a part of you ruining someones reputation ..AZ'ers are smart enough to figure things out on thier own ...
You are also right that Karma is certainly an angry women. You have throughout this post been very clear where you loyalties lie. But to say you have not taken sides that is a bold faced lie, and I am certain that you fit in well with those AZ members who feel I am nothing but trouble, this should certainly give you and Kevin Varney something to talk about.
Good luck with your Raffles because if you keep acting like this, and picking and chosing who can participate I am certain they will not be very successful.
I am sorry you feel the way you do, but, that is also your right.
Oh and by the way, Happy Fathers Days, and have a good night!!!!!!!
Last edited:
Varney had a slot in that raffle. He controled the raffle, so he participated in his own raffle. This fact should have been brought to light so the honest people that acted in good faith would have had a chance to decide if they still wanted in. It is obvious that Varney and whoever else was running the raffle knew this and did not want to take the chance of it not going off.
Yeah, this whole scenario is getting pretty disgusting. I've never liked the raffles and have always thought they were a bad idea. As for Manwon, if the story of you being denied a spot in a raffle is true, then I feel some kind of action needs to be taken. The raffles are in themselves illegal, and then someone has the nerve to run a raffle in an unethical manner on here. Just another reason raffles should be banned IMO.hangemhigh said:
What we need is really an Ebay listing for AZer with forum capability...the for sales area is already moving too fast anyway. I posted some raffle information in the main forum to help with my raffle..it worked but I got some bad reps for doing so...which I see now as well deserve but it still fair games as there are no rules in place to handle raffle. I think raffle should be in the main forum...more viewers..so more chance for success. Where in AZ rules did it state you can't post raffle details in the main forum? or raffle in the for sales area? Anyhow, I think everybody is right but the solution will not work in the existing structures because even without raffle....the for sales forum is moving too fast. My solution...Az need to build a hybrid site that will allow for forum interaction that can allow the poster to catergories their sales (Trade, Sell, Buy, Raffle, etc). Make the listing more accessible and allow AZer...to save/mark post that are of interest so that they can scan and leave stuff that don't interest them.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards,
Duc.
Just my 2 cents.
Regards,
Duc.
Cuemaster98 said:
An excellent idea... imo (if hybrid means NOT in the Main Forum)
Doug
snowmon34 said:Front page spread.....2 hours 30 minutes...we have to stop these raffles I can't keep up...
D,
Duc's JO raffle has been bumped/qued up (through no fault of his own) apprx. 20 times in the last 15 hours.
I'm pro-raffle because some of the proceeds will be pumped into cue purchases, but, what type of cluster hodown would we have if all our threads were bumped that aggressively?
The vast majority who have posted in this thread also support raffles having a home of their own.
The decision will be made by those in a position to do so.
Take care, A