Your interpretation of what I stated is interesting.
Lots of words and stuff.
But no, not what I said at all. I will however give an @ for absurd.
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Real Pool Reality Show crowdfunding
- Thread starter jimM
- Start date
Your interpretation of what I stated is interesting.
Lots of words and stuff.
But no, not what I said at all. I will however give an @ for absurd.
I understand what you're saying. I, too, will sometimes frequent the other sub-forums, e.g., NPR, Action,Tournaments, et cetera, and one is able to find a good read every now and then filled with nuggets of wisdom. :smile:
As far as the pros posting on AzBilliards, most realize that this forum is *not* a good place for them to express their thought. Those that do soon leave after threads like this erupt. "Good riddance," some might think. For those who do enjoy reading about a professional player's thoughts, see photos, or trip reports, Facebook (FB) has replaced AzBilliards in that regard. Some pros post on a daily basis on FB.
My pool friends on FB are social shooters, industry members, league players, instructional book authors, professional photographers, fourth estate, and pro players. I do enjoy reading a variety of topics pertaining to pool on FB. Of course, pool is not my only reading these days. I don't frequent AzBilliards as much as I used to. I can only take it in short doses because of threads like this, which, of course, are enjoyed by many. And that's okay.
In the end, AzBilliards was created to be a place for pool players in Arizona to congregate, and it expanded into an international pool forum. Sponsors may think this is a good place to advertise their wares, as well as the OP of this thread, believing AzBilliards' readers might be interested in his project. AzBilliards will be here and continue to thrive. People will come and go, as do interests in life. There was a time that a day never went by that I didn't post on this forum, but I have discovered there's a whole world out there filled with rich pool reading that is interesting, fun, and informative. I hope you continue to enjoy your AzBilliards experience and that it is everything that you want it to be. :yes:
I call em as I see em
jimM,
I thought I saw somewhere you said, that, you have cameras and video production abilities. My thinking on this would have been to set-up shop on a table somewhere and offer for $10 to “shoot too qualify” series for a slot to chase the grand prize. With video of all the match’s, story lines would develop to the finale of the season.
Yes, there are many ingredients, things to pull together to complete such an attraction and that is called work, if you like what you’re doing then it will show. The content of the show… umm, ah …that is the demand being placed here in this thread. Try not to take it personal however; the content of the show will require it, personalities of “The Game”, the question in search of an answer is what the game is?
I thought I saw somewhere you said, that, you have cameras and video production abilities. My thinking on this would have been to set-up shop on a table somewhere and offer for $10 to “shoot too qualify” series for a slot to chase the grand prize. With video of all the match’s, story lines would develop to the finale of the season.
Yes, there are many ingredients, things to pull together to complete such an attraction and that is called work, if you like what you’re doing then it will show. The content of the show… umm, ah …that is the demand being placed here in this thread. Try not to take it personal however; the content of the show will require it, personalities of “The Game”, the question in search of an answer is what the game is?
Interesting
It's an interesting idea. Thanks for the post. The teams will ultimately be headed to a finale.
It's an interesting idea. Thanks for the post. The teams will ultimately be headed to a finale.
Answer
Apparently you are the person who did the Tar tapes. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
Let me start with this: Everyone says it's the same old thing before they ever see it. How do you know what it is until you see it?
Reality shows are all over the place some are long runners and others die in a season. That has nothing to do with a new one. Who would know that a show about looking at peoples junk in their cellar would last for 10+ years.
The reason that this turned into a shitshow as you put it is that the haters refused to hear that this was just an attempt to sell video streams. I said it repeatedly, but they kept coming back with "charity". The crowdfunding platform is just an easy way to do it. If you are a hater and you want to keep downing something, you keep up a lie so it fits your argument. My problem with all haters is not that they don't like something, it is that they relentlessly try to prevent others from being interested in it. They belittle it so others feel embarrassed if they think it is worthy of their help.
This would be a good place for people to come to get feedback on ideas. But there is a group of haters who have set themselves up as the one and only judge and jury for this forum. If you read some of their posts, it's obvious that they think this forum is only for them and they will push anyone else away who doesn't think like them.
These haters are all Chickens, and I call them that because I offered them a chance to come on the show in a simple video and say what they thought about the show, of professional pool players, and anything else that they have to say. They all chickened out. They would all rather hide behind their assumed forum name and throw rocks in the dark.
I'm sick of it. I used to like this forum as many others did, but it has turned into Watchez's and Mia's forum. If they don't like something they should either say so, or not even bother. To try to poison the conversation is unacceptable to me.
As far as the idea of the show, it is designed to try to get money flowing to pool players, either small amounts or larger amounts. As long as they are willing to do the show, it will have some life. The participants in the show will get a playlist of all the videos. They can offer them to their friends and future fans and will get 80% of the revenue. My feeling is that many of their friends on social media aren't necessarily involved in pool and having them buy the videos to see their friends in them will expand the circle of people who are being exposed to the game. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but that is up to what happens when it is done. It's not for the haters to control. Obviously everything doesn't work and up to now, nothing has worked, But that is the challenge.
Your idea about the cases is good, but that would only help me if it worked. I'm looking to involve a lot more people.
Let's look at this in a completely optimistic light. The Hustlers actually had 1,000,000 viewers on one of the shows as far as I understand. Well, If one percent of those people 10,000 pre bought the videos to this game, the winning team of the match would get $64,000 and the players would each get $8000. The losing team would get $16,000, and each player would get $2000 for a 2 hour game. Obviously, this isn't going to happen soon, or maybe never, but it is something that I would like to see happen. It would make cross country travel possible and anything any other professional team does possible. Well, according to the haters, it will be stupid. But to me, that is the goal.
Jim
Apparently you are the person who did the Tar tapes. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
Let me start with this: Everyone says it's the same old thing before they ever see it. How do you know what it is until you see it?
Reality shows are all over the place some are long runners and others die in a season. That has nothing to do with a new one. Who would know that a show about looking at peoples junk in their cellar would last for 10+ years.
The reason that this turned into a shitshow as you put it is that the haters refused to hear that this was just an attempt to sell video streams. I said it repeatedly, but they kept coming back with "charity". The crowdfunding platform is just an easy way to do it. If you are a hater and you want to keep downing something, you keep up a lie so it fits your argument. My problem with all haters is not that they don't like something, it is that they relentlessly try to prevent others from being interested in it. They belittle it so others feel embarrassed if they think it is worthy of their help.
This would be a good place for people to come to get feedback on ideas. But there is a group of haters who have set themselves up as the one and only judge and jury for this forum. If you read some of their posts, it's obvious that they think this forum is only for them and they will push anyone else away who doesn't think like them.
These haters are all Chickens, and I call them that because I offered them a chance to come on the show in a simple video and say what they thought about the show, of professional pool players, and anything else that they have to say. They all chickened out. They would all rather hide behind their assumed forum name and throw rocks in the dark.
I'm sick of it. I used to like this forum as many others did, but it has turned into Watchez's and Mia's forum. If they don't like something they should either say so, or not even bother. To try to poison the conversation is unacceptable to me.
As far as the idea of the show, it is designed to try to get money flowing to pool players, either small amounts or larger amounts. As long as they are willing to do the show, it will have some life. The participants in the show will get a playlist of all the videos. They can offer them to their friends and future fans and will get 80% of the revenue. My feeling is that many of their friends on social media aren't necessarily involved in pool and having them buy the videos to see their friends in them will expand the circle of people who are being exposed to the game. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but that is up to what happens when it is done. It's not for the haters to control. Obviously everything doesn't work and up to now, nothing has worked, But that is the challenge.
Your idea about the cases is good, but that would only help me if it worked. I'm looking to involve a lot more people.
Let's look at this in a completely optimistic light. The Hustlers actually had 1,000,000 viewers on one of the shows as far as I understand. Well, If one percent of those people 10,000 pre bought the videos to this game, the winning team of the match would get $64,000 and the players would each get $8000. The losing team would get $16,000, and each player would get $2000 for a 2 hour game. Obviously, this isn't going to happen soon, or maybe never, but it is something that I would like to see happen. It would make cross country travel possible and anything any other professional team does possible. Well, according to the haters, it will be stupid. But to me, that is the goal.
Jim
Jim can you please list the players that are involved and their rank as a pool player like pro or a C player or what ever they are. Most people have not heard of a lot of these players and these are the people our money will go support. Some background info would be good.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think there should be a video of anyone released to tell you they think it is a bad idea. To call them chickens for not meeting your demands is a bit obtuse. Some of the people, including those you are calling haters, are known off the forums. I know people know Watchez as he has been a long time member and pool fan. It would be impossible for people from here to not know him in person. Same goes for Mia and anyone else. Just because you do not know them does not make it a requirement for a demand of a video of them telling you they do not care for your idea.
As I stated when leaving you positive rep, I completely respect you for your casework and I find you to be a great asset to the pool world in that respect and others. Personally, I'm not a fan of the idea. If it were made available to the public I would probably watch it but I do not see myself spending money for the video. That's just my opinion which I am entitled too.
You brought your idea to a public forum where it is known people use handles in some cases rather then their real names. You should have expected there were going to be disagreements.
This is my last post in this thread. I think it has ran it's course. Regardless of my opinion of your idea, I wish you the best of luck with it and your other future ventures.
Jim - Why should anyone give money to your venture just cause you say it will be different and better? Your promo video is exactly the same as every other Pool Reality TV promo I have ever watched. There is nothing new about it. You have yet to tell anyone why it is such a profound idea. I feel like I am being asked to donate to a walkathon where everyone has their own donation page and if you walk 5 miles you raise the most money.
And your business plan is modeled after Life Insurance sales companies. This is their M.O. They get some kid who came out of college that has a degree but no job. So he is young, somewhat professional and eager to make a go at it. He is enticed to sell Life Insurance with dreams of grandeur on how much he will make. He goes around and sells every relative, friend and fraternity brother he can find a policy. Then he has to really sell and find customers on his own that aren't buying simply as a way of being nice to a friend/relative. Once he fails at that, he is forced to leave the life insurance company and go find a real job. The life insurance company is left with an influx of new business and the cycle is repeated.
You can call me chicken, hater or whatever name you want. I'm a realist. Oh and you don't get to make the rules of 'post a video or your opinion doesn't count'. Start a video forum for pool and you might have something. But this is a written forum you have posted your idea on. Beyond that, Mark Wilson does something good for pool, I stand behind him - even defend him on here. Bflad does something good for pool and I reach out to him to help him. Angel Levine does something good for pool and I give her advice or support her. Mark Grififn does a lot of good for pool and I defend him. He even calls me from time to time for my opinion. (You want my number? You can call me too. You want to have more than a phone call, come to St Louis and we can have a meeting.). Oscar Dominquez and Desiree do something great for pool on the West Coast and I give my advice to them. I could go on and on.
But some case maker with limited or no production experience comes on here with an idea that is rehashed and refailed multiple times, who isn't willing to invest nickel one in his idea, whose chosen players don't even support his idea (3 days gone by since I pointed it out and no mention still on their Facebook pages) and then YES I'm gonna say it is a bad idea.
And your business plan is modeled after Life Insurance sales companies. This is their M.O. They get some kid who came out of college that has a degree but no job. So he is young, somewhat professional and eager to make a go at it. He is enticed to sell Life Insurance with dreams of grandeur on how much he will make. He goes around and sells every relative, friend and fraternity brother he can find a policy. Then he has to really sell and find customers on his own that aren't buying simply as a way of being nice to a friend/relative. Once he fails at that, he is forced to leave the life insurance company and go find a real job. The life insurance company is left with an influx of new business and the cycle is repeated.
You can call me chicken, hater or whatever name you want. I'm a realist. Oh and you don't get to make the rules of 'post a video or your opinion doesn't count'. Start a video forum for pool and you might have something. But this is a written forum you have posted your idea on. Beyond that, Mark Wilson does something good for pool, I stand behind him - even defend him on here. Bflad does something good for pool and I reach out to him to help him. Angel Levine does something good for pool and I give her advice or support her. Mark Grififn does a lot of good for pool and I defend him. He even calls me from time to time for my opinion. (You want my number? You can call me too. You want to have more than a phone call, come to St Louis and we can have a meeting.). Oscar Dominquez and Desiree do something great for pool on the West Coast and I give my advice to them. I could go on and on.
But some case maker with limited or no production experience comes on here with an idea that is rehashed and refailed multiple times, who isn't willing to invest nickel one in his idea, whose chosen players don't even support his idea (3 days gone by since I pointed it out and no mention still on their Facebook pages) and then YES I'm gonna say it is a bad idea.
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First of all, this isn't my forum. I don't have delusions of grandeur here. I don't know 98% of the people on this forum and I'm a-ok with that.
I've been on this forum for over a decade now and I've made some great friends here. But this sure as HELL ain't "my forum", in my eyes or ANYONE's eyes. I'm just another poster like the other XX,000 members here.
What I find SUPER interesting about this post of yours is the line highlighted above. I didn't think your idea had legs. So I said that I didn't like it. You, in turn, acted like a 4 year old, calling myself and anyone else who felt the same haters and chickens and whatever else you could think of.
WTF purpose would a video solve?!?! I'll tell you what you want to know right now. My name is Brian. I'm 40 yrs. old. Married father of 2. I live in NY and am a libra. I like long walks on the beach and some entertaining television shows. And THIS idea of yours would likely NOT fall into that category. Why? Because it looks no different. The promo video you showed off makes this look like... just another reality show about pool. It's similarly titled to one of the other reality shows about pool that ain't that great. It stars some of the same people (also, not a plus).
If you want to convince people that this idea is amazing and that it could really work... if you want to convince them that what your doing is 1) different than the rest; 2) better than the rest, you need to do just that. You failed to though. Instead, you said "Watch this video about my new show... that looks just like that older show that wasn't a huge hit. Then give me money so you can get a special stream."
Find me one person out there who thinks that's a fantastic pitch and I'll show you a moron. (HINT: They will be the same person).
Again Jim, grow up. If you don't want criticism or opinions, don't approach them with a crowdfunding pitch while selling what looks to be the same-old same-old. What's really alarming here is that most everyone on this thread can see this. It's plain as day. And yet you are completely and utterly blind to it. You keep saying stupid sh!t like "How can you be so sure this is the same as the others?!" Well, if you want people's money, YOU have to SHOW them how it's different. Yet you haven't. You just want us to believe and send money.
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I have no interest in being on your reality show. If you'd like feedback, I will give you honest feedback. You can call me a chicken if that makes you feel good, but we both know i'm far from that. I don't hide behind a name, Cleary is my last name and what my friends call me. You know exactly who I am, you've known me for years.
This is total fantasy land. If I decided I wanted to start making cue cases and said, "The APA has 250,000 members, if I could just sell to 20% of them at $200 case, I'll make$10,000,000", you would giggle. How many times are you going to try the same bad idea before you realize it won't work?
I am really shocked at homw much hate is going on in this post. I don't really love crowd funding myself, or donate to send me to a tournament threads, but this one is being blown way out of proportion.
First, all he is doing is offering a video of these matches for a somewhat reasonable fee to people who like to watch pool. Its not like you will be risking or donating your money with the possibility to come away with nothing. Maybe a crowd funding page wasn't the way to go, and a link to a place where the video can be purchased would have been better, but its not like he is stealing people's money here.
Second, all I have seen Jim try to do is help the game using his own talents. If you don't like his ideas, there are constructive ways to say it. He certainly asked for our toughts, but I don't understand why anyone would bash this guy. People complain all the time on here about the problems with pool, and when someone legitimately tries to help, he is getting hammered. He has made it clear that most of the money goes to the players also.
I am not saying that this is a good or bad idea. I just don't get the negativity towards Jim.
First, all he is doing is offering a video of these matches for a somewhat reasonable fee to people who like to watch pool. Its not like you will be risking or donating your money with the possibility to come away with nothing. Maybe a crowd funding page wasn't the way to go, and a link to a place where the video can be purchased would have been better, but its not like he is stealing people's money here.
Second, all I have seen Jim try to do is help the game using his own talents. If you don't like his ideas, there are constructive ways to say it. He certainly asked for our toughts, but I don't understand why anyone would bash this guy. People complain all the time on here about the problems with pool, and when someone legitimately tries to help, he is getting hammered. He has made it clear that most of the money goes to the players also.
I am not saying that this is a good or bad idea. I just don't get the negativity towards Jim.
I am the guy who did the TAR events. So I have an idea of the market for selling pool content. All I will say is your idea of 10,000 people paying for any type of pool content is the same as saying you are going to have lunch on Mars. Theoretically possible but extremely unlikely. Thats just my experience selling live and recorded content with the best players on earth for the last nine years. Doesnt mean you cant do it but the numbers you toss around are based in optimism not realty. So calling people who know this haters is just not true. They are not hating. They are telling you the truth.
I know personally most of the "haters" in this thread. All have done more for pool through various means than most. Either through giving their time, money or support. They are not just shrill voices on the internet. There are a whole lot of stupid ideas and weird people in this forum. The ones you are calling hater are some who over the years have proven to be some of the smartest and know how things in the real world work. Not pool room "It should be..." logic.
Do your thing. Its obvious you cant just brush off dissenting opinions so I dont understand how you plan to handle a show with seventeen players if it actually does get off the ground but thats your nut to crack. Stop wolfing at people who disagree with you and start showing people your product. Talk is cheap. No one gives a shit whats going to happen only what you actually do. Even then they probably wont give a shit though but at least you have something to show besides some posts calling people chicken.
I didn't read through this entire thread, but I saw a few posts that made me think of the same thing when viewing the recent YouTube/genius thread: Maybe the focus/goal should be on producing something with the following priorities a) entertaining b) meaningful c) genuine. If money is your number one goal you're gonna fail. If you somehow don't fail, the product most likely sucks. If you produce something that is the genuine article it will not go unnoticed. Just my opinion.
I agree, I remember one guy wanted to do a Chili Cook off and Challenge match combined. get this he wanted to put it on PPV live all day. SMH
I agree 100%.
He has good intentions and is motivated to do something for pool, pool players with little going back to himself.
No, but our LO has, or did have a bunch of 8 footers in the shop that he wanted out to make space. He was giving them away at one point. I don't think he had many takers or at least I might have hear about it.
I can ask, and if you wanted to rent a trailer and take a drive up to the great White North, you might be able to score yourself a couple or three.
Haha, I was thinking about it. Out door with a Gazebo type cover over it. The War Dept
nixed the idea on me. Likely for the best.
