Rating One Pocket Players

I like both Billy's and Grady's comments in the Accu-Stats videos I've seen. It seems that some of that good-natured ribbing has carried over out of the booth. Its difficult to quantify someone's precise skill based on who they've played over the years. Everyone has their strengths, be it knowledge, game management, moving, cueball control, sharpshooting, ball-running, etcetera. Any and all of that hard-to-quantify stuff makes up the caliber of a one pocket players game.

I don't even know you two guys, but I do respect your contributions to the game. I'd hope that this respect applies between you two as well?

If not, set up and record a one-pocket CELEBRITY GRUDGE-MATCH and sell the video online. Something like a 3 ahead game. Between inning sharking allowed! I'd buy it. It'd sell like crazy. ;)
 
Who said you weren't?

wincardona said:
Freddie,
I really don't want to go back and fourth with you and Grady, but for whatever it's worth i'll explain how it really was. In 1972 I was the best 9 ball player in the country,with the exception of Lassiter, Grady wouldn't of had a chance to beat me,and anyone that played back then knows it. I retired from pool 4 times ,each time i retired it was from 4 to 7 years. But I obviously made come backs ,during all that time Grady continued to play.I believe it was around 1981 that I started to play again,once again I really can't remember the exact years that I quit and then returned. keep in mind I was never a one pocket player back then I learned later in the mid to late 80's. after my first comeback I matched up with Grady 9/7 and broke even. Yes at that time he was playing excellent one pocket ,and I was still learning the game.In the early 90's 1993 or 1994 I played Grady even one pocket in Baltimore. He had just beat Bugs and asked me to play.And at that time I believed I was playing better than him so we played four out of seven for $2500 .He out ran the nuts and beat me the first set 4 to 3. Made a ball on his break,ratted in balls ramming the pack, missing balls and making another ball,it was frustrating for me, because I knew I was the better player. After he won the set he started to unscrew his cue ,I said what are you doing i'm not finished. We played another set and I won 4 to 0.Again he started to disjoint ,I asked him why he was quitting,his reply was that he had important things to do, and proceded to drive away. Strange how differently people think. If I were he, playing $2,500 a set would be pretty important to me. We played abot 3 times since then,even and I won every time. I'm not the kind of a person that brags on myself, i've always felt funny about that. The reason i'm telling this story is,i'm tired of Grady insulting,and devaluing me.And if he want's to play me some more all he has to do is show up at the Olympics in Louisville and we can settle this. And I preferr it to be on camera.
Click to expand...

Billy, I think you misread my post, I will reiterate. I agree, and have gone on record, that in 1972 you were the country's best 9ball player except for Lassiter (Who you asked for the 8 ball in front of me at the Stardust. He counter offered you 4 games on the wire going to 20 ahead for 20k, which you refused) That was certainly nothing to be ashamed about. In those days that was an official designation -- Who's the best 9baller in the country -- besides Wimpy? Similar situation today. Who's the best 1pkt player in the world -- besides Efren? I agree that Grady had no chance playing you 9ball then, but even you agree that you couldnt beat Grady in the 70s--early 80s playing 1pkt, so what is your point of contention? If you need a little ego stroking, it's only fair that I mention you were one of the few players who was never intimidated by whomever your opponent was. You usually always were able to play your regular game, even for giant money. In contrast, it's amazing how many great players (Hall of Famers included) fainted dead away when they played Ronnie or Bugs, or even Cornbread.
Please don't get mad at me, I want to keep the "bite" open.

the Beard
PS On my new blog I will be pontificating on the sociopathic, political, and philosophical views on pool, and the world in general. I am now adding a daily tip from the Old-time Hustler's Handbook. A gamemanship section to soon follow.
 
Last edited:
freddy the beard said:
Billy, I think you misread my post, I will reiterate. I agree, and have gone on record, that in 1972 you were the country's best 9ball player except for Lassiter (Who you asked for the 8 ball in front of me at the Stardust. He counter offered you 4 games on the wire going to 20 ahead for 20k, which you refused) That was certainly nothing to be ashamed about. In those days that was an official designation -- Who's the best 9baller in the country -- besides Wimpy? Similar situation today. Who's the best 1pkt player in the world -- besides Efren? I agree that Grady had no chance playing you 9ball then, but even you agree that you couldnt beat Grady in the 70s--early 80s playing 1pkt, so what is your point of contention? If you need a little ego stroking, it's only fair that I mention you were one of the few players who was never intimidated by whomever your opponent was. You usually always were able to play your regular game, even for giant money. In contrast, it's amazing how many great players (Hall of Famers included) fainted dead away when they played Ronnie or Bugs, or even Cornbread.
Please don't get mad at me, I want to keep the "bite" open.

the Beard
PS On my new blog I will be pontificating on the sociopathic, political, and philosophical views on pool, and the world in general. I am now adding a daily tip from the Old-time Hustler's Handbook. A gamemanship section to soon follow.
Click to expand...


WOW! 20 ahead for 20K. Adjusted for inflation in todays economy that's nearly $100,000. At first I read it thinking it was a race to 20 and I couldn't figure out why Billy wouldn't take that game when he wanted the 8 first. Then I read it again and realized it's a 20 ahead. Slight difference!
 
Every one knows Bill why Grady is pissed off. You were picked over him for the ESPN broadcast of the US Open. But thats like getting pissed off at your best friend if the girl picks you instead of him to go to the prom. Get pissed off at the girl. Lets face it Grady you might have more qualifications and seniority but they didnt want you. They wanted Billy.
By the way I saw Billy play Grady at the DCC. All Ill say is that Grady lost.

By the way Bill you normally are a snazzy dresser but for that ESPN airing your wardrobe choice was a little off. I know someone else must have made that decision. It took you a little out of your sporty element.
 
yobagua said:
Every one knows Bill why Grady is pissed off. You were picked over him for the ESPN broadcast of the US Open. But thats like getting pissed off at your best friend if the girl picks you instead of him to go to the prom. Get pissed off at the girl. Lets face it Grady you might have more qualifications and seniority but they didnt want you. They wanted Billy.
By the way I saw Billy play Grady at the DCC. All Ill say is that Grady lost.

By the way Bill you normally are a snazzy dresser but for that ESPN airing your wardrobe choice was a little off. I know someone else must have made that decision. It took you a little out of your sporty element.
Click to expand...


The way I heard it -- and I could be wrong -- is that at the U.S. Open, Grady Mathews was there providing commentary to the matches, along with Billy and others. Towards the end of the event, Grady was told that he would NOT be providing commentary, that, in fact, Mike Sigel has arrived and would be providing further commentary. This upset Grady who had thought he was going to be providing commentary, only to be told at the last minute that Sigel would take his place.

As far as dressing for commentary, I can remember one unnamed pool industry member who was totally pissed off that he was asked to change his suit to wear a logo-emblazoned shirt because he might be seen on camera. Meanwhile, this pool industry member ALWAYS dresses to the nines. Even though he was insulted a bit, he did wear the logo, and, I might add, with a smile!

JAM
 
no offense

I would love to see this match between Mr. Incardona and Mr. freddy on this term.


Race to 35

first 25 on 9 ball
last 10 on 1 pocket
50K/50K on each side on TV
Set up will be half point of their Location
Who ever wins gets the 100% rights and money for all publications and promotions offer which includes all commision of the match on DVD.
Lets not forget the bragging rights of course.
And to make it more exciting, winner takes the cue of the loser (no exception)
 
Last edited:
Just in case your wondering< I'm taking the high road in this argument. I have my own opinion but will choose not to voice it here and now.

If possible, all three of these esteemed players may be right to a certain extent. I do know there was a period in the 80's where Grady had to be one of the top One Pocket players, along with Ronnie and Jeff Carter and a couple of others. He was always one of the favorites in any One Pocket tournament back then. I played Grady in one of the Red's tournaments when I was playing good. I had won a couple of matches and yet I felt totally intimidated playing Grady, and he trounced me something like 4-1.

I'm not sure what happened to Grady in the 90's, when One Pocket tournaments became very popular again. Perhaps he was just too busy promoting his own events. Only he can answer that. And yes, Grady played high speed 9-Ball too in the 80's, which must be the prime of his career. As for Billy, he was essentuially a 9-Ball player until he got older. Then his One Pocket game took off. So he is not lying either.

I think this is just a matter of personal opinion, which obviously can have some prejudice thrown in. I think Billy is entitled to his opinion as well as Grady. It doesn't make either of them wrong, or right. I like Billy's lists, and yet I differ with him too. Whether Grady belongs on a list of all time One Pocket players is quite subjective.

Like I said, I will not offer my own personal opinion here. I will save that for another time and thread. Just a few observations for now.
 
DeadPoked said:
I've got my popcorn, this is getting good.

popcorn.jpg
Click to expand...

No, "Popcorn" played pretty good but he couldn't beat Billy or Grady, LOL.
 
A few random thoughts

If I do any more serious gambling it'll be in my new place. I don't mean to denigrate or insult anyone. The truth is though, that everybody knew I'd play anybody in the world even up One Pocket from say, 1980 to 1993. Now I'm not saying I would have won, just that I liked myself a lot playing anyone even. And EVERY time I played good or great then at One Pocket, I won, just that simple. I also went regularly to other player's home courts and defeated them.
To finish up with Billy, he's been an A-hole all of his life. He has won like 95% of the times he's gambled and he's not pleasant to play with, just ask Ike if you don't believe me.
In Baltimore, I was really tired, having played Bugs for 10 hours and Billy for another three but the biggest and only reason I quit that night was that, as always, family comes first and I needed the money.
Keith, Cole Dixon, Ritchie Florence, etc.,were much better action for anyone than the likes of a Cardone.
As for the past, look, I defeated Ronnie Allen, Bugs, Romburg, Artie, Parica, Efren, Eddie Taylor, Jersey Red, and a host of other greats, playing even up One hole. Can Billy say that he beat even one of the aforementioned giants playing even? Of course not!!! Give me a break. I won four World One Pocket titles and after every one of those the bank was open, if anybody wanted to play.
I will admit that in the nineties my game hasn't been what I would've liked. As I write these words I'm working hard on my game but I don't know that I'll regain the ability or confidence I once had. But if I do decide to do something with any Cardonelike opponent, meaning someone near my age, it'll have to be a 30 hour session. What's the point of keeping myself in shape if I don't try to use that to my advantage?
 
hemicudas said:
No, "Popcorn" played pretty good but he couldn't beat Billy or Grady, LOL.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are Popcorn varieties, meaning more than one.

I heard a tale of one Popcorn, many moons ago, taking a sock with pool balls in it and slamming some guy in his face because he was talking during the time when Popcorn was playing a heated match. :o

JAM
 
JAM said:
I'm sure there are Popcorn varieties, meaning more than one.

I heard a tale of one Popcorn, many moons ago, taking a sock with pool balls in it and slamming some guy in his face because he was talking during the time when Popcorn was playing a heated match. :o

JAM
Click to expand...

There will be a story about Popcorn in my book. Suffice to say, he had me "jumped" by three tough guys. I guess I'm lucky to be alive.
 
Grady said:
If I do any more serious gambling it'll be in my new place. I don't mean to denigrate or insult anyone. The truth is though, that everybody knew I'd play anybody in the world even up One Pocket from say, 1980 to 1993. Now I'm not saying I would have won, just that I liked myself a lot playing anyone even. And EVERY time I played good or great then at One Pocket, I won, just that simple. I also went regularly to other player's home courts and defeated them.
To finish up with Billy, he's been an A-hole all of his life. He has won like 95% of the times he's gambled and he's not pleasant to play with, just ask Ike if you don't believe me.
In Baltimore, I was really tired, having played Bugs for 10 hours and Billy for another three but the biggest and only reason I quit that night was that, as always, family comes first and I needed the money.
Keith, Cole Dixon, Ritchie Florence, etc.,were much better action for anyone than the likes of a Cardone.
As for the past, look, I defeated Ronnie Allen, Bugs, Romburg, Artie, Parica, Efren, Eddie Taylor, Jersey Red, and a host of other greats, playing even up One hole. Can Billy say that he beat even one of the aforementioned giants playing even? Of course not!!! Give me a break. I won four World One Pocket titles and after every one of those the bank was open, if anybody wanted to play.
I will admit that in the nineties my game hasn't been what I would've liked. As I write these words I'm working hard on my game but I don't know that I'll regain the ability or confidence I once had. But if I do decide to do something with any Cardonelike opponent, meaning someone near my age, it'll have to be a 30 hour session. What's the point of keeping myself in shape if I don't try to use that to my advantage?
Click to expand...

Grady, sometimes these forums can be like the old jingle, "My dog's bigger than your dog. My dog's bigger than yours. My dog's bigger 'cause...."

You are in the autumn of your life, and there is no way anybody can play pool at the same caliber in their sixties as they did when they were younger.

One thing for sure, nobody can ever take away those four one-pocket titles you hold, as well as your character "Dud" with Paul Newman and Tom Cruise in Martin Scorsese's Academy Award-winning film The Color of Money.

As a commentator, author, tournament promoter, tournament director, video instructor, exhibitionist, and player, you are truly the whole package.

Enjoy your new pool room. Hope to see you there someday soon. Coming from me, I know this may sound strange, but I wish you didn't serve alcohol! :D

JAM
 
JAM said:
Grady, sometimes these forums can be like the old jingle, "My dog's bigger than your dog. My dog's bigger than yours. My dog's bigger 'cause...."

You are in the autumn of your life, and there is no way anybody can play pool at the same caliber in their sixties as they did when they were younger.

One thing for sure, nobody can ever take away those four one-pocket titles you hold, as well as your character "Dud" with Paul Newman and Tom Cruise in Martin Scorsese's Academy Award-winning film The Color of Money.

As a commentator, author, tournament promoter, tournament director, video instructor, exhibitionist, and player, you are truly the whole package.

Enjoy your new pool room. Hope to see you there someday soon. Coming from me, I know this may sound strange, but I wish you didn't serve alcohol! :D

JAM
Click to expand...

I agree, no doubt Grady's reputation is secure at all aspects of the game you listed.

Also, I love reading these guys (Freddy, Jay, Billy, Grady) comment as to how it was in the past. When they come to one another's side to offer backup, often it is buffered by sticking a few subtle (or not so!) needles in with the mix. When Jay said there were 'only' 10 to 15 players that spotted Freddy at Banks, I felt that needle all the way down here in Texas!:) :)
 
Last edited:
punter said:
I agree, no doubt Grady's reputation is secure at all aspects of the game you listed.
Click to expand...

One thing I have noticed about pool forums is there always is a lot of who's the best at this this and that, and most times, it depends on the AGE of the poster, as well as the region where they live.

To illustrate my point -- and I hope I don't get bashed on this -- there is not a pool player alive who could have beat Keith McCready on the bar box when he was in his prime. Since this era, new bar box champions have emerged, one being David Matlock, another Shannon Daulton, Bobby Pickle, and a host of others. Some of younger pool folk, as well as those who never left their region of the country to witness other players, will always have their favorites. After many hours of research on the topic of bar table mechanics, in particular, I will stand by my choice of who I think was the best bar table player ever. :D

punter said:
Also, I love reading these guys (Freddy, Jay, Billy, Grady) comment as to how it was in the past. When they come to one another's side to offer backup, often it is buffered by sticking a few subtle (or not so!) needles in with the mix. I loved it when Jay said there were 'only' 10 to 15 players that spotted Freddy at Banks. I felt that needle all the way down here in Texas!:) :)
Click to expand...

Those are all veterans in the pool industry, and whatever words they write on this forum should always be looked upon as priceless pool gems.

JAM
 
They Called Me Alot Of Things

DeadPoked said:
WOW! 20 ahead for 20K. Adjusted for inflation in todays economy that's nearly $100,000. At first I read it thinking it was a race to 20 and I couldn't figure out why Billy wouldn't take that game when he wanted the 8 first.
Then I read it again and realized it's a 20 ahead.
Slight difference!
Click to expand...


It's not a slight difference, it's a BIG difference. In an ahead race, you can watch your 4 games on the wire evaporate, never to be seen again...
Doug
( my spots used to evaporate so fast, they called me Carnation Milk ) :)
 
The real Popcorn

JAM said:
I'm sure there are Popcorn varieties, meaning more than one.

I heard a tale of one Popcorn, many moons ago, taking a sock with pool balls in it and slamming some guy in his face because he was talking during the time when Popcorn was playing a heated match. :o

JAM
Click to expand...

(I was there to sweat it, JAM.)

John Popcorn Miller.
Corn and I were hanging out at the Rack in Detroit and he was playing somebody, and this ex-fighter, sweator kept sticking his nose in the Corn's game. The guy was a real pain and he did it to everybody. He would snitch if the guy slept a ball, tell the guy to quit, that he had a bad game, call fouls etc. He got away with it because of his fighter status. Corn warned him and said he would have a surprise for him the next day if he didnt stop his act. That slowed the sweator down not a step. The next day Corn came in with a long sock with a cue ball inside and he went up to the hog and bopped him over the head. It didn't stop the hog from being a pain in the ass to other pool players but it did keep him away from the rest of Popcorn's games. Philly's Joel Marx eventually went outside with the guy and gave him a beating for the same reasons.

the Beard
 
Grady said:
If I do any more serious gambling it'll be in my new place. I don't mean to denigrate or insult anyone. The truth is though, that everybody knew I'd play anybody in the world even up One Pocket from say, 1980 to 1993. Now I'm not saying I would have won, just that I liked myself a lot playing anyone even. And EVERY time I played good or great then at One Pocket, I won, just that simple. I also went regularly to other player's home courts and defeated them.
To finish up with Billy, he's been an A-hole all of his life. He has won like 95% of the times he's gambled and he's not pleasant to play with, just ask Ike if you don't believe me.
In Baltimore, I was really tired, having played Bugs for 10 hours and Billy for another three but the biggest and only reason I quit that night was that, as always, family comes first and I needed the money.
Keith, Cole Dixon, Ritchie Florence, etc.,were much better action for anyone than the likes of a Cardone.
As for the past, look, I defeated Ronnie Allen, Bugs, Romburg, Artie, Parica, Efren, Eddie Taylor, Jersey Red, and a host of other greats, playing even up One hole. Can Billy say that he beat even one of the aforementioned giants playing even? Of course not!!! Give me a break. I won four World One Pocket titles and after every one of those the bank was open, if anybody wanted to play.
I will admit that in the nineties my game hasn't been what I would've liked. As I write these words I'm working hard on my game but I don't know that I'll regain the ability or confidence I once had. But if I do decide to do something with any Cardonelike opponent, meaning someone near my age, it'll have to be a 30 hour session. What's the point of keeping myself in shape if I don't try to use that to my advantage?
Click to expand...

Grady,

Settle down, you started your post by saying you don't want to denigrate or insult anyone,then you proceed to reference me as ALWAYS has been an A-hole, ask Ike. Have I ever referred to you (at any time)any thing other than being an excellent player or a champion? I have never mentioned your name in a derogatory way,have I? I'm 63 years old and have been playing pool for 48 years,45 as a professional,minus 15 or so years in retirement. My reputation precedes me,as does yours. Incidentally that was a long list of people you mentioned that would concur with your assessment of my character. Freddie can defend me on this, he was there when I played Ike. Okay Freddie heres your chance to pick up some points,just tell it like it was.Grady in regard to you and I playing some more one pocket , I guess that there's very little chance of that considering your terms.I thought that since you opened your room that you would work yourself into better stroke than you were in ,the last time we played.By the way i've always liked you as a person/player with the exception of the times when you became a little difficult, usually resulting from an ego based issue. Good luck with your room,on the square, Bill Incardona
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top